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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Hey Moe! Was I just insulted? :mrgreen:


The fantasy pain theory,thats like if you cut off an innocent persons hand it will follow you until it chokes you to death! Bwaaaa! :lol:

Roy Estrada has been judged and put away for good.I'm not judging him,but the crime.That needs to be fixed,but how? I don't claim to have answers only ideas.Some are good some are not so good.Oy,oy,oy!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:20 am 
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When it's time to change, you've got to re-arrange. Who you are into what you're gonna be.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:59 am 
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polydigm wrote:
The tiger stripes point is an interesting one. If they can't change, then surely that is more reason to have some sympathy for them. Who would choose to be like that? You might as well stand on the African tundra shouting at lions because they can't give up the idea of killing and eating other animals.

And you know, I used to pity FZ for his fairly extreme cynicism about humans in general. If I ever get in trouble, I will probably waive my right to a jury of my peers. The difference between being judged by one man with a proper legal education and 12 people that might end up having opinions like most of the above is weighing up in favour of the former.



I am really astounded at how little some of my fellow forum members understand the nature of these crimes and the carnage they leave in their wake. Some see these acts as having something to do with sex, perverted love, denied Homosexuality (almost choked when I read that), and bad upbringing.

The last one I am sure plays a part in many of these cases, and if we could somehow identify these people at an early age and help them, yes we may be able to change the path they go down. They almost all start young and usually it includes animal abuse, that behavior so deep seated so early in life is really going to be hard to segue out of a person’s personality unless they are caught at that time. Most people don’t realize when they catch little Johnny beating kittens to death with baseball bat at 10 years of age for no good reason that they are probably looking at a sociopath in the making.

Yes I feel sorry that a sociopath ended up the way they did, a violent criminal that preys on the week and defenseless with no regard to their victim and the undo harm they will cause, but by the time they are caught they are what they are.

These are Extremely Violent Criminals who are deriving some sort of perverse satisfaction from what they do, they build a false life around being able to commit these violent acts against their chosen victims, all else that they do and their life is about is a sham. It was put in place in a calculated manor designed in their warped sociopathic criminally insane mind to fool all others so they can trap their victims and heartlessly subject them to a life lasting traumatic experience.

You people really need to get educated on these type of criminally insane crimes, again I encourage that you visit a Rape Crisis Center and a Child Abuse Center and hear from the victims who had to look into the soulless eye’s of these criminals, begging for mercy were none was shown.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:12 am 
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Dis boy have a problem.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:02 am 
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Hey Plook, I don't get why you quoted me but said almost nothing that has anything to do with what I actually said. I certainly don't need a lecture from you about the horror of perverse crimes and the need to take the utmost care to protect our young from human predators, but that doesn't mean I also have to indulge in irrational hatred.

And what's with this need to post everything you say in bold?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:14 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Hey Plook, I don't get why you quoted me but said almost nothing that has anything to do with what I actually said. I certainly don't need a lecture from you about the horror of perverse crimes and the need to take the utmost care to protect our young from human predators, but that doesn't mean I also have to indulge in irrational hatred.

And what's with this need to post everything you say in bold?



I will answer the last question first, I think I am currently on a Bold writing kick, because I have been an artist all my life and have not had a good channel for it lately so I believe it is bleeding in to my use of font, like water, the creative nature will find its way downstream…if that’s not it I don’t know why.

In a preface to answering your first question I must say I like you very much poly, from what you post you seem to be a very intelligent and well balanced individual, I think we could be friends if we met face to face.

I probably should not have quoted you to vent in such a long winded way on this subject. But what got me was this” If they can't change, then surely that is more reason to have some sympathy for them.”

The word “sympathy” got me and I unwittingly drew you in with all the others who want to some how redeem these lost souls, or caudal them into normalcy, and the comments some have made relating the acts to sex and/or perverted love, just make me nuts. Plane and simple these are violent acts that have nothing to do with sexual desire and castration would do nothing to stop them from acting out there violent fantasies.

My wife and I lived in LA for many years we were very popular people who had and went to many functions, we may be slowed down small towners now, but we have known a lot of people, I mean a lot.

I have heard the stories of and known many of the people who were the victims of these violent acts and some of the talk I am hearing on this subject just blows my mind, I consider the forum members here to be some of the most well researched and intelligent people around, but the ignorance on this subject has caught me off guard.

Sorry poly no offence meant, sometimes I just get ramped up…


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:02 pm 
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My point is, that in the end, if we strip away all the bullshit that we manufacture over the top of life itself, we're all animals of one kind or another. If we're born black, homosexual, jewish, sickly white, pedophile, elephant, lion, gazelle or whatever, there was no pre birth forum where we got to choose what that might be.

As far as your apology is concerned, I'm thinking about it. I'm getting a bit tired of people jumping on me without really reading what I'm saying in the first place.

