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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Words and numbers do not debunk myths.

Free your mind and your ass will follow........


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:00 am 
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If you believe that, then you have an un-free mind. You're allowing the paranoia stricken conspiracy theory nuts think for you.

Documented and reported statistics based on the accumulation of individual events do disprove the pro-gun myths perpetuated by multi-national multi-billion dollar corporate driven special interests.

Guns don't shoot people. People with guns shoot people. Higher gun ownership per capita and weaker gun laws = more gun related deaths per capita. If these basic concepts evade your sensibility, you're just a brainwashed paranoid human drone and no different than the fools who refuse to accept the hard facts and statistics.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:24 am 
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Josh, you're slipping. You didn't call me an idiot. You could have at least complimented me with one or two gratuitous slurs. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:01 pm 
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ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

tweedle-dumb needs to take his meds.

Then he might realize that a) Chicago and Washington, DC have the strictest firearm laws but have the HIGHEST amounts of firearm related deaths in the entire US and b) when Australia banned a large percentage of firearms in 1997, rapes increased 30% and violent crime increased nearly 50%, amongst other things.

NOTHING he has stated disproves the above.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:19 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If you believe that, then you have an un-free mind. You're allowing the paranoia stricken conspiracy theory nuts think for you.

I don't listen to conspiracy theories. At all. There's absolutely no time in my life to catch up on conspiracy nut gossip.

Are you so fucking shallow that you can't even comprehend the fact that people like me exist? I'm a doer, not a sit- on- my- ass- watching (obeying)- the -media type person. I'm only self righteous when I talk to you and your unhealthy obsession- Disco Boy. That's because you are paid political spammers. You are the absolute antithesis of Zappa, yet here you are on a forum dedicated to him. You suck.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:06 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If you believe that, then you have an un-free mind. You're allowing the paranoia stricken conspiracy theory nuts think for you.

I don't listen to conspiracy theories. At all. There's absolutely no time in my life to catch up on conspiracy nut gossip.

Are you so fucking shallow that you can't even comprehend the fact that people like me exist? I'm a doer, not a sit- on- my- ass- watching (obeying)- the -media type person. I'm only self righteous when I talk to you and your unhealthy obsession- Disco Boy. That's because you are paid political spammers. You are the absolute antithesis of Zappa, yet here you are on a forum dedicated to him. You suck.


Lets talk about your unhealthy obsession with me and Disco Douche. For hating what I/we post so much, you sure can't help yourself but to respond. You suck even worse. The existence of people like you are so far below my comprehension and not worth my time, that I tend to completely ignore nut jobs like you.

Disco Douche wrote:
ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

tweedle-dumb needs to take his meds.

Then he might realize that a) Chicago and Washington, DC have the strictest firearm laws but have the HIGHEST amounts of firearm related deaths in the entire US and b) when Australia banned a large percentage of firearms in 1997, rapes increased 30% and violent crime increased nearly 50%, amongst other things.

NOTHING he has stated disproves the above.



Actually, what I'm about to post thoroughly disproves your fictitious mythological claim yet again...and again...and again...



Cities in order from highest murder rates per 100K capita...

1) Detroit - 54.6
2) New Orleans - 53.2
3) St Louis - 35.5
4) Baltimore - 34.9
5) Newark - 34.4
6) Oakland 31.8
7) Kansas City - 22.6
8 ) Philadelphia - 21.5
9) Cleveland - 21.3
10) Memphis - 20.2
11) Atlanta - 19.0
12) Chicago - 18.5

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... e-u.s/2012


Funny how Chicago didn't even crack the top ten, and Washington DC didn't even make the list, where as the top two, Detroit and New Orleans have among the weakest gun laws and highest ownerships per capita.

Consider yourself called out for bullshit an/or just plain stupidity. The numbers betray your claims. Chicago isn't even remotely close to even the top 5. You lose. Thanks. Play again. Another "Ayn Rand books are the all time best sellers ever" and "Ron Paul is guaranteed to get 10 million votes in the primaries" moment.

Actually, calling you stupid is an insult to stupid people. I have house plants with higher intellectuality than you.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:50 am 
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What are the stats per year, is the chicago 18% per day? actually last year 459 dead, i don't care how many live there, it's a dangerous town to walk around in especially at night. So far this year almost 200.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:14 am 
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Statistically, you're more likely to get murdered in Sioux Falls with the entire state of SD at 23.82 with 2,682 violent crime incidents annually per population of 833,354 than you are in Chicago at 18.5 with 489 violent crime incidents annually per population of 2.7 million. - http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/sd/crime/

That's over 5 times the number of violent crime incidents with 1/3rd of the population of Chicago.

