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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:04 pm 
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... more scratching their nothing in particulari'ies? wild stylee all the while. Ouch, those posts are all so very 19 hundred, 20th century. We all for the changing gonna swoopper blend into the present millenyoomm around ..now. Wuahh


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
No musicians that ever performed in any of Frank Zappa's bands have or ever will be the musician or composer Frank Zappa was.


Maybe so, but quite a few alumni are better musicians/composers than DZ will ever be.


Well those musicians have their own career and websites. We are talking about the performance of FZs music here. Not a single alumni can hold a candle to what DZPZ have achieved. A few on occasion do a sampling of a very small portion of the composers works at a pretty good level but more so they hold a candle to long lost memories in a general aspect of FZs concert performances which surely is by no means the composers standards set forth for his music... In the ball park at best.

DZPZ is setting the standards of live performances of the composers works.
Here are some samples of the finest performances of the composers works to ever be performed since the composer left for his final tour.

Return Of The Son Of...
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/ ... the-son-of

King Kong
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/13

Mammy Solo
This is a solo from Australia 2009.
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/23

This solo above is from one of the premiere shows where DZ was using a Fractal Audio Axe Effects digital guitar processor
Sans Amp directly into the PA. Premiere dictates the beginning of something. Working within the frame work of an FZ composition DZ is creating his own unique guitar air sculpture which no musicians have come as close to FZ in the overall aspect of Air Sculpture Compositions. Yes DZ has been doing Air Sculptures in the D(ZPZ) show since 2006 but it is evolving in so many different aspects just as FZs had it's own path over 30 years of touring. I think in time wee will see Dweezil Zappa Guitar Solo CDs much like FZs Shut Up.... and the likes there of but you will more so DZ the composer in that series than someone who is attempting to mimic FZs guitar performance models. It's beyond the mimic of FZ, it's DZ with a level of Frank inside him that no other guitarist is doing on a night by night basis. After Jimi Hendrix we had Stevie Ray Vauhn. Today we have a boat load of talented guitarists on teh Experience Hendrix Tour doing Hendrix in general as good as we ever can expect a touring Hendrix. DZ with the HEndriz/Zappa Strat shoudl be a part of that some day, bur with FZs music for Rock Ensemble there is only one doing FZs music justice and that is DZPZ.

Just as Frank was giving us 7 to 9 unique solos a night DZ is out there giving us that and more. So many guitarists out there are inspired by Jimi Hendrix, Wes Montgomery or whoever. DZ is out there doing his fathers music all at the same time giving us these DZ air sculpture opportunities where no one except Dweezil is giving us that as FZ had on a nightly basis. Dweezil is taking compositional approach and it is not the same thing every night. We can Leave that to Steve Howe and Neil Schon. I like Steve Howe and Yes I choose that as good fodder fro comparison. Good music but little deviation from the norm night in and night out on tour.

Fractal Experiments
'In 2009 I started testing out some new gear on the road. Some digital guitar effects processors called Fractal Audio Axe Effects. Here are a few front of house reference clips recorded in Japan and Australia. The device offers firmware updates from time to time and the sounds keep improving. These are older tones that I started off with. I'll post some more recent tones soon for comparison.

It will be apples and oranges since I just did a massive overhaul of the rig. It's a science experiment!"
- DZ

http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/ ... xperiments


Trend, I get what you are saying. I do not mean to disparage DZ's talent, because he does do a great job of playing his father's music and guitar licks. It's just to me, Frank could write a "serious" (oh how I hate that term!) piece one minute, then write a "greasy" do wopp love song, followed by a jazzy tune, with DZ I'm not so sure. I can't get into the "sound of today" vs "the sound of 40 years ago" argument as technology has improved the way records are made. I'm sure if Frank were still alive and touring his bands would sound better as well, not to mention his recordings. I thought the idea of DZ playing the music of FZ with special guests was great in the beginning, now it's not such a novelty. If DZ would put out a record of original material with the ZPZ band, I would very much be interested to hear it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:41 pm 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
...


It's too bad that folks today would never understand or even appreciate the cartoon you have at the bottom of your post!

It's too Zappa'ish for even most fans, I think!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Don't forget to listen to Ed Palermo, I gotta believe Frank would love this guy.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
No musicians that ever performed in any of Frank Zappa's bands have or ever will be the musician or composer Frank Zappa was. Some make very good music of their own but FZ was a composer of his work not Steve Vai or anyone else. Pierre Boulez is not the composer that Igor Stravinsky or Edgar Varese was but Pierre Boulez surely can get an ensemble of musicians to perform those composers works better then at any time those composers lived or conducted their own music. When someone studies at Julliard tons of dead composer music is part of the curriculum. Many musicians achieve superior performances than any given composer left us. What the composer did over his canon and recorded works is the standard of what the performance should minimally achieve.


