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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:51 am 
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Humble? :mrgreen:

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1. having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:32 am 
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No shortage of shootings and editorial cartoons. The beat goes on… :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Very grim, but sadly accurate. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:05 am 
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Looks like Gabby has the right idea.....http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-conte ... o-Leak.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:35 pm 
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Of course that image of Gabbie Giffords is from before some Right Wing nut job got the idea to attempt to murder her with a gun after seeing Sarah Palins "crosshairs"...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:34 am 
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No it is not, snivel about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:51 am 
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The image of her certainly wasn't from after she was shot in the head by a deranged gun wacko.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:01 am 
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OK Mr denial , here is another, take off the blinders......http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q= ... 1632846630

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:37 am 
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Well ok. Apparently she did, in the second photo with the article link anyways. The first image you linked where she's holding the assault weapon looks like it was taken before she was shot.


I'm not opposed to responsible people owning and purchasing guns from responsible sellers. Problem is, too many irresponsible people and criminals get a hold of firearms and there are too many loopholes that allow these people to get them. That's why there needs to be stricter laws, regulations and penalties, not just for criminal activity involving them, but even for accidents. There should also be penalties for people who incite shootings, like politicians who say stuff like "shoot them in the head" ~ Glenn Beck...."don't retreat, reload" ~ Sarah Palin...


...because this is the byproduct (besides what happened to Gabbie Giffords)...

Quote:
How much does right-wing rhetoric contribute to right-wing terrorism?

Yesterday, a man and a woman shot two police officers in a Las Vegas restaurant after saying, “this is a revolution.” Then they draped their bodies in a Gadsden flag. According to reports now coming in, the couple (who later killed themselves) appear to have been white supremacists and told neighbors they had gone to join the protests in support of anti-government rancher Cliven Bundy. It was one more incident of right-wing terrorism that, while not exactly an epidemic, has become enough of a trend to raise some troubling questions.

What I’m about to say will raise some hackles, but we need to talk about it. It’s long past time for prominent conservatives and Republicans to do some introspection and ask whether they’re contributing to outbreaks of right-wing violence.

Before I go on, let me be clear about what I’m not saying. I’m not saying that Republican members of Congress bear direct responsibility for everything some disturbed person from the same side of the political spectrum as them might do. I’m not saying that they are explicitly encouraging violence. Nor am I saying that you can’t find examples of liberals using hyperbolic, irresponsible words.

But what I am saying is this: there are some particular features of conservative political rhetoric today that help create an atmosphere in which violence and terrorism can germinate.

The most obvious component is the fetishization of firearms and the constant warnings that government will soon be coming to take your guns. But that’s only part of it. Just as meaningful is the conspiracy theorizing that became utterly mainstream once Barack Obama took office. If you tuned into one of many national television and radio programs on the right, you heard over and over that Obama was imposing a totalitarian state upon us. You might hear that FEMA was building secret concentration camps (Glenn Beck, the propagator of that theory, later recanted it, though he has a long history of violent rhetoric), or that Obama is seeding the government with agents of the Muslim Brotherhood. You grandfather probably got an email offering proof that Obama is literally the antichrist.

Meanwhile, conservatives have become prone to taking the political disagreements of the moment and couching them in apocalyptic terms, encouraging people to think that if Democrats have their way on any given debate, that our country, or at the very least our liberty, might literally be destroyed.

To take just one of an innumerable number of examples, when GOP Senator Ron Johnson says that the Affordable Care Act is “the greatest assault on freedom in our lifetime,” and hopes that the Supreme Court will intervene to preserve our “last shred of freedom,” is it at all surprising that some people might be tempted to take up arms? After all, if he’s right, and the ACA really means that freedom is being destroyed, then violent revolution seems justified. Johnson might respond by saying, “Well, of course I didn’t mean that literally.” And I’m sure he didn’t — Johnson may be no rocket scientist, but he knows that despite the individual mandate going into effect, there are a few shreds of freedom remaining in America.

