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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:50 am 
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EXACTLY, and what do they use for that defence?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:01 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
we call some one with a GUN when there is an emergency




What's this "we" shit? You call someone with a gun when there is an emergency? I thought you had your own gun.

I've never called anyone with a gun during an emergency.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:57 pm 
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ok ,Just using the term to describe a school for instance, at MY house a sign hangs saying we don't call 911. No kidding you have NEVER had to call the police for anything?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:51 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
They are all avoidable circumstances. That's the primary function gun control, and the statistics back it up. The places with the least amount of gun control measures have the highest rates of gun crime per captita. That's the moral to the story, and the numbers don't lie. Bottom line. It's not about me, but making it about me is how a few of you gun chumps react to something as trivial as statistics that you don't like.


If you want to start a cancer thread B.S.'er, knock yourself out. There's plenty to discuss statistically about many of the causes, which I know you won't like anyways. I would be more than glad to discuss carcinogens and toxic cancer causing substances that geographically exist in higher rates as a direct result of deregulation...but this thread is about gun control, and those who have perished because of a lack thereof.


I think you are confusing information with facts. The notion that places with the least amount of gun control have the highest gun crime is ambiguous at best, so if a town of 50 people has as you say the least amount of gun control, has 1 gun crime that would be higher than a town of 1000 with 15 gun crimes. plus was the small town a one time incident over 10 years, so the info is misleading, take chicago with the highest gun DEATH rate, 6 juvenile blacks dead in the last 4 days, and at the hands of black shooters. All this with the STRONGEST gun laws in the nation, and little or no media coverage, Uh..... I don't remember obama identifying with these young men. I am all about gun control but the discussion needs to be accurate and not hyperbole.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:42 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
They are all avoidable circumstances. That's the primary function gun control, and the statistics back it up. The places with the least amount of gun control measures have the highest rates of gun crime per captita. That's the moral to the story, and the numbers don't lie. Bottom line. It's not about me, but making it about me is how a few of you gun chumps react to something as trivial as statistics that you don't like.


If you want to start a cancer thread B.S.'er, knock yourself out. There's plenty to discuss statistically about many of the causes, which I know you won't like anyways. I would be more than glad to discuss carcinogens and toxic cancer causing substances that geographically exist in higher rates as a direct result of deregulation...but this thread is about gun control, and those who have perished because of a lack thereof.


I think you are confusing information with facts. The notion that places with the least amount of gun control have