If you don't see the disparity between weak gun laws and higher ownership rates per population versus stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per population, then you are in in serious denial.

Note - the graph I provided only accounts for the largest cities in the US. The crime rates for most smaller cities is significantly higher, especially in states with weaker gun laws and higher ownerships per capita.


Question to all of you gun nuts...

Why is it that there are more than 5 times the number of violent crime incidents with 1/3rd of the population between the entire state on SD than there is in the City of Chicago?

Chicago versus the state of SD - more than 3x the population with less than 1/5th of the violent crime incidents.



The myth continues to be debunked. The facts don't work in favor of the pro-gun crowd, no matter how much phony propaganda the gun industry profiteers try to force feed the public. The gun industry is no different than big tobacco in the sense that they both have claimed their products are safe and healthy, despite the statistical facts that prove otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:13 am 
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Kinda funny how 11 of the 12 cities listed have Democratic mayors . :shock:

With all the spewage from Dems about hating guns and loving more regs against them , these particular mayors are doing a bang up job at quelling the violence due to firearms in their own cities.

I'm guessing that the standard reply from these mayors would be that they need more money from the taxpayer to pay for more police.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:27 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
Actually, what I'm about to post thoroughly disproves your fictitious mythological claim yet again...and again...and again...



Cities in order from highest murder rates per 100K capita...

1) Detroit - 54.6
2) New Orleans - 53.2
3) St Louis - 35.5
4) Baltimore - 34.9
5) Newark - 34.4
6) Oakland 31.8
7) Kansas City - 22.6
8 ) Philadelphia - 21.5
9) Cleveland - 21.3
10) Memphis - 20.2
11) Atlanta - 19.0
12) Chicago - 18.5

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... e-u.s/2012


Funny how Chicago didn't even crack the top ten, and Washington DC didn't even make the list, where as the top two, Detroit and New Orleans have among the weakest gun laws and highest ownerships per capita.

Consider yourself called out for bullshit an/or just plain stupidity. The numbers betray your claims. Chicago isn't even remotely close to even the top 5. You lose. Thanks. Play again. Another "Ayn Rand books are the all time best sellers ever" and "Ron Paul is guaranteed to get 10 million votes in the primaries" moment.

Actually, calling you stupid is an insult to stupid people. I have house plants with higher intellectuality than you.


I'm NOT talking about murder rates. I'm talking about the sheer quantity of firearm related deaths, you delusional-twat-dumb-shit...

SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

tweedle-dumb needs to take his meds.

Then he might realize that a) Chicago and Washington, DC have the strictest firearm laws but have the HIGHEST amounts of firearm related deaths in the entire US and b) when Australia banned a large percentage of firearms in 1997, rapes increased 30% and violent crime increased nearly 50%, amongst other things.

NOTHING you have stated disproves the above.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Con-troll
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:23 am 
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Disco Troll Boy wrote:
SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Image

He used to be a nice boy…

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Con-troll
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Image

He used to be a nice boy…


Well, at least you got the sweat pants right...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:22 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Statistically, you're more likely to get murdered in Sioux Falls with the entire state of SD at 23.82 with 2,682 violent crime incidents annually per population of 833,354 than you are in Chicago at 18.5 with 489 violent crime incidents annually per population of 2.7 million. - http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/sd/crime/

That's over 5 times the number of violent crime incidents with 1/3rd of the population of Chicago.

If you don't see the disparity between weak gun laws and higher ownership rates per population versus stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per population, then you are in in serious denial.

Note - the graph I provided only accounts for the largest cities in the US. The crime rates for most smaller cities is significantly higher, especially in states with weaker gun laws and higher ownerships per capita.


Question to all of you gun nuts...

Why is it that there are more than 5 times the number of violent crime incidents with 1/3rd of the population between the entire state on SD than there is in the City of Chicago?

Chicago versus the state of SD - more than 3x the population with less than 1/5th of the violent crime incidents.



