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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:10 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Plook wrote:
I have always said that is the missing ingredient in ZPZ, when you saw FZ it was a show full add libs and anything could happen musically or commentary wise, I think the Yellow Snow version on YCDTOSA 1 is a great example of that.

They ought to get Billy Bob Thornton to do a tour with them. He's a friend of the Zappa's plus he's a musician. I betcha he could loosen things up a bit.



Sweet!Hey I saw that Ed Mann post if ZFT has baried the hatchet with Ike, the sky's the limit.... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:52 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
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I think Dweezil should look at what the Experience Hendrix Tour is doing by bringing in alumni and popular disciples to spread the word. On the upcoming EH tour, the following artists are all performing: Billy Cox, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Living Colour, Cesar & David from Los Lobos, Ernie Isley, Jonny Lang, Keb Mo, Chris Layton (SRV's drummer), Kenny Wayne Shepherd and some others. That's alot of star power on one stage.
...


I like the idea ... but who is going to pay for these people to be there and then be able to match their schedules? ... it's a nightmare! And that would mean only one or two shows and hope to record it, and then sell enough to make ends meet ...

I still think that Dweezil needs to make a call ... his music, or dad's ... but ZPZ, as the title suggests is ... about dad ... not Dweezil! Maybe he should call it ... DPZ ... and then he has an excuse to do his own material.

I don't think, however that Dweezil has the sense of humor and personality that dad Zappa had ... and his music would be a lot more towards just fusion than what dad had to offer ... and at that point, I am not sure that Dweezil is going to be as important ... there are too many bands doing that already calling themselves "prog" and the ProgArchives and other locations are chaning it to "Neo-Prog", or "Bruhaha Prog" and some other bullshitty description of the music that will kill it even more!

I do think that the one chance and stroke of luck has to come from some of the material in the vault ... something like ... "Symphonie for Wheelchair, Vesputo Cheese and Strings" ... and it will help Dweezil out tremendously and bring along the tradition of PDQ Bach and Frank Zappa much closer ... and help people appreciate music better ...

There simply are way too many "guitar heroes" out there, and Dweezil is just another one and he doesn't have the magic recording ear around him that can find that one sound, that one note, that one special moment, that will help him become himself ... until then, he's just another guitar player ... doing daddy!

KillUgly wrote:
...
Make it more like the Zappa's Universe concerts of 20 years ago - a celebration. I even like that name better - Dweezil Zappa Presents Zappa's Universe.
...


What I think would work better would be for the local LA Symphony do an evening of Frank Zappa music, with "surprise guests" ... which will be kept secret ... and everyone and the kitchen sink will show up, and on that day ... there will be a lot of tears and appreciation and a recording of the event, will even help the Symphony.

Unffortunately they are wasting their money on over rated conductors that wouldn't know music by looking at a score sheet anyway ...

The interest level can only be raised if a new audience and generation takes to it ... and I'm not sure that we can do this the old fashioned way ... we're getting older and can not exactly all make it to the concert, and some of us can't even hear that good any more!

I don't see it happening ... Dweezil and Gail come from the "rock of ages" and "guitar god" and "rock fan" and "rock music" side of things, and I am not sure they have the ability to see beyond "rock music" and appreciate and understand the art involved in this ... for right now, it's just another major guitar player that could solo better than many other guitar players ... and you and I know that was something that Frank deplored vehemently ... and put down the guitar many times because of it! ... but does thefamily see that? ... I don't think they can ... they are all from the rock music academy of fandom and fame!

It's not even about the music!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Fender Guitars is a big sponsor the Experience Hendrix tours and they only go out for short runs (the one in May is less than three weeks I think). I like the orchestral Zappa thing w/ special guests too. There was a recent thread about one in Canada w/ Ed Mann and Ike Willis. I can't criticize Dweezil too much. I like what he's done and the band is great. I'm glad he's providing this option for the fans. The more Zappa music the better (ZPZ, Orchestras, P/O, whatever).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:10 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Fender Guitars is a big sponsor the Experience Hendrix tours and they only go out for short runs (the one in May is less than three weeks I think). I like the orchestral Zappa thing w/ special guests too. There was a recent thread about one in Canada w/ Ed Mann and Ike Willis. I can't criticize Dweezil too much. I like what he's done and the band is great. I'm glad he's providing this option for the fans. The more Zappa music the better (ZPZ, Orchestras, P/O, whatever).


I'm not criticizing Dweezil ... I'm just concerned that there is not enough he can do anymore ... and his audience is shrinking ... and for this reason, it would be wise to find new material in the vaults that have never been released, and then Dweezil becomes the prime conductor and arranger and what not, and helps cement the legacy ... I'm not sure that another guitar solo is going to help much more is my point.