BTW, I've edited the original post and replaced the word tundra with savannah. What was I thinking?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:48 pm 
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2006 documentary on a paedophile whose main interest was in boys:

The Fishermen: A Journey Into The Mind Of A Killer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16ZykVldYbk


And not that I agree (or disagree) with the subject of this, just had to post the faces - yech!!:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... hiles.html


I do think people overestimate the sameness of being 'raised in the same environment' sometimes.
I have seen twins raised and treated consistently differently (by the mother) from birth. Subtle, but unrelenting.

From their early teens the difference in their personalities was astounding (they were identical in appearance).
The one was friendly, affable, even-tempered, 'normal', and well-liked; the other was tense, unpredictable, aggressive, and vengeful (including some animal/child cruelty).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:03 am 
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Thanks Poly for your consideration, and I am leaning towards Genetics myself for the most part but I think Phy makes a good point also, he is actually expounding the Cinderella theory. Which is a parent or other care giver giving preferential treatment to others in their charge, to the point of abuse of the excluded.

I don’t think it’s a simple answer and a combination of things must align in order to have truly evil outcome that these people are. Again I can vouch for the Bad Seed from personal experience, these people have a tendency to come off as friendly and easy going, but when you see behind the curtain, you find it’s all based on a lie.

Maybe its like the Pit Bull they seem fine until their natural instinct and what they were breed for goes off like a switch and they kill someone. Maybe we all have the potential to do evil to others and were just lucky that we are not the one the switch went off in. A kind of original sin left over from some primordial instinct to kill or be killed.

Thankfully most of us don’t have to cross that bridge.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:12 pm 
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The problem with castration is that now they don't even have legal ways of sexually relieving themselves and one can only wonder at what other crimes they might turn to as the ensuing frustration takes over.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:10 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
The problem with castration is that now they don't even have legal ways of sexually relieving themselves and one can only wonder at what other crimes they might turn to as the ensuing frustration takes over.

Good point.In my lifetime,the medical world used to and maybe some still do,think that a frontal labotomy was a cure for all sorts of "mental conditions" that are now easily controlled by new drugs.The thought of housing human vegatables isn't very pleasant either.But that's the way they did it not so long ago.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:49 am 
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Actually the Ducth Catholic church castrated several sexually abused boys in the 50s to "cure them of their homosexuality", without informing their parents of course. Horrible.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:28 am 
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Firstly I've got no answers.

Last century age 7ish I was attacked in a public toilet, I took my fathers advise and tried to run like hell, but was caught, eventually after a struggle I was able to implement plan B whilst lying on my back I repeatedly kicked the man in a region known in those days only as "down there" as hard as I could, I escaped and without a backward glance, ran the 2 miles home in record time, scared, pissed pants, battered and bruised and thinking I was in big big trouble but being a little to young and stupid and certainly uneducated to understand, till quite a few years later, what had and could have happened, I never ever said anything to anybody ever, mums the word. In 1960's tinytown stiff upper lip NZ some things weren't talked about. For chunks of my childhood my mother was in hospital and my father worked his arse off, so there were 3 or 4 hours after school each day where I was pretty much unsupervised, so that day by the time my father got home I was already cleaned up and the scrapes were put down to the usual playing about. (please note: what happened to me then didn't in any way fuck me or my life up, that happened much much later after I married Hellen). It was some 20 years later that the man (well respected local man about town) was jailed for a bunch of historical sex crimes some dating back over 20 years, he did his time, he did it again, he did more time and he did it again. 2010 now In his late 60's he was jailed again for 8 years for yet another bunch of historical sex crimes, it also came to light that in the 70's several accusations were made against this guy and he paid them all off. Over the years I have met people who thought they knew this man very very well and initially did not believe the whispers. They were utterly shocked when his crimes was uncovered, some had exposed youngsters in thier families to this man completely unaware......
I feel for the victims and thier families almost to a man post attack they all suffered from childhoods littered with truancy and petty crime leading to broken homes, followed by an adult life of unemployment due to interupted/unsettled education, addiction's, and ongoing relationship and in many cases mental health problems, the list of the social fallout from this often undetected and unreported type of crime goes on.....

As far as not listening to or watching Franks music as played by Roy.....I'm listening to Franks music, because I love it, Frank wrote it and selected the sick musicians he wanted to perform it. Because I now know one musician was truely a very sick man does in no way change Franks music for me.

