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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:54 am 
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Zoot your my hero!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:00 am 
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Plook wrote:
Zoot your my hero!

Thank you!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:27 am 
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zootallurs wrote:
I believe that other points are view are necessary so we can make the choice to change our minds.

I respect that, and that's one reason for me to be here as well. Plook's vibe in that LOL post was slightly different, and you seemed to suck up to him. That's why I pointed at your inconsistency. But I'm here to discuss Zappa, so let's leave it at that.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
zootallurs wrote:
I believe that other points are view are necessary so we can make the choice to change our minds.

I respect that, and that's one reason for me to be here as well. Plook's vibe in that LOL post was slightly different, and you seemed to suck up to him. That's why I pointed at your inconsistency. But I'm here to discuss Zappa, so let's leave it at that.


I don't "suck up" to anybody. Perhaps I just liked what he said, but as you've stated, we're here to discuss Zappa. It's all good! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:58 pm 
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zootallurs wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
zootallurs wrote:
I believe that other points are view are necessary so we can make the choice to change our minds.

I respect that, and that's one reason for me to be here as well. Plook's vibe in that LOL post was slightly different, and you seemed to suck up to him. That's why I pointed at your inconsistency. But I'm here to discuss Zappa, so let's leave it at that.


I don't "suck up" to anybody. Perhaps I just liked what he said, but as you've stated, we're here to discuss Zappa. It's all good! :lol:



A lot of posters could learn from you Zoot, they take themselves far too seriously and seem aloof, can't we just have a little fun here?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Plook wrote:


A lot of posters could learn from you Zoot, they take themselves far too seriously and seem aloof, can't we just have a little fun here?


What fun is fun? Seriousness all the time!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:15 am 
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For me, Frank wrote the best music of the 20th century and nothing half as good has appeared since then.
Seeing the ZPZ playing this music was one of the best things that happened in my life, for I never had the chance to see Frank himself.
Well, this music just can't die, it's too beautiful. The problem is that it's so unusual for average ears, it needs training and as Dweezil said it "It's all about exposure".
Let it be heard, let it be seen, it's all you've got to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:36 am 
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ZackGlickman wrote:
For me, Frank wrote the best music of the 20th century and nothing half as good has appeared since then.
Seeing the ZPZ playing this music was one of the best things that happened in my life, for I never had the chance to see Frank himself.
Well, this music just can't die, it's too beautiful. The problem is that it's so unusual for average ears, it needs training and as Dweezil said it "It's all about exposure".
Let it be heard, let it be seen, it's all you've got to do.

What a load! This kind of snobbishness is exactly what Frank got as a composer early on, in that "serious" composers would question his background and training. Frank turned a LOT of non musically trained folks onto classical compositions and the people who frequented his shows were for the most part non-musically trained fans who were fanatic about Frank's work. But since you never had the pleasure of seeing him live it's not the same thing as Dweezil, take my word for it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:55 am 
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bob r wrote:
ZackGlickman wrote:
For me, Frank wrote the best music of the 20th century and nothing half as good has appeared since then.
Seeing the ZPZ playing this music was one of the best things that happened in my life, for I never had the chance to see Frank himself.
Well, this music just can't die, it's too beautiful. The problem is that it's so unusual for average ears, it needs training and as Dweezil said it "It's all about exposure".
Let it be heard, let it be seen, it's all you've got to do.

What a load! This kind of snobbishness is exactly what Frank got as a composer early on, in that "serious" composers would question his background and training. Frank turned a LOT of non musically trained folks onto classical compositions and the people who frequented his shows were for the most part non-musically trained fans who were fanatic about Frank's work. But since you never had the pleasure of seeing him live it's not the same thing as Dweezil, take my word for it.



I saw FZ (4) times and before I say what I am going to say let me qualify it with the fact that although I knew FZ's music was special after seeing him you knew it was more than just that, the other really attractive thing was the show that went with a live event made every performance special.

Now because ZPZ is trying to simulate the music I believe they may more consistently get a clean rehearsed version of a particular performance of a song, therefore the quality of the performance may possible surpass those of an FZ shows.