The myth continues to be debunked. The facts don't work in favor of the pro-gun crowd, no matter how much phony propaganda the gun industry profiteers try to force feed the public. The gun industry is no different than big tobacco in the sense that they both have claimed their products are safe and healthy, despite the statistical facts that prove otherwise.







You are confusing per capita with actual incident, go walk the streets of chicago at night then sioux falls then tell me. I would rather walk the streets of Pine Ridge at night.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:25 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
You are confusing per capita with actual incident, go walk the streets of chicago at night then sioux falls then tell me. I would rather walk the streets of Pine Ridge at night.


No. The argument was framed as per capita since page 1...

Disco Douche wrote:
blsabob23 wrote:
It is not merely a mental health issue OR a gun issue, it is a combination of the two. The lack of decent mental health care programs and the easy availability of military grade weaponry is just a recipe for disaster. We need to deal with both issues. But lets look at some basic facts. First, after Australia had one of these incidents in the mid 90s, they banned assault weapons and placed strict regulations on all others. Since then, their homicide rate dropped by 59% and there have been zero mass killings. Second, soldiers in Israel used to be able to take their guns home with them on the weekends. They had a serious problems with soldiers committing suicide while they were away from the barracks. So they forbid them from bringing guns home with them and the suicide rate was cut in half. So don't try to tell me that having guns in the home is not a large part of the problem.

BTW, the children of other countries enjoy playing the same violent video games as American kids, and the homicide rates in most of those countries are less than 1% of what ours are.


1. As of 2011, Australia has over 22.6 million people and the US has over 311.6 million people.

viewtopic.php?p=565282#p565282


The more people in one location geographically, the more of everything happens.

Anyone who claims that stricter gun laws and lower ownerships per capita doesn't decrease gun related crime are full of shit...

Quote:
Chicago crime numbers show decrease in shootings, murders from 2012: Police
October 1, 2013 (CHICAGO) --
For the first 9 months of the year, murders are down 21 percent compared to January to September in 2012.
http://abc7chicago.com/archive/9269536/


Quote:
Chicago murder rate drops by 34 percent
CHICAGO—This week, the nation’s third-largest city reached a milestone it hadn’t seen since the 1960s as murders dropped by 34 percent compared with the same time in 2012. Chicago officials attribute the drastic decrease to progress from a comprehensive crime reduction strategy that Chicago Police Department Superintendent Garry McCarthy and Mayor Rahm Emanuel employed in 2012.

http://thegrio.com/2013/06/14/chicago-m ... any-safer/



Places with weak gun laws and higher ownerships have actually seen crime rates increase...
Quote:
Cities where violent crime is soaring

While the prevalence of violent crime — which includes murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault — has declined in many of the nation's metropolitan areas, in some regions it has increased. In Bismarck, North Dakota, the violent crime rate more-than doubled — from 167.5 cases per 100,000 people in 2007 to 354.3 in 2013. Based on figures published by the FBI, these are the metropolitan areas with the greatest increases in violent crime rate.
...
In many of the metro areas where crime rose the most, the economy has been especially strong. This is the case with Odessa, Texas, an oil boom town that has experienced rapid economic growth and large inflows of people. Two other metro areas, Columbus, Indiana, and Sioux Falls, South Dakota, have also experienced strong growth in recent years.
...
These are U.S. cities where violent crime is soaring.

1. Odessa, Texas

> 5-year increase in violent crime rate: 75.5%
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2007): 468.1
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2012): 821.3
> Murders per 100,000: 3.5

There were 672.2 aggravated assaults per 100,000 residents in Odessa in 2012, an increase of more than 80% since 2007. Most property crimes, such as burglary and theft, became less likely over that time period, declining by 13.8% and 19.0%, respectively. On the other hand, motor theft, in particular, increased by 17% to more than 500 incidents in 2012. Many reported auto thefts, however, may have been illegitimate, according to an officer the Odessa Police Department. Some incidents, for example, may have been insurance fraud attempts, or drunk drivers abandoning their vehicle and claiming it was stolen. Some vehicles were being stripped for scrap metal, while others being taken merely for joyrides.

2. Columbus, Ind.

> 5-year increase in violent crime rate: 70.1%
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2007): 101.6
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2012): 172.8
> Murders per 100,000: 1.3

There were just 76 violent crimes committed in Columbus in 2007, lower than in all but one other metro area where data was available. Although the violent crime rate remained relatively low when compared with most metro areas in 2012, the rate increased by more than 70% from 2007. Motor vehicle crime was up by nearly 50% in the area between 2007 and 2012, versus a 37% decline in auto theft nationwide. The area is also home to a number of major auto parts manufacturing operations, which are critical to the area's economy.