The real issue is that most of them were just "players", and not composers per se ... the rock music crowd is not known for "composers" ... it's just known for who plays the scales better, or faster and can slide the neck faster, or use the most effects ...

Of course, that one of these "kids" can become a composer in their own right, but I doubt that many of them are even trying to do so ... I simply do not think that most of the folks have the internal constitution for "music" that Frank did ... or some of these musicians would have continued doing more and more ... instead of trying to cash in on some fleeting fame.

And while I can appreciate ZPZ, in the end, Dweezil is going to have the same problem ... and he needs to get started with his own material, not just dad's ... or the whole thing will die away.

I am not sure that ZPZ, or Frank's work, can improve in America until there is a sort of anti-commercial backlash ... that is going to get bad press but the more bad press it gets, the more attention (and eventually), and appreciation that it deserves. America, along the way in its hardcore media culture (Citizen Kane anyone ... kiss my rosebud!), needs to get some alternative media going big time, that will not get corrupted by the bigger name, or bought out by the bigger company so it can eventually be shut down, or shut up!

On that magical day, America will finaly develop music history, and art history, other than some Hollywood, or Broadway fucking musicals that you and I are sick of that everyone thinks is the only culture that America has!

With all due respect to anyone ... lilst me the ones that wrote a concerto ... or a symphony ... or something that was not a bunch of radio format'd like songs ... the amount of work out there by many of these folks is so small that it is pathetic ... and it tells you one thing ... that it takes a fucking lunatic that has visions up his head and down his butt, to create something new ... and then have the balls to see it through ... and many of those folks don't even understand it, or have any idea what they did either ... which is another story altogether!

Quote:
It's a matter of not only giving due diligence and but also professional live performance standards, audio systems, recording and playback technologies that are far superior to what was around then....


We probably should re-word that ... to "live performance standards that helped interpret the music better, and closer to our vision" ... instead of it just sounding like another stupid garage rock and roll band that someone is going to call "prog". And this is the worst part of it ... how many clubs here in Portland (for example) which are a fucking dime a dozen, only have a sound system that is better fit for your kids garage band? ... and that is not enough for what you want to do and show with your music ... you have to have guts, balls, and then say ... sorry ... not interested in playing in that place.

You have to have a standard of some sort ... and that standard has to be stood up for ... in one way or another ...

It's not always going to work, but the good musician and artist, will find a way to make it work, and Frank did! And this is not what most of the folks in those bands ever knew or understood ... I think they were way over their heads just trying to keep up as it is ...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Not true
:cry: even frank said save your money don't go to the show :smoke: ya got no friends got no heart this dam song over n over sux dude not true zappa plays zappa is menu for live shows the sound is amazing"" live shows :cry: iiii mean iii mean that not true dude not true :!:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:49 pm 
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babystufforhobostuff wrote:
Not true
:cry: even frank said save your money don't go to the show :smoke: ya got no friends got no heart this dam song over n over sux dude not true zappa plays zappa is menu for live shows the sound is amazing"" live shows :cry: iiii mean iii mean that not true dude not true :!:


Trust me .... there are only a couple of things I would love to see before I rest for good ... and they are:

Klaus Schulze -- will never come to America, or play here

Vangelis -- one of the best ever, but since when is America about music?

Riuichi Sakamoto -- and bring everyone with you, from Iggy to Robert to ... a soprano ...

Zappa plays Zappa -- which I doubt I will see, as Portland is not exactly Zappa land, and the venues here are the suck for a ZPZ ... Rose Garden is too big, and the fancy concert hall is too ritzy and perfumed for it to bring up Frank's work ... and that Alladin thing is a shit hole with lousy sound system that can only play rock and roll! ZPZ would sound horrible in there and then some!