Now the down side, FZ and his band were in the moment making almost every performance a unique entity unto itself and the YCDTOSA series shows this, also FZ’s exploratory surgery on the guitar also guaranteed the uniqueness of a performance. This spontaneity is what has been missing from the ZPZ shows, other posters have pointed this out also. Granted DZ has made efforts to engage the audience more and the band has sprinkled in some of the showmanship, but FZ was like a ringmaster at a circus and that is what DZ lacks.

Let’s hope with time and growing more comfortable with the audience he will master that role enough to give the shows a more “variety hour” feel like his Dad did. I will say he has began to meander on the guitar into some “sculpture” like areas as his father did and that area shows a lot of promise.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:53 am 
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I'm losing interest in my 401K :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:27 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
I'm losing interest in my 401K :cry:

Lol! Good one!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:38 pm 
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bob r wrote:
ZackGlickman wrote:
For me, Frank wrote the best music of the 20th century and nothing half as good has appeared since then.
Seeing the ZPZ playing this music was one of the best things that happened in my life, for I never had the chance to see Frank himself.
Well, this music just can't die, it's too beautiful. The problem is that it's so unusual for average ears, it needs training and as Dweezil said it "It's all about exposure".
Let it be heard, let it be seen, it's all you've got to do.

What a load! This kind of snobbishness is exactly what Frank got as a composer early on, in that "serious" composers would question his background and training. Frank turned a LOT of non musically trained folks onto classical compositions and the people who frequented his shows were for the most part non-musically trained fans who were fanatic about Frank's work. But since you never had the pleasure of seeing him live it's not the same thing as Dweezil, take my word for it.


I was not speaking about "musically trained ears", just used to hear something different.
And I'm sure that I would have enjoyed a lot more a show with FZ, but...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:41 am 
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Plook wrote:
bob r wrote:
ZackGlickman wrote:
For me, Frank wrote the best music of the 20th century and nothing half as good has appeared since then.
Seeing the ZPZ playing this music was one of the best things that happened in my life, for I never had the chance to see Frank himself.
Well, this music just can't die, it's too beautiful. The problem is that it's so unusual for average ears, it needs training and as Dweezil said it "It's all about exposure".
Let it be heard, let it be seen, it's all you've got to do.

What a load! This kind of snobbishness is exactly what Frank got as a composer early on, in that "serious" composers would question his background and training. Frank turned a LOT of non musically trained folks onto classical compositions and the people who frequented his shows were for the most part non-musically trained fans who were fanatic about Frank's work. But since you never had the pleasure of seeing him live it's not the same thing as Dweezil, take my word for it.



I saw FZ (4) times and before I say what I am going to say let me qualify it with the fact that although I knew FZ's music was special after seeing him you knew it was more than just that, the other really attractive thing was the show that went with a live event made every performance special.

Now because ZPZ is trying to simulate the music I believe they may more consistently get a clean rehearsed version of a particular performance of a song, therefore the quality of the performance may possible surpass those of an FZ shows.

Now the down side, FZ and his band were in the moment making almost every performance a unique entity unto itself and the YCDTOSA series shows this, also FZ’s exploratory surgery on the guitar also guaranteed the uniqueness of a performance. This spontaneity is what has been missing from the ZPZ shows, other posters have pointed this out also. Granted DZ has made efforts to engage the audience more and the band has sprinkled in some of the showmanship, but FZ was like a ringmaster at a circus and that is what DZ lacks.

Let’s hope with time and growing more comfortable with the audience he will master that role enough to give the shows a more “variety hour” feel like his Dad did. I will say he has began to meander on the guitar into some “sculpture” like areas as his father did and that area shows a lot of promise.