3. Wheeling, W. Va.-Ohio

> 5-year increase in violent crime rate: 67.7%
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2007): 172.6
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2012): 289.4
> Murders per 100,000: 0.0

Although the violent crime rate in the Wheeling metro area rose by more than nearly all other such areas between 2007 and 2012, the region is still relatively safe. There were zero murders in 2012, and less than 40 robberies per 100,000 residents, considerably less than the national rates of 112.9 robberies and 4.7 murders per 100,000 residents that year. Marshall and Ohio county, which are part of the Wheeling metro area, are both considered part of the Appalachia High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. A large scale law-enforcement operation investigating narcotic trafficking in 2012 resulted in numerous indictments of criminals distributing heroin, cocaine, and pain pills throughout the area.


4. Hanford-Corcoran, Calif.

> 5-year increase in violent crime rate: 65.3%
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2007): 299.0
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2012): 494.2
> Murders per 100,000: 2.6

While the violent crime rate across the nation declined by 18% between 2007 and 2012, in the Hanford metro area it increased by more than 65%. In particular, incidents of rape increased by nearly 80% over that time, more than all but six other urban areas. Aggravated assaults had also increased by more than 80%in those five years. Because of the increase in violent crime, local officials have had trouble dealing with serious overcrowding issues in the local prisons. In 2012, law enforcement officials were forced to release prisoners early. They also complained they couldn't properly discourage and deter criminals who knew of the prisons' overcrowding problems.


5. Redding, Calif.

> 5-year increase in violent crime rate: 53.8%
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2007): 470.2
> Violent crime per 100,000 (2012): 723.4
> Murders per 100,000: 3.9

There were 1,298 violent crimes in the Redding metro area in 2012, up from 851 violent crimes in 2007. On a standardized, per 100,000 resident basis, violent crime rose more than 53% in that time. Additionally, property crimes rose by more than 50%, the most of any metro area reviewed, despite a nationwide 12.7% decline in such crimes during that time. According to the Redding Record Searchlight, some area residents believe that the area's high crime rates may be related to marijuana cultivation. Officials in Shasta County — which makes up the Redding metro area — recently elected to ban outdoor growing, although the city of Redding is not included in the ban.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bus ... e/5415823/



Notice how not only the three worst cities for increased crime rates are all in states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships per capita, but are also controlled by Republicans and Libertarians.



The pro-gun myths continue to be debunked on a daily basis here.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Just stop with the sats and drive to Chicago and go have a walk,at lets say,midnight, in old town.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:05 pm 
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tweedle-dumb keeps rehashing PARTS of the same old arguments that have been PROVEN wrong by myself and others countless times.

Not only does tweedle-dumb not realize that blsabob23 still hasn't posted the links to his supposed "stats" I requested pages ago, but he's now talking about violent crime rates, and not firearm related deaths, which of course are two COMPLETELY different things. And lastly, the reason why Chicago's murder rate has decreased significantly over the past year or so is because of anti-gang initiatives established by local authorities and NOT because of stricter gun laws - which I also covered pages ago...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:20 am 
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I'm reiterating that you skirt two sides of an argument by first bolstering it with a "per capita" number value to back up your point, but then suddenly and mysteriously deny it when it ends up proving you wrong by changing the parameters to an "over all" numerical value.


In both cases, you have been repeatedly proven wrong, just like every other argument you get into here.

Bottom line - stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per capita = less gun deaths per capita

...and...

The over all number of gun deaths in the USA is decreasing because the most populous cities in America are in states with stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per capita. Both parameters prove you wrong.


Almost ALL states (and cities) with weak gun laws and and higher ownership rates per capita (not one guy who owns a thousand guns but instead 1000 people with guns for example) have actually seen their gun death rates significantly spike.