Fender has an interest in the instruments, and really ... I am not sure they care that much about the music ... and they didn't invite Edgar Froese to come over and play the lead guitar either for at least one song!!! (Purple Haze is in one Tangerine Dream album -- 220 Volt Live).

If the vault wants to help make Frank and Dweezil even better and more important, give us the new works and let Dweezil do them ... but I have a feeling that some stuff in there is so esoteric that even Dweezil can not handle it ... and in that case, he's just another rocker out there, and his ability to be any more than that? Very limited!

I love dearly what he did and is on the DVD ... no question ... now we need the next step ... and it can't be the old step!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:46 pm 
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I doubt that there is much left in the vault in terms of unreleased compositions except for the synclavier stuff and I suspect much of that was never fully realized. Besides who would go see ZPZ play that. Dweezil is not an interpreter or an arranger. What he is is a really good rock guitar player. If there are some quality unreleased compositions they probably belong in the hands of a classical conductor. FZ's legacy is already there to be discovered. Sure, ZPZ helps expose it to a wider audience and it's alot of fun to some of the original FZ fans but Dweezil isn't going to take anything his Dad did to a higher level.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:55 am 
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As I said --

Dark Clothes wrote:
[I would like the ZPZ to release a studio album with the] complete rock band version of Sinister Footwear plus perhaps a few other [instrumental] gems, like Mo's Vacation and the 1988 arrangement of Sleep Dirt.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
As I said --

Dark Clothes wrote:
[I would like the ZPZ to release a studio album with the] complete rock band version of Sinister Footwear plus perhaps a few other [instrumental] gems, like Mo's Vacation and the 1988 arrangement of Sleep Dirt.


That'll bring them running in droves to buy it!

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:02 am 
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Maybe like a man wondering in the desert without food and water we should be happy we found an oasis with some clear clean water and some fruit...instead of complaining we are not eating a 20 course meal at the Ritz.

:smoke:


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:46 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
As I said --

Dark Clothes wrote:
[I would like the ZPZ to release a studio album with the] complete rock band version of Sinister Footwear plus perhaps a few other [instrumental] gems, like Mo's Vacation and the 1988 arrangement of Sleep Dirt.


That'll bring them running in droves to buy it!


Yeah, just like they did in 1968 for Lumpy Gravy or in 1984 for Thing-Fish!

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Maybe like a man wondering in the desert without food and water we should be happy we found an oasis with some clear clean water and some fruit...instead of complaining we are not eating a 20 course meal at the Ritz.

:smoke:

I'm very appreciative that Dweezil has done what he's done with ZPZ and brought this music to a wide audience (whatever anybody thinks about P/O and the other tribute bands their limited touring makes them inaccessible to most people). I've seen ZPZ 7 times in 4 and a half years. The only other bands I've seen as much (about the same number of times) are the Tubes and Joe Satriani, but that has been over the last 25-30 years. So yes, Dweezil broke a long drought of live Zappa music for me (I only saw Frank once). But now, I've probably overindulged. The first 3-4 times I saw ZPZ it was magical (a word I never use with sincerity) with a vastly different set-list and great performances by the alumni. It's not
Dweezil's fault I'm a Zappaholic and I've probably sucked down too much in too short of a time but the fact is the buzz isn't the same as the first few times. It's also a fact that some of the ingredients have been changed since the start and it's just not agreeing with my senses like the first couple of recipes did. At the end of the day, ZPZ is a tribute band, and though probably the best tribute band in the history of tribute bands, a tribute band can only take things so far. I like alot of music and I probably need to balance out my concert menu a little more in the coming months and years.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:29 am 
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KillUgly wrote:
Plook wrote:
Maybe like a man wondering in the desert without food and water we should be happy we found an oasis with some clear clean water and some fruit...instead of complaining we are not eating a 20 course meal at the Ritz.

:smoke:

I'm very appreciative that Dweezil has done what he's done with ZPZ and brought this music to a wide audience (whatever anybody thinks about P/O and the other tribute bands their limited touring makes them inaccessible to most people). I've seen ZPZ 7 times in 4 and a half years. The only other bands I've seen as much (about the same number of times) are the Tubes and Joe Satriani, but that has been over the last 25-30 years. So yes, Dweezil broke a long drought of live Zappa music for me (I only saw Frank once). But now, I've probably overindulged. The first 3-4 times I saw ZPZ it was magical (a word I never use with sincerity) with a vastly different set-list and great performances by the alumni. It's not
Dweezil's fault I'm a Zappaholic and I've probably sucked down too much in too short of a time but the fact is the buzz isn't the same as the first few times. It's also a fact that some of the ingredients have been changed since the start and it's just not agreeing with my senses like the first couple of recipes did. At the end of the day, ZPZ is a tribute band, and though probably the best tribute band in the history of tribute bands, a tribute band can only take things so far. I like alot of music and I probably need to balance out my concert menu a little more in the coming months and years.