But the argument that no sane person could actually believe many of the things conservatives say shouldn’t absolve them of responsibility. When you broadcast every day that the government of the world’s oldest democracy is a totalitarian beast bent on turning America into a prison of oppression and fear, when you glorify lawbreakers like Cliven Bundy, when you say that your opponents would literally destroy the country if they could, you can’t profess surprise when some people decide that violence is the only means of forestalling the disaster you have warned them about.

To my conservative friends tempted to find outrageous things liberals have said in order to argue that both sides are equally to blame, I’d respond this way: Find me all the examples of people who shot up a church after reading books by Rachel Maddow and Paul Krugman, and then you’ll have a case.

In our recent history, every election of a Democratic president is followed by a rise in conspiracy-obsessed right-wing populism. In the 1960s it was the John Birch Society; in the 1990s it was the militia movement shouting about black UN helicopters, and during the Obama presidency it was the Tea Party. Some of those movements are ultimately harmless, but alongside and around them are people who take their rhetoric seriously and lash out in response. After these killings in Nevada, and the murders at a Jewish community center in Kansas, and the murders at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and multiple murders by members of the “sovereign citizens” movement in the last few years, it’s worth remembering that since 9/11, right-wing terrorism has killed many more Americans than al Qaeda terrorism.

And I promise you, these murders in Nevada will not be the last. It may be going too far to say that conservative politicians and media figures whose rhetoric has fed the deranged fantasies of terrorists and killers have blood on their hands. But they shouldn’t have a clear conscience, either.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plu ... terrorism/


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Mostly agree

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:07 pm 
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If only editorial cartoons and statistics could solve the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:16 am 
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+1

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:52 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
If only editorial cartoons and statistics could solve the problem.


What would be your solution to keeping guns out of the hands of bad people?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:37 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
If only editorial cartoons and statistics could solve the problem.


What would be your solution to keeping guns out of the hands of bad people?


I would prefer to know what your solution is? If you wouldn't mind, indulge me in a brief summary of your solution. I don't have time to read back through all the cartoons and stats to try to figure out your solution. If you have even provided one? I'm a pothead who drags his ass to work 50 hours a week. As someone who breaks the law every day, do you feel that I'm entitled to have a gun? Not that I have the desire to own one. Who gets to determine who the bad people are, and who is qualified to have a gun? I'm not so sure I'd be comfortable putting you or ad hominem boy in charge of that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:18 pm 
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I gave a few ideas that I would implement if I were in charge. Stricter laws and restrictions, more regulations and stiffer penalties for gun owners and sales people. Close ALL gun sale loopholes. Yearly licensing fee's and mandatory classes and psych exams annually, make it mandatory for ALL gun owners to register ALL guns and make them responsible for any death or injury that happens with their gun. Mandatory smaller capacity clips. There are a lot more things I've mentioned.

How about you? What's your solution ideas? Obviously, more guns per capita and weaker gun laws don't work as the area's with them have higher gun crime rates per capita..


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:00 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
What would be your solution to keeping guns out of the hands of bad people?


It's too late. The "bad" people are posing as the "good" people (and getting away with it) so your question is meaningless. All you can do now is start being realistic, knowing it's too late.

My solution? I'd start being honest immediately. To the core. That's my solution. You can't be honest and be a flag waver for some political party at the same time. I'm not talking about telling everyone the truth. I'm not saying don't lie to a policemen. I'm talking about being honest with yourself. That will help reduce gun violence. Are you capable of changing? You're in a huge rut here at the Z forum, for sure.


Last edited by downer mydnyte on Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:26 pm 
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I have never pretended or claimed that I have the solution to the problem. I will admit there is a problem though. You made some good points that I can agree with, but you lost me on the psych exams. If the person knows what they are doing, psychiatrists can be manipulated into labeling them as something they are not. Do you really think people who make $200 an hour are honest? Get real man. Not to mention, that a crazy person can appear quite normal until that one catalyst sets them off. This could happen between their annual psych exams. Who pays for it? The gun owners who are being forced to take the exam, or is this another burden on us overloaded taxpayers?