Denying the facts, like how Disco Douche always does when they prove him wrong repeatedly, doesn't change the basic principal that weaker gun laws and higher ownership rates per capita = higher gun deaths per capita. Every single link on the subject I've provided, including the numbers from the data bases from the FBI, CDC, local and state law enforcement and the military, proves you wrong on every single account.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:16 am 
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I don't want to join your debate with db, but I think you are putting to much weight on the per capita stat. imo it by passes common cents. Like comparing the likely hood of being shot in sioux falls ,compared to chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:52 am 
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Nobody wants to join SB's debate with DB :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:31 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
I'm reiterating that you skirt two sides of an argument by first bolstering it with a "per capita" number value to back up your point, but then suddenly and mysteriously deny it when it ends up proving you wrong by changing the parameters to an "over all" numerical value.


In both cases, you have been repeatedly proven wrong, just like every other argument you get into here.

Bottom line - stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per capita = less gun deaths per capita

...and...

The over all number of gun deaths in the USA is decreasing because the most populous cities in America are in states with stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per capita. Both parameters prove you wrong.


Almost ALL states (and cities) with weak gun laws and and higher ownership rates per capita (not one guy who owns a thousand guns but instead 1000 people with guns for example) have actually seen their gun death rates significantly spike.



Denying the facts, like how Disco Douche always does when they prove him wrong repeatedly, doesn't change the basic principal that weaker gun laws and higher ownership rates per capita = higher gun deaths per capita. Every single link on the subject I've provided, including the numbers from the data bases from the FBI, CDC, local and state law enforcement and the military, proves you wrong on every single account.

Image


No, I don't, "skirt two sides of an argument...", nor have I EVER. Unlike you, I back my shit up, asswipe.

And the REAL reason why firearm related deaths are relatively decreasing or remaining stagnant, even though the Brady Bill expired TEN YEARS AGO, is simply because more people have access to firearm so they can defend themselves from tools like you.

ALL you've done here is provide mostly inaccurate links & quotes. And hilariously enough, the particular links that you provide accurate statistics for, DON'T back up your points. So, instead, you change the goal posts to make it look like they do.

You wouldn't know a FACT if it bit you in the ass. You're a COMPLETE fucking idiot. And unfortunately, I think you always will be.

Now, go and take your meds...and then go for a walk with tweedle-dee...

Image

...because he's just as in denial as you are...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:22 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I don't want to join your debate with db, but I think you are putting to much weight on the per capita stat. imo it by passes common cents. Like comparing the likely hood of being shot in sioux falls ,compared to chicago.


Your chances of being shot in Sioux Falls is statistically more likely than in Chicago.




Straight forward simple question time, and provide direct links to back up your answer...

Why is it that mainly cities with weaker gun laws and higher ownership rates per capita are mainly the ones that have seen crime rates increase while the country on a whole is seeing a decrease in gun deaths per capita, and why is it that states with stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per capita have lower over all gun deaths per capita than states with weaker laws and higher ownerships per capita then?


Disco douche will predictably claim to have already answered this while actually never answering it. I bet he won't even provide a link to where he'll claim to have answered it, just like he does every time almost everybody on the forum proves him wrong again...and again...and again...


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:49 am 
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statistically; but that is the point I am trying to make. Take off the blinders. This is an interesting point. Stats don't always show reality, and this is one. Go to both cities like i said, prove it to your self, the comparison through the stat you quote is laughable.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:42 am 
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I've been to both cities, and I think they are both great places to visit, but I wouldn't want to live in either of them.


I'll rephrase the question and break it down to two if that makes it easier to answer...

Why is it that more people are murdered by firearms per every 100,000 people in cities and states where gun laws are weaker and ownerships per 100,000 people are higher than in cities and states where gun laws are stricter and ownerships per 100,000 people are lower?

Why is it that among the most populous cities and states in America, where gun ownerships per 100,000 people are higher and with weaker gun laws have actually seen gun death rates increase per 100,000, as opposed to the most populous cities and states with stronger gun laws and lower ownerships per 100,000 have almost all seen decreases in gun death rates per 100,000?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:20 am 
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Well i agree i don't want to live in either city . But If you truly have been to sioux falls then you know that your chances of being shot there compared to chi town, is way lower.

OK, example, the statistics back when Frank released his first lp showed that he would not not be successful, in fact, the record companys told him commercial songs compared to his style would be better.
We all know what the answer is. So......... simply quoting comparative stats really don't apply all the time, in the real world.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun Con-troll
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

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He used to be a nice boy…


Well, at least you got the sweat pants right...


Obviously, Mr. Nice Guy's got it all wrong; here's a true image of DB, sweat pants unfortunately partially obscured...
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