Although I liked all the shows and for various reasons, the show at the Crest in the Sac with Ray White was the peak, there is no way around it...there is always the potential for another peak.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:10 pm 
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I don't know anything about the downloading fiasco but you touch on a few things. One, die hard fans may go to the shows each time they come to town and may want to see more obscurity from the catalog, but the coolest thing about ZPZ is giving young people a taste of the music, my first ZPZ show was the second tour, and really regret not seeing the 1st as well, Steve Vai and T Bozzio would have been really something to see. I really loved the movie screen with Frank playing with the band at the end of the show. But planning a show like this to make each fan happy must be very challenging I do like that each show he brings a different band member along, some shows and members are more interesting than others but that is art.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:05 pm 
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dirtytrombonesolo wrote:
I don't know anything about the downloading fiasco but you touch on a few things. One, die hard fans may go to the shows each time they come to town and may want to see more obscurity from the catalog, but the coolest thing about ZPZ is giving young people a taste of the music, my first ZPZ show was the second tour, and really regret not seeing the 1st as well, Steve Vai and T Bozzio would have been really something to see. I really loved the movie screen with Frank playing with the band at the end of the show. But planning a show like this to make each fan happy must be very challenging I do like that each show he brings a different band member along, some shows and members are more interesting than others but that is art.

When you say "he brings a different band member along" I assume you mean alumni. He hasn't had any alumni tour with the band since Ray White left in the spring of 2009. This is when I started losing interest. There have been a couple of one-offs where alumni have sat in with the band though.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:05 am 
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My personal feeling is that the special guests and alumni are a nice addition, but hardly necessary. It is the core of band that makes them so special. They're tight in all the right places and loose enough when they need to be. Sure, they don't have the magic, the spark, the spontaneity of Frank's bands, but then again, NO ONE does. So its hard to find fault with them there. My only reservation at this point is with Ben. I've only seen two shows since he's joined, and while he doesn't suck, I'm still not totally sold. But I'm willing to give him more time to grow with the band and myself more shows to get used to his presence. Unfortunately, between my job and the economy, its getting harder to travel to shows lately and I live in a part of the country where they almost never play.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:41 pm 
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blsabob23 wrote:
My personal feeling is that the special guests and alumni are a nice addition, but hardly necessary. It is the core of band that makes them so special. They're tight in all the right places and loose enough when they need to be. Sure, they don't have the magic, the spark, the spontaneity of Frank's bands, but then again, NO ONE does. So its hard to find fault with them there. My only reservation at this point is with Ben. I've only seen two shows since he's joined, and while he doesn't suck, I'm still not totally sold. But I'm willing to give him more time to grow with the band and myself more shows to get used to his presence. Unfortunately, between my job and the economy, its getting harder to travel to shows lately and I live in a part of the country where they almost never play.
I saw the ZPZ probably at their best in June, '06 with FZ alumnæ Terry Bozzio, Napoleon M. Brock and Steve Vai. I didn't expect the Dweezil ZPZ to continue playing steadily five years later. But with minimal input from Ray White in '07 it still sounded like a band with no frontman as well rehearsed as they were with no stage presence from anyone, sadly, least of all Dweezil. The really crucial difference was that Frank could have had a stage to himself, no musicians, no music but just a mic and he could've filled anyplace with his presence for hours.
In Aug. '07 I saw ZPZ for the last time -- not intentionally because I was straight out sick and glad I didn't buy tix in both '08 and '09 -- but yeah, I wasn't any too enthusiastic the last time in '10 so I just said, "Fuck it, maybe if they're plodding along in the future I might go, who knows?" I'm just not teeming with enthusiasm here! Actually, Ben might be the one to spike my curiosity!

--Bat

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Batchain1001 wrote:
Frank could have had a stage to himself, no musicians, no music but just a mic and he could've filled anyplace with his presence for hours.

