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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:07 pm 
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On the latest WTF podcast, Dweezil tells Marc Maron that he can relate to a suggestion from some Italian fans that Gail exhibited something called the Medea Complex. Medea was a character in Greek mythology that murdered her children to exact revenge on her husband. Frank, of course, was very open about "sleeping with" other women when he was on the road. Gail tolerated it and chose to stay with Frank all those years.

While this is the first time I have heard of the Medea Complex it makes a lot of sense. Howard Kaylan suggests a similar concept in his book. Her assertions (and lawsuits) throughout the years against tribute bands, Zappanale, and Rykodisc were so unfounded that you have to question the woman's sanity. Her desire to alienate Frank's siblings from the family is also reprehensible.

Too bad Ahmet is taking up his mother's mantle instead of taking the opportunity to make things right.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:09 am 
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What was it she said to Dweeze ?

" I'm not just some groupie your father fucked "

Um . wasn't she a pass around when Frank met her ?
:?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:47 am 
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Sounds to me that DZ reminded her too much of FZ and she took it out on him. And that shit with her hiding all the info about the will etc... was just plain mental fucking illness.

I feel really bad for him.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:39 am 
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Sounds like she felt controlled by Frank an she turned into a control freak with the kids.
I read somewhere that she said something like " the less Frank and I talk , the better "
Was she hiding everything from everybody ?
:?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:48 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Sounds to me that DZ reminded her too much of FZ and she took it out on him. And that shit with her hiding all the info about the will etc... was just plain mental fucking illness.

I feel really bad for him.

Good point. I was thinking why did Dweezil and Moon get the short end of the stick and why did Ahmet and Diva end up being the favored children. What you said about DZ reminding him of FZ makes sense plus I imagine DZ and Moon had much more reason to challenge her on family issues after Frank's death. You can't get anywhere with a person who thinks that their opinion is the only one that counts. I think Gail was trying to be and enjoyed being the "dictator" after Frank's passing that Frank was during his life with his music. The BIG difference is Frank knew what he was doing.

EDIT: Just noticed Pedro's post which is kind of what I was getting at too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:32 am 
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What the fuck is this? Sub-amateur psychology 101?

I am trying my best not to take side in this fight as I simply do not know what the facts are. And neither does anyone else in this forum. But Dweezil's latest cry-session on Maron's podcast was beyond belief. A grown man dishing out private shit in public about his own mother just months after her passing. He is crying about guitars he was trying to sell some years ago. So much for sentimental values and respect for the stuff that Frank supposedly gave to him. Even if Dweezil is is telling the truth it is below any level of decency to behave the way he does. Ahmet's open letter was about half a notch higher. Maybe. Or maybe not.

Two facts: 1. Dweezil is an amazing guitar player. 2. Unless he plays Frank's music he wouldn't be able to support himself doing it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:57 am 
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Joe Blow wrote:
What the fuck is this? Sub-amateur psychology 101?

I am trying my best not to take side in this fight as I simply do not know what the facts are. And neither does anyone else in this forum. But Dweezil's latest cry-session on Maron's podcast was beyond belief. A grown man dishing out private shit in public about his own mother just months after her passing. He is crying about guitars he was trying to sell some years ago. So much for sentimental values and respect for the stuff that Frank supposedly gave to him. Even if Dweezil is is telling the truth it is below any level of decency to behave the way he does. Ahmet's open letter was about half a notch higher. Maybe. Or maybe not.

Two facts: 1. Dweezil is an amazing guitar player. 2. Unless he plays Frank's music he wouldn't be able to support himself doing it.

It's out there in the public now, Mr. Blow, whether we like it or not. It's hard not to have an opinion about it. Heck, you just expressed a few opinions about it yourself.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:03 am 
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Joe Blow = A Douche

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:41 am 
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The open letters from Ahmet seemed to dry up really quick when Dweezil said that the trust owed him lots and lots of money for merchandising.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:37 pm 
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Joe B, no one but the principals will ever know all the facts. Why does that stop you? As someone said, it's in the public domain now. It's pretty hard not to take a side, although despite your claims to the contrary you have.

I think it's all grist for the mill. If there's anyplace on the net to talk about all things Zappa, this is it.

I feel for Dweezil and Moon as well. It's one thing to have major beefs with your mother. It's quite another to deal her with when she's dead.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:22 am 
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Joe Blow wrote:
Even if Dweezil is is telling the truth it is below any level of decency to behave the way he does.


I think it is below any level of decency to condemn a man for something one cannot possibly understand, something so personal. When you come down off your high-horse, may he kick you in the head.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:01 am 
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[quote="brainpang"][quote="Joe Blow"]Even if Dweezil is is telling the truth it is below any level of decency to behave the way he does. [/quote]

I think it is below any level of decency to condemn a man for something one cannot possibly understand, something so personal. When you come down off your high-horse, may he kick you in the head.[/quote]
I don't think he will. I have had a few conversations with him and found him to be a a very nice guy. Hardly anyone to burst into violence.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:01 am 
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[quote="Ronny's Noomies"]Joe B, no one but the principals will ever know all the facts. Why does that stop you? As someone said, it's in the public domain now. It's pretty hard not to take a side, although despite your claims to the contrary you have.