I agree with you. When I went to see Frank (4 times between 1975 - 1984), there was a special feeling in that you never know what might happen - a surprize guest, the secret word for the evening and audience participation, etc. With ZPZ I only had that feeling the first 2 tours 2006-2007. Dweezil has a talented band and they play Frank's music well, but it DOES lack the spontaneity of a Frank Zappa show. When Frank performed he might, all of sudden break into "Louie Louie" followed by a reggae beat, only to play something in an odd time signature. With Dweezil, its like "this is how it was played on the record, so the band will play it that way", although he is starting to improvise some what. Frank knew how to interact with his audience while DZ seems uncomfortable in that role. Frank was a ringmaster, Dweezil is the band leader. To me that is the difference. I do realize that you really can't compare Dweezil concerts to Frank's, simply because ZPZ is a tribute act, whether you care to admit it or not and Frank was a true original.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:14 am 
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zootallurs wrote:
I agree with you. When I went to see Frank (4 times between 1975 - 1984), there was a special feeling in that you never know what might happen - a surprize guest, the secret word for the evening and audience participation, etc. With ZPZ I only had that feeling the first 2 tours 2006-2007. Dweezil has a talented band and they play Frank's music well, but it DOES lack the spontaneity of a Frank Zappa show. When Frank performed he might, all of sudden break into "Louie Louie" followed by a reggae beat, only to play something in an odd time signature. With Dweezil, its like "this is how it was played on the record, so the band will play it that way", although he is starting to improvise some what. Frank knew how to interact with his audience while DZ seems uncomfortable in that role. Frank was a ringmaster, Dweezil is the band leader. To me that is the difference. I do realize that you really can't compare Dweezil concerts to Frank's, simply because ZPZ is a tribute act, whether you care to admit it or not and Frank was a true original.


When it comes to "In The Moment" basically some people have no clue as to what they are saying and hearing be it if is 1981 or 2010. The long time Zappa fans are more in tune with the show to show changes as a historian from studying Official Catalog & AUD tapes than what they were comprehending in the middle of a show when it was happening. The where is Ike Willis complaints Halloween 81 showed me enough how fans were clueless to those difficult arrangements with Steve Vai in the band and how far Frank had come with a Rock & Roll ensemble. I had to witness Midget Sloatman talk to people asking fans if they actually witnessed what Steve Vai was doing or if they were lost in the Ike Willis' knitted hat ideology. Today I ask myself if some of these same fans are lost in the Ike Willis Crack Pipe Ideology.

1981 Halloween at the Palladium had none of the 1978 & 1973 Audience participation elements but it sure had tons of FZs serious music elements. Never in 1981 did I say where is an Ike Willis "Hi Ho Silver". I am not saying that some of the fans did not recognize secret words, Louie Louie or a little indulgence in Stravinsky's Histoire du soldat at any given show of any given tor but more fans than not at the time were there for the Dinah-Moe Humm and familiarity than some in the community think. Dweezil feels less of a need to have to play Dinah-Moe Humm than FZ ever had to keep a set of fans who paid for a ticket to go home hearing what they wanted to hear. There has not only been variant forms of Audience Participation that even FZ gave up on for many tours buut when DZPZ does Audience Participation I don't compare it to FZ shows that had it or did not. It is something that on occasion was part of what FZ was doing. Factually speaking Dweezil is throwing in "tribute quotes" on a nightly basis to Randy Rhoads and just how many Zappa fans realize that when it is happening. DZ conducts the band, Sorry if there is not enough Louie Louie quotes for anyone's ejectamenta quotients. With more and more tours more and more of every aspect of FZs canon is delved into. Frank did so many things over so many tours. DZPZ has toured for 4 years and no one has ever sounded this good or dug this deep into FZs canon. It continues to evolve sounding far better than many of FZs performances and records. 2010 just keeps bringing so much more of that evolutionary path that has always been done as Authentically as possible.

Plain and simple the 4 year touring adventure is not represented in mass quantities for anyone to do a critical analysis yet.
I have seen them over 20 times and I think I have a better general overview of progress than some but that is just my perspective.
When the CDs & DVD/Blu-Ray projects get released from 2007-2009 then you can add that to your evolutionary analysis.
But then just as 1969 turned to 1970 , 2009 turned to 2010..... and yet but also more variables for deviation. DZPZ just keeps evolving and some fans just do not realize what the hell is happening because they compare a memory of what they happened to see over a small sampling of shows over 4 years to 30 years of FZs musical performance. Dweezil will be taking a Les Paul out this tour. Who knows maybe "Beat It With Your Fist" or countless other arrangements from 1980 & 1981 where FZs played LEs Paul a significant amount of the time will be added to the repertoire. Regardless DZPZ repertoire does contain deviation from the norm. One just needs to use their eyes and ears.