That's very, very true... Batty, old buddy! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:29 am 
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I have always said that the band was lacking the FZ variety show factor, but musically they are as tight as you could hope for...The last show they played in Sac in '09 was the 3rd to the last show with Ray White and that performance may have been the best of any tour, they were clicking on all cylinders. I agree with Batty that the first tour with Ray White was a little off but still very good (it could have been that NMB dropped out at the last second therefore leaving all the rehearsing useless), Ray and the band got more in sync with every tour. Batty I hate to say it but for all the effort that Ben puts in and although I find him good, they really are missing something in the singing/front man spot. That being said Scheila has turned into a very strong stage presence and after being at the rehearsal in Reno, I would go so far as to say she is the musical director of the band. The musical component of this band is as close as I think you will get to a FZ experience and maybe one of the best bands currently playing.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:34 am 
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I think Ed Palermo and his band are every bit as tight and offer up great new arrangements to boot.

Check out the Brubeck Brothers now that is a very tight and exciting band .

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Zappa plays Zappa supporting return to Forever on 32 North Amercan shows in august and September...!

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Plook wrote:
I have always said that the band was lacking the FZ variety show factor, but musically they are as tight as you could hope for...


I'm not sure this is good ... or right ... or bad.

I go to a show to hear the music ... I don't go to kiss the star. And if all I see is the star kisses in the first 10 minutes I'm out the door.

I would not even consider, EVER, going to see a variety show ... instead of ZPZ ... and here lies the issue and the problem with this kind of music and what ZPZ is doing ... the legacy that is Frank Zappa is a lot less about the "variety show", than it is about the music ... so ZPZ having to "entertain me" is out of the question, and unfair for me to even consider or expect that!

Strange ... but I'm not one of those too stoned to not know the difference as to why we go to see some music out there ... and too much of it is crap as it is and just popular/social/commercial kissing ... that in my book, and some kind of stupid theoretical configuration ... thinking that Frank's work fits into that area is ... scary! And I certainly don't want to think that is all that Gail and the Trust are wanting to do ... make sure they can cash in on it all!


Last edited by Moshkito on Wed May 18, 2011 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Moshkito wrote:
Plook wrote:
I have always said that the band was lacking the FZ variety show factor, but musically they are as tight as you could hope for...


I'm not sure this is good ... or right ... or bad.

I go to a show to hear the music ... I don't go to kiss the star. And if all I see is the star kisses in the first 10 minutes I'm out the door.

I would not even consider, EVER, going to see a variety show ... instead of ZPZ ... and here lies the issue and the problem with this kind of music and what ZPZ is doing ... the legacy that is Frank Zappa is a lot less about the "variety show", than it is about the music ... so ZPZ having to "entertain me" is out of the question, and unfair for me to even consider or expect that!

Strange ... but I'm not one of those too stoned to not know the difference as to why we go to see some music out there ... and too much of it is crap as it is and just popular/social/commercial kissing ... that in my book, and some kind of stupid theoretical configuration ... thinking that Frank's work fits into that area is ... scary!



I hate to say this but you missed the point and are wrong on so many levels I get exhausted even considerring correcting you on a point by point basis... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:04 pm 
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mistrijah wrote:
Zappa plays Zappa supporting return to Forever on 32 North Amercan shows in august and September...!

I'm getting psyched about this tour despite my whining about losing interest and bitching about Ben. Seeing RTF is gonna be fantastic, I suspect ZPZ will be playing alot of instrumental stuff, it's gonna be in a real nice venue, I'm bringing my son, and I'm gonna make an effort to good seats. :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Its in todays paper.DZpZ opens for Return to Forever IV,at The Mondavi Center Davis CA. 9/21/11 :!:
.
Who could imagine that it can happen in Davis. :shock: 8) :D

.Edit.Tix are on sale at box office or http://mondaviarts.org

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:32 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Its in todays paper.DZpZ opens for Return to Forever IV,at The Mondavi Center Davis CA. 9/21/11 :!:
.
Who could imagine that it can happen in Davis. :shock: 8) :D

.Edit.Tix are on sale at box office or http://mondaviarts.org

Who could imagine that they'd be freaking out at UC, Davis (my father's alma mater, btw, majored in dairy management during the Great Depression - a true Aggie).


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:30 pm 
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I find it interesting that there is a lot of complaining about ZPZ here, yet I personally have never had the privilege of seeing Frank live (I was born in 89).

I'm grateful of the ZPZ band, and I'm also glad I gave them a chance in 2010 (saw them once in AC, and once in Philly). If it weren't for seeing them I wouldn't be as big as a Zappa fan as I am now. This somehow begs the question...if you really dislike ZPZ, can you at least support them for allowing a larger fanbase for Zappa music?...Or is it wrong for more fans to manifest; Would you rather in 100 years no one know who Zappa is? 95% of the people I know in my age group don't even know who he is, and thats now. The present day. At least ZPZ can expose some of the younger generation to the music. If you're not going to go for some stupid petty reason, at least refer someone younger you know to see the show so that the music can live on.


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