I think it's all grist for the mill. If there's anyplace on the net to talk about all things Zappa, this is it.

I feel for Dweezil and Moon as well. It's one thing to have major beefs with your mother. It's quite another to deal her with when she's dead.[/quote]


What is in the public domain now? A few fragments of possible facts at the most. Hardly enough to make an opinion of who the idiot bastard son is. If any. Or maybe both. I don't know. Again: I do not know.

I do know, however, that I believe that it is despicable to talk shit about a family member in public. Most especially so after they just passed away. Moon did that when Frank died too so the latest rant from her should not have surprised anyone. It is too bad the parents did not kick the kids out and told them to make a living not relying on their surname, alimony or a weekly allowance. Ahmet got close but then, but then... the grand witch of this forum pulled him back in.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:03 am 
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It's not nice to call dead people names, Mr. Blow. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:06 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Sounds to me that DZ reminded her too much of FZ and she took it out on him. And that shit with her hiding all the info about the will etc... was just plain mental fucking illness.

I feel really bad for him.


You and I finally agree on something. I feel bad for him too.


Fucking with the dead or dying will bring you some bad Juju. Sometimes, pretty fucking quick :!:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:26 pm 
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Joe Blow wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Joe B, no one but the principals will ever know all the facts. Why does that stop you? As someone said, it's in the public domain now. It's pretty hard not to take a side, although despite your claims to the contrary you have.

I think it's all grist for the mill. If there's anyplace on the net to talk about all things Zappa, this is it.

I feel for Dweezil and Moon as well. It's one thing to have major beefs with your mother. It's quite another to deal her with when she's dead.



What is in the public domain now? A few fragments of possible facts at the most. Hardly enough to make an opinion of who the idiot bastard son is. If any. Or maybe both. I don't know. Again: I do not know.......

I do know, however, that I believe that it is despicable to talk shit about a family member in public. Most especially so after they just passed away. Moon did that when Frank died too so the latest rant from her should not have surprised anyone. It is too bad the parents did not kick the kids out and told them to make a living not relying on their surname, alimony or a weekly allowance. Ahmet got close but then, but then... the grand witch of this forum pulled him back in.

In this case, there's a lot in the public domain. Including the legal stuff from courtlisten.com, statements from both sides and supporters, on-air interviews by the principals, etc. You formulate opinions, re-evaluate as more info comes in, and so on. Like I said, grist for the mill. It's not brain surgery, nor weighty world politics. It's an internet forum.

I agree about people bitching about each other in the media. Very distasteful. But there it is.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:38 pm 
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to Ronny's Noomies:

Yes, some legal parts are in public records. But Dweezil never dragged Gail to court over the T-shirt-sales and whatnot so the lion part of what he is crying over is not known. Further, Dweezil and Moon bring forward very personal issues and alleged conversations within the family which certainly is not well documented. Not even in the Vault. That stuff is for family therapy sessions behind very closed doors. Open letters and emotional media appearances are not ways to resolve anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:48 am 
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Do you remember Oakley Hall? When some are more violently partisan than we are, we edge away a little and restrain our own enthusiasms. I think it may be very difficult to discourage a lynching party from it's objective. Protestations seem excessive. Convincing representation is critical, along with a conviction that no one else will notice the flaws. A sensitive person can only shudder at the spectacle.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:12 am 
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:roll: Thanks for nothing. Go back to lurking.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:55 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
:roll: Thanks for nothing. Go back to lurking.


Forgive me, FalseDichotomy. I scrolled back to find your contribution to this thread. I guess this is it. While I would not deny there is merit in telling a forum member to keep quiet and simply observe, in lieu of a relevant statement from you I have chosen to come forward yet again with more words. Which side in this Zappa family tiff would you have me choose? Or, to put it another way, what type of response would you consider to be "something"?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:00 am 
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Trapston Cheesely IV wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
:roll: Thanks for nothing. Go back to lurking.


Forgive me, FalseDichotomy. I scrolled back to find your contribution to this thread. I guess this is it. While I would not deny there is merit in telling a forum member to keep quiet and simply observe, in lieu of a relevant statement from you I have chosen to come forward yet again with more words. Which side in this Zappa family tiff would you have me choose? Or, to put it another way, what type of response would you consider to be "something"?


This is not a football game. I don't care what side you cheer for.

Your original post made even less sense than GZ used to. Good writing is clear writing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:55 pm 
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Trapston Cheesely IV wrote:
Do you remember Oakley Hall? When some are more violently partisan than we are, we edge away a little and restrain our own enthusiasms. I think it may be very difficult to discourage a lynching party from it's objective. Protestations seem excessive. Convincing representation is critical, along with a conviction that no one else will notice the flaws. A sensitive person can only shudder at the spectacle.

Well, my initial response might have been on par with False Dichoctomy but at least you spurred me on to google Oakley Hall. A writer of some sort who died in Nevada City, CA not too far from where I reside. This is probably of little significance but I do like learning new things, especially as it pertains to my neck of the woods.


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