Well that's enough of that, normal non serious flippant non serious service resumes now:
I blame music, Roy was exposed to a lot of music, he choose a career playing the evil stuff, the central scrutinizer was absolutely right, if you choose a career in music you could end up in tank C snorting detergent and being plooked (excuse me Plook) by potatoe headed Bobby, a nickname earned not by the shape of the head on his shoulders, but the head in his shorts, I hope they are all out of Anusol at the commissary Roy and if your reading this, don't even think about hugging your imaginary guitar or imagining imaginary guitar notes or imaginary vocal parts.
Roy If only on the right day you had listened to the music of Judas Priest while riding a merry-go-round and cleaning daddys shot gun. The white zone is for loading and unloading.
Good bye Roy, it was nice knowing you, before I really knew the real you.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:15 am 
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Shit. Good on you for getting the boot in. Too bad you were too young to have done more permanent damage to the fucker. I've seen the damage evil shits like that can do to a family and friends. Years ago someone that a lot of us knew was charged with interfering with a minor. That's when the shit hit the fan. Same guy had babysat for other friends of mine for years and their son, at a very brave 14 years old, came forward with his experiences at the hands of their 'trusted family friend'. If the vile fuck hadn't already been behind bars I think there would have been some swift vigilante justice and some decent people would have been put in jail. Not only did it destroy a famly unit but it caused a huge rift through the middle of a group of close friends because there were some who just couldn't come to grips with the fact that a friend of theirs was a pedo.

There's no legally sanctioned justice that can fix something like that. Not in this country anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:57 am 
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Some secret(?) clues from FZ's oevre that early on he could at least have been aware of some RE sexual behavior specialities:

- Afternoon Of A Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
- Right There
- dedication to Roy during the outro of Illinois Enema Bandit on ZINY (I always wondered about this)
- rubber doll episode in BS

Some more?

Th.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:11 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Some secret(?) clues from FZ's oevre that early on he could at least have been aware of some RE sexual behavior specialities:

- Afternoon Of A Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
- Right There
- dedication to Roy during the outro of Illinois Enema Bandit on ZINY (I always wondered about this)
- rubber doll episode in BS

Some more?

Th.



Let's not forget what Gail once said about Roy, I can not remember where I read it or the exact quote, but she said something like she could reveal something about him from his past that may get him in trouble or something to that effect. With his conviction you can see that statement in a whole new light, I remember registering a high Red Flag when I read it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:28 am 
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Plook wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Some secret(?) clues from FZ's oevre that early on he could at least have been aware of some RE sexual behavior specialities:

- Afternoon Of A Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
- Right There
- dedication to Roy during the outro of Illinois Enema Bandit on ZINY (I always wondered about this)
- rubber doll episode in BS

Some more?

Th.



Let's not forget what Gail once said about Roy, I can not remember where I read it or the exact quote, but she said something like she could reveal something about him from his past that may get him in trouble or something to that effect. With his conviction you can see that statement in a whole new light, I remember registering a high Red Flag when I read it.

:smoke:


I read it too and it was somewhere on these boards. It was a warning that he'd better stop bad-mouthing Zappa plays Zappa because she could reveal something about him that could land him in serious trouble. I seem to remember that Trendmonger (sorry to mention him) also quoted her as saying it too.
At the time I racked my brains trying to think what it could be but I never even thought about "that". You don't do you?

I want to ask this quite carefully and it's based on reading some comments in this and the other thread about Roy in Jail....... Are some people suggesting that Frank may have known?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 am 
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She said.....

"It is not true that I do not feel that they or anyone else should not be playing the Music of Frank Zappa and it is endlessly boring to be reading this opinion on this here forum. What is true is that Frank Zappa's music should NOT be exploited by anyone who does not pay the rights-holders for the USE of the music. That is not Frank Zappa's idea of a good time - nor is it mine. I have not forgotten who played in FZ's bands - and better that some of them should not forget their enjoyment of the perks of their employment opportunities!!! But, Roy has his nerve complaining about FZ in interviews now and if I catch another example I will officially go on record for what he has never taken responsibility for and remind him that we did not report him to the police all those years ago. FAYPWAPIYH!"

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:27 am 
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thenoisydrum wrote:
I want to ask this quite carefully and it's based on reading some comments in this and the other thread about Roy in Jail....... Are some people suggesting that Frank may have known?


Of course Frank knew Roy liked 'em young.
That Roy continued to pursue this is another story.
In the 60s/70s it was considered a perk of being in the rock biz.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:29 am 
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Yes, that was the post.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:16 am 
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I'm really stupid, what is "FAYPWAPIYH"?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:03 am 
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brainpang wrote:
thenoisydrum wrote:
I want to ask this quite carefully and it's based on reading some comments in this and the other thread about Roy in Jail....... Are some people suggesting that Frank may have known?


Of course Frank knew Roy liked 'em young.
That Roy continued to pursue this is another story.
In the 60s/70s it was considered a perk of being in the rock biz.


That's not really what I meant

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:11 am 
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Plook wrote:
I'm really stupid, what is "FAYPWAPIYH"?

:smoke:


"I will be more specific so you might understand....."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:22 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Plook wrote:
I'm really stupid, what is "FAYPWAPIYH"?

:smoke:


"I will be more specific so you might understand....."

How about..."Fuck all you people with a pen in your hand."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:57 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Plook wrote:
I'm really stupid, what is "FAYPWAPIYH"?

:smoke:


"I will be more specific so you might understand....."

How about..."Fuck all you people with a pen in your hand."



:idea:


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