You also avoided my main question. So, let me rephrase it. As someone who openly breaks the law every day, am I entitled to own a gun if I pass all your other criteria for gun ownership?


Last edited by Philostopher on Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Fuck SB's criteria. He's not worthy or qualified.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:41 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
It's too late. The "bad" people are posing as the "good" people (and getting away with it)


I like that. You care if I use it elsewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Ok DM, besides a "fuck you too", obviously you are of the cowardly mindset of giving up and conceding. Unfortunately for you and others with the "it's too late, lets just give up" attitude, there are many people who are sick tired of their kids, their friends, their family and others in their communities being victims of what is essentially directly related to corporate greed at the cost of gun industry profiteering.

In this one single instance, I have to agree with DB a point. You really do have no clue.

It's too bad that as a society, the "give up and concede" attitudes of so many people has struck a pacifistic mentality regarding the solving of any real serious problems and issues, and are stupid enough just to let the system stomp all over them and their loved ones and allow them to continue without change.


Again, fuck DM. Obvious chump. :roll: If you don't have, or refuse to accept a solution, you ARE part of the problem.

You obviously don't get it, and you never will, so go fuck yourself.


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:01 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I gave a few ideas that I would implement if I were in charge. Stricter laws and restrictions, more regulations and stiffer penalties for gun owners and sales people. Close ALL gun sale loopholes. Yearly licensing fee's and mandatory classes and psych exams annually, make it mandatory for ALL gun owners to register ALL guns and make them responsible for any death or injury that happens with their gun. Mandatory smaller capacity clips. There are a lot more things I've mentioned.

How about you? What's your solution ideas? Obviously, more guns per capita and weaker gun laws don't work as the area's with them have higher gun crime rates per capita..



How about doing something about the core reason for this problem ?

EDUCATION !

Babies aren't born knowing how to use a gun , rob anybody , do psychical or mental harm to another.
They learn that from uneducated parents .

The most uneducated in this country , because they were passed like sheep through the system, are doing the most uneducated things that often land then in prison.
You can blame the environment that these people come from, rural and inner city , and you blame the poverty rate in those same areas but facts show that more $'s have been spent on the war on poverty and education than most other social programs in this country.

What it comes down to is uneducated children raising more uneducated children , and the lack of responsibility that they never learn. Blame the schools , the parents and most of all , blame the ' programs ' that keep the people under the thumb of a gov't that constantly tells you ' we're here to help '.

The apple never falls far from the tree.
:|


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:04 pm 
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The core reason is the resistance towards curbing the profitability at any cost, including human lives. Simple. Education costs money. The gun industry wants people to spend money on their educators. It's all, and always will be about profits and financial gain.

Babies aren't born knowing how to shoot up heroin either. It's a product of environment and corporate brainwashing.

As far as I'm concerned, it's an open and shut case. If you don't accept that, fine, you are also part of the problem, not the solution.

As long as there is massive amounts of money to be made by the gun industry, no amount of education will change a damn thing. Anything that cuts into their profit margin will be met with massive amounts of resistance.

The REAL problem is divide between the haves and the have not's. The last straw may actually come down to wealth redistribution, so that the poor and uneducated in our society can become informed in a way that isn't done to fill the pockets of a small few.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:51 pm 
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Question:
How much money does the United States spend on public elementary and secondary schools?

Response:
Total expenditures for public elementary and secondary schools in the United States amounted to $638 billion in 2009-10, or about $12,743 per public school student.
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66



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Don't you think the kids deserve our hard earned tax paid money and don't you want your money's worth from the programs you're funding ?? :?

If the democratic party ever spent money like it was their own , I might not look down on them so much.
They have spent the money and you are living with the results.
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:05 pm 
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It's fucked up that the NRA has that kind of money to begin with. They don't receive a penny of my money. I should probably do more, but I send any extra money I have to St. Jude.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:46 am 
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Philostopher wrote:
...I send any extra money I have to St. Jude.

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