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:03 am 
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If I'd spent $2,000 to see a band in concert, I'd insist they were the greatest thing since knee-pads, too.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:19 am 
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Go play Playground Psychotics Wonderful Wino. That is one exciting arrangement.
DZPZ blows away FZs December 1970 Rainbow Theatre performance and that was as tuned
as ever of that bands performance tenure on that number. So much of the Vaudeville Band material
are many fine examples of how DZPZ is taking FZ compositions and specific arrangements of such to
a level of authenticity that exceeds the composers efforts. If any fan has a problem with that
well they are clueless about FZs intent. Not that FZ thought the Vaudeville band sucked but you know FZ
as a composer wanted that material to sound as good as DZPZ is having it sound today.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:01 pm 
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says you! :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Just remember Frank Zappa was the original and Dweezil wants to expose his father's music to a new audience and that I have no problem with. Whether you have seen FZ once or 20 times, each show was different in it's own way. Dweezil will never be the musician his father was in MY opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:23 pm 
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:06 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Go play Playground Psychotics Wonderful Wino. That is one exciting arrangement.
DZPZ blows away FZs December 1970 Rainbow Theatre performance and that was as tuned
as ever of that bands performance tenure on that number. So much of the Vaudeville Band material
are many fine examples of how DZPZ is taking FZ compositions and specific arrangements of such to
a level of authenticity that exceeds the composers efforts. If any fan has a problem with that
well they are clueless about FZs intent. Not that FZ thought the Vaudeville band sucked but you know FZ
as a composer wanted that material to sound as good as DZPZ is having it sound today.


I'm losing interest in your revisionist agenda. Snore.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:27 am 
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ya, study his contributions for renewal of me vocabulary treasure. He writes some great stuff when he gets off at a tangent, describing contemporaries; like us. Why not beginning a book is a total riddle. When in a future effort mood of ambience, laid back and in a puurfect situation some private ideas'd come in well received. All the infos he knows of could be appearing in a chapter on its ow' ...lol, how to find these on the internet. Ahhhh, a book made into a CD. This here posting's gonna fetch no-one. Me's running, a smile.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:33 am 
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zootallurs wrote:
Just remember Frank Zappa was the original and Dweezil wants to expose his father's music to a new audience and that I have no problem with. Whether you have seen FZ once or 20 times, each show was different in it's own way. Dweezil will never be the musician his father was in MY opinion.


No musicians that ever performed in any of Frank Zappa's bands have or ever will be the musician or composer Frank Zappa was. Some make very good music of their own but FZ was a composer of his work not Steve Vai or anyone else. Pierre Boulez is not the composer that Igor Stravinsky or Edgar Varese was but Pierre Boulez surely can get an ensemble of musicians to perform those composers works better then at any time those composers lived or conducted their own music. When someone studies at Julliard tons of dead composer music is part of the curriculum. Many musicians achieve superior performances than any given composer left us. What the composer did over his canon and recorded works is the standard of what the performance should minimally achieve.

It's a matter of not only giving due diligence and but also professional live performance standards, audio systems, recording and playback technologies that are far superior to what was around then. The Vaudeville Band is an example of those specific arrangements where DZPZ performances are sounding light years better than those recordings FZ released. Franks music will be alive as long as a set of musicians can play it at a level of deserved performance standards.

When it comes to performing the works of a composer who has left us DZPZ has set the mark for this and all future generations.
In the ball park alumni on crack in a bar band does not cut it. It could be a fun adventure, I have witnessed many of their performances
where they lighted a live performance candle I though extinguished long ago. I compare them to an adult pickup ensemble group where people have day jobs and hack it out at local community ensemble unit on the weekend. I am being kind for just as easily the income could be filling the crack pipe. What is important to me is the level of standards. Even if an alumni straightened up and could one day be a part of DZPZ it would be the achievement of that band. They have proved they in no way need any alumni quotient be it if the alumni is a crack head, religious fanatic or as some are factually six feet under ground. Ricky Lancelotti is not going to show up ant any given live performance of FZs music unless he is on a tape.