It's ok ... I have enough wonderful memories inside and tears from enjoying the music that I do not have to see them to believe them ... I already believe! ... and I think that is one thing that too many of us rock fans do not have ... and can not get over! ...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Best show I ever? Went to :smoke:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:59 am 
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Wow, MTF, that post of yours on page one was almost scary. You're normally very succinct. :wink:

I realise that was back in March last year, but I only just checked it out and that was my "immediate" reaction.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 am 
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All the whining and bellyaching about the download fail aside, the bottom line is that ZPZ is still one of the finest band or touring musicians on the market today. And that is really all that should matter. If you are going to let your butthurt feelings about some perceived slight or a blown deal for a concert download interfere with your ability to enjoy a killer band playing some of the finest compositions ever written, then your life is worse off for it. I for one, cannot be so childish and petty.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
There's an old cliche about biting your nose off to spite your face.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:46 pm 
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blsabob23 wrote:
All the whining and bellyaching about the download fail aside, the bottom line is that ZPZ is still one of the finest band or touring musicians on the market today. And that is really all that should matter. If you are going to let your butthurt feelings about some perceived slight or a blown deal for a concert download interfere with your ability to enjoy a killer band playing some of the finest compositions ever written, then your life is worse off for it. I for one, cannot be so childish and petty.



Hear, here!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:25 am 
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Not to be unappreciative or critical of what Dweezil continues to due with the band, but yes, I am losing a little interest. The 2006 tour w/Vai, Bozzio,NMB (amazing), the 2007 tour w/ Ray and a 100% new set-list (equally amazing), 2009 Spring still w/ Ray and doing Billy the Mountain (impressive), Fall 2009 and beyond (Ben Thomas and an increasingly redundant set-list).

I still think the band is fantastic, but for me at least, they need to explore some darker corners of the catalog and bring in more alumni and/or special guests to keep it interesting. I like that Flo & Eddie are supposedly doing some shows this year. That will get me to the show and I think they should continue that trend.

I think Dweezil should look at what the Experience Hendrix Tour is doing by bringing in alumni and popular disciples to spread the word. On the upcoming EH tour, the following artists are all performing: Billy Cox, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Living Colour, Cesar & David from Los Lobos, Ernie Isley, Jonny Lang, Keb Mo, Chris Layton (SRV's drummer), Kenny Wayne Shepherd and some others. That's alot of star power on one stage.

Dweezil could do the same w/ alumni (and obviously he's done that already to some extent) but get 'em onboard for a whole tour like he did w/ Vai, Bozzio, Ray, & NMB. Why not try to rope a Adrian, Ike, Keneally, Warren or Robert Martin in for a whole tour. For special guests that FZ has influenced look to the guys from Phish, Primus, Dream Theater, the Tubes, and guys like John Frusciante, Tony Iommi, Bill Frisell, Alice Cooper, George Clinton, and even Weird Al. Make it more like the Zappa's Universe concerts of 20 years ago - a celebration. I even like that name better - Dweezil Zappa Presents Zappa's Universe. I think they can still be successfull going the route they've been going but as a long-time fan it's getting a little stale. They would definitely raise the interest level by throwing us some more twists and surprises.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:04 am 
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Its kindof like going to a familiar restarant. The atmosphere is good but the sauce has changed. Not as good as it used to be but better than anyplace else.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Zoot.....Unoriginal cloned music is better than anything else?

Your initial post was right on. When you caved in to peer pressure you did a 180. If Dweezil was doing this simply to keep Frank's music alive he would be doing it for free in his spare time. I never made a dime turning people on to Zappa. He has the right to make a living off of his dad's music but let's not pretend he isn't in it for the money. It's not a bad thing. It's just not art. It's a carbon copy. Playing someone else's music note for note is not that difficult if you have a lot of time on your hands. Try it! Conceiving that music was the impressive thing. Copying it is pretty much the antithesis of what Zappa seemed to stand for. You want ROXY released? Stop going to see Dweezil. Stop buying all the edited, fucked-with Zappa music he puts out. ZFT manipulates your pure love of the music for their financial gain. Fair enough. They're spoiled by insatiable Zappa freaks. More power to them, I guess. Still, Zappa's music has become Dweezil's playground. It's a little annoying.

"It's not important to be remembered"-Frank Zappa.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:34 pm 
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So bitter and boring Debbie Downer, I guess it’s all in a name.

I agree that more alumni would be a plus and I wish I could somehow get them all to the table to resolve their differences with the ZFT before everyone is gone or incapable of performing, but I have no more control over that than anyone here. DZ and company are constantly adding to their playlist and I see a lot of experimentation and different approaches to the music. I find DZ more recent solo music very good and he could certainly bring his own take to the guitar playing and I am sure the rest of the band is talented enough to add something new if asked. But the ZPZ experience is designed to reproduce and it accomplishes that well. Myself I know a good thing when I see it and will attend ever show that is within my time and budget to do so. Have the you naysayers read the reviews from first time attendee’s and those who have just found the music, I believe the ZPZ thing has done the job they were intended for after seeing those posts.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:47 pm 
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It sounds like DZ has great interpretations of the charts, more on some tunes than others, and it would seem that not having as many alumni as most want is his way of reinterpreting the music. Listen to Dz play black napkins on the zpz DVD, then go to Frank playing black napkins on the torture DVD, back to back ....very satisfying.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Dweezil is a great clonemeister (w/ some suspected help from Scheila and maybe Joe). Dweezil in 2010 would have been a great "stunt guitarist" for Frank in 1980-1988. The only problem is that there is no Frank to step in and provide the "eyebrows". That's where the alumni and potential special guests could help out. IMO Dweezil is not really capable of delivering the "eyebrows". This is not a criticism of DZ, only a suggestion of how the ZPZ experience could be elevated. I'm grateful that ZPZ exists as it is.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:05 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Dweezil is a great clonemeister (w/ some suspected help from Scheila and maybe Joe). Dweezil in 2010 would have been a great "stunt guitarist" for Frank in 1980-1988. The only problem is that there is no Frank to step in and provide the "eyebrows". That's where the alumni and potential special guests could help out. IMO Dweezil is not really capable of delivering the "eyebrows". This is not a criticism of DZ, only a suggestion of how the ZPZ experience could be elevated. I'm grateful that ZPZ exists as it is.


Clonemeister? That's ridiculous. Dweezil is playing things on the guitar that were not written for guitar and were never played by Frank as far as I know. He is far from a clone. And I think he definitely brings the "eyebrows".


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Plook wrote:
So bitter


Have you seen the Zappa interview with Dick Cavett? Did you hear his remarks about punk rock? Was he bitter or was he just expressing his feelings on a subject? In the same interview he slams drunk people. Was he bitter?

Zappa has made some harsh remarks. Maybe he was bitter. Maybe, like me, he's not bitter at all, he's just giving an opinion or expressing his particular tastes. I think you overuse the word bitter and you also use it as a put down. I'm not bitter about Dweezil. I have never been a fan so there's no reason for me to be bitter. I'm just expressing myself. However, if I am bitter about something I don't think it reflects badly on me. Zappa seems bitter in some of his interviews (particularly in the 80's). He seemed bitter about punk on the Cavett show. Hell, he thought punk started in England! Is he a loser because of his apparent bitterness? I don't think so. He has slammed many musicians. He'd probably slam Dweezil if Dweez wasn't his son. Why do I think that? Because Dweezil is touring a nostalgia act! What did Frank say about nostalgia??


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:16 pm 
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dchale wrote:
Clonemeister? That's ridiculous. Dweezil is playing things on the guitar that were not written for guitar and were never played by Frank as far as I know. He is far from a clone. And I think he definitely brings the "eyebrows".


He's far from a clone? What the hell does the word clone mean to you? His whole act is based on Frank Zappa.

Are you a guitarist? Playing things on guitar that were not written for guitar is not that difficult. Hell, I learned great lead guitar ideas from Joe Zawinul. Unless you just suck or are not meant to be a guitarist, it shouldn't be too difficult to play, for example, the trumpet line of any given song. Dweezil is nothing but a clone in his professional show. I see no more reason to be polite about Dweezil's lack of real talent (originality) than Frank did about the musicians he disliked. Dweezil offers nothing but recycled Frank. If he's not a clone tell me who is. His Black Napkins solo owes everything to Frank. As it should.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:53 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
dchale wrote:
Clonemeister? That's ridiculous. Dweezil is playing things on the guitar that were not written for guitar and were never played by Frank as far as I know. He is far from a clone. And I think he definitely brings the "eyebrows".


He's far from a clone? What the hell does the word clone mean to you? His whole act is based on Frank Zappa.

Are you a guitarist? Playing things on guitar that were not written for guitar is not that difficult. Hell, I learned great lead guitar ideas from Joe Zawinul. Unless you just suck or are not meant to be a guitarist, it shouldn't be too difficult to play, for example, the trumpet line of any given song. Dweezil is nothing but a clone in his professional show. I see no more reason to be polite about Dweezil's lack of real talent (originality) than Frank did about the musicians he disliked. Dweezil offers nothing but recycled Frank. If he's not a clone tell me who is. His Black Napkins solo owes everything to Frank. As it should.


I don't want to be as harsh as downer towards DZ but I agree with some of his points. True, Dweezil is playing some things on guitar that were done on other instruments on the original albums and it is interesting to see him do that. Also true, that alot of other technically accomplished guitarists could do the same thing if they were so inclined. That Dweezil does this with love and respect for his Dad I am totally down with and I am glad that he has brought the ZPZ experience to us. I'd love to see P/O but unfortunately they never come out west and ZPZ has played in my area a lot.