Please the difference in what these In The Ball Park bands do and what DZPZ does in the difference between in the ball park and professional excellence of the composers work at the highest regards possible. This is April 2010 and we are about to enter the 5th year of touring where The Jammy's in 2006 was their first public performance. I wonder how those keyboard tryouts will go but DZPZ 2010 minimally brings forth DZ performing on a 1958 Les Paul reissue. I can only imagine what tonalities he is going to get out of a Les Paul doing FZs music. Could April 17th with Jeff Beck be a premiere. Hmmmm

"Beat it with your fist, for Chrissakes"

Beat It With Your Fist
The Palladium, NYC
October 30, 1980

Guitar Used Les Paul with DiMarzio Pickups

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:53 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
No musicians that ever performed in any of Frank Zappa's bands have or ever will be the musician or composer Frank Zappa was.


Maybe so, but quite a few alumni are better musicians/composers than DZ will ever be.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:01 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
No musicians that ever performed in any of Frank Zappa's bands have or ever will be the musician or composer Frank Zappa was.


Maybe so, but quite a few alumni are better musicians/composers than DZ will ever be.


Well those musicians have their own career and websites. We are talking about the performance of FZs music here. Not a single alumni can hold a candle to what DZPZ have achieved. A few on occasion do a sampling of a very small portion of the composers works at a pretty good level but more so they hold a candle to long lost memories in a general aspect of FZs concert performances which surely is by no means the composers standards set forth for his music... In the ball park at best.

DZPZ is setting the standards of live performances of the composers works.
Here are some samples of the finest performances of the composers works to ever be performed since the composer left for his final tour.

Return Of The Son Of...
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/ ... the-son-of

King Kong
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/13

Mammy Solo
This is a solo from Australia 2009.
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/23

This solo above is from one of the premiere shows where DZ was using a Fractal Audio Axe Effects digital guitar processor
Sans Amp directly into the PA. Premiere dictates the beginning of something. Working within the frame work of an FZ composition DZ is creating his own unique guitar air sculpture which no musicians have come as close to FZ in the overall aspect of Air Sculpture Compositions. Yes DZ has been doing Air Sculptures in the D(ZPZ) show since 2006 but it is evolving in so many different aspects just as FZs had it's own path over 30 years of touring. I think in time wee will see Dweezil Zappa Guitar Solo CDs much like FZs Shut Up.... and the likes there of but you will more so DZ the composer in that series than someone who is attempting to mimic FZs guitar performance models. It's beyond the mimic of FZ, it's DZ with a level of Frank inside him that no other guitarist is doing on a night by night basis. After Jimi Hendrix we had Stevie Ray Vauhn. Today we have a boat load of talented guitarists on teh Experience Hendrix Tour doing Hendrix in general as good as we ever can expect a touring Hendrix. DZ with the HEndriz/Zappa Strat shoudl be a part of that some day, bur with FZs music for Rock Ensemble there is only one doing FZs music justice and that is DZPZ.

Just as Frank was giving us 7 to 9 unique solos a night DZ is out there giving us that and more. So many guitarists out there are inspired by Jimi Hendrix, Wes Montgomery or whoever. DZ is out there doing his fathers music all at the same time giving us these DZ air sculpture opportunities where no one except Dweezil is giving us that as FZ had on a nightly basis. Dweezil is taking compositional approach and it is not the same thing every night. We can Leave that to Steve Howe and Neil Schon. I like Steve Howe and Yes I choose that as good fodder fro comparison. Good music but little deviation from the norm night in and night out on tour.

Fractal Experiments
'In 2009 I started testing out some new gear on the road. Some digital guitar effects processors called Fractal Audio Axe Effects. Here are a few front of house reference clips recorded in Japan and Australia. The device offers firmware updates from time to time and the sounds keep improving. These are older tones that I started off with. I'll post some more recent tones soon for comparison.

It will be apples and oranges since I just did a massive overhaul of the rig. It's a science experiment!"
- DZ

http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/songs/ ... xperiments

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:20 am 
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..was there just another giggle and aha-effect? yes, methinks. This is going to titilate a lot more. What's more is that one, at being at ease oftener, must be looking for further fair written words of a wise men. Toodle-hoo.


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