What Dweezil does with ZPZ is play the material as closely as possible as the original recording (studio or live). Note for note in other words. True, the instrumentation varies a little bit with Dweezil playing lines that were originally played on other instruments and having to adapt the original material to the players at hand. When Dweezil solos with ZPZ, as I see it, it is a combination of copying his Dad's licks straight away, improvising in his Dad's style, and in more recent tours incorporating more of his own Van Halen-esque licks that he was known for before ZPZ. As such, Dweezil is technically accomplished but not a great lead guitar player. To me, a great lead guitar player is somebody who has there own identifiable style. People like Frank, Brian May, Van Halen, Beck, B.B. King, Wes Montgomery, etc.

As we all know, Frank was always changing arrangements and lyrics when he played live. He deviated from the originals all the time. Dweezil has stated that people who play Frank's music now should only do it like he does it: note-for-note like an orchestra would do with the music from a classical composer. That's a good strategy for Dweezil because that's what he's good at. But that's not how Frank did it and it totally dismisses somebody like Ed Palermo. Palermo does great things with Frank's music. I even saw more of that spontaneity when I saw Ike Willis perform with a small tribute band a couple years ago. To me any Zappa music played well is fine with me.

IMO, ZPZ is an incredible tribute/cover band that plays music that I love and that is pretty sweet in itself.

Note: When I used the word "clonemeister" I meant it in a positive way. "Clonemeister" was the bandmember Frank would choose to rehearse the band and get them up to speed with existing arrangements/recordings before a tour. Then Frank would come in and tweeze things (put the "eyebrows" on). I wouldn't be surprised if Dweezil gets some help in the "clonemeister" Dept. from Travers and Scheila when rehearsing ZPZ.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I have always said that is the missing ingredient in ZPZ, when you saw FZ it was a show full add libs and anything could happen musically or commentary wise, I think the Yellow Snow version on YCDTOSA 1 is a great example of that.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:44 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Not to be unappreciative or critical of what Dweezil continues to due with the band, but yes, I am losing a little interest. The 2006 tour w/Vai, Bozzio,NMB (amazing), the 2007 tour w/ Ray and a 100% new set-list (equally amazing), 2009 Spring still w/ Ray and doing Billy the Mountain (impressive), Fall 2009 and beyond (Ben Thomas and an increasingly redundant set-list).

I still think the band is fantastic, but for me at least, they need to explore some darker corners of the catalog and bring in more alumni and/or special guests to keep it interesting. I like that Flo & Eddie are supposedly doing some shows this year. That will get me to the show and I think they should continue that trend.

I think Dweezil should look at what the Experience Hendrix Tour is doing by bringing in alumni and popular disciples to spread the word. On the upcoming EH tour, the following artists are all performing: Billy Cox, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Living Colour, Cesar & David from Los Lobos, Ernie Isley, Jonny Lang, Keb Mo, Chris Layton (SRV's drummer), Kenny Wayne Shepherd and some others. That's alot of star power on one stage.

Dweezil could do the same w/ alumni (and obviously he's done that already to some extent) but get 'em onboard for a whole tour like he did w/ Vai, Bozzio, Ray, & NMB. Why not try to rope a Adrian, Ike, Keneally, Warren or Robert Martin in for a whole tour. For special guests that FZ has influenced look to the guys from Phish, Primus, Dream Theater, the Tubes, and guys like John Frusciante, Tony Iommi, Bill Frisell, Alice Cooper, George Clinton, and even Weird Al. Make it more like the Zappa's Universe concerts of 20 years ago - a celebration. I even like that name better - Dweezil Zappa Presents Zappa's Universe. I think they can still be successfull going the route they've been going but as a long-time fan it's getting a little stale. They would definitely raise the interest level by throwing us some more twists and surprises.


Totally agree with this post. I really cant see spending my hard earned money again to see a sub par (IMHO) lead vocal. More effort should be put into special guest tours and possibly changing the lineup a bit in general? Id vote for more eyebrows and less accuracy if one had to be sacrificed.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Plook wrote:
I have always said that is the missing ingredient in ZPZ, when you saw FZ it was a show full add libs and anything could happen musically or commentary wise, I think the Yellow Snow version on YCDTOSA 1 is a great example of that.

They ought to get Billy Bob Thornton to do a tour with them. He's a friend of the Zappa's plus he's a musician. I betcha he could loosen things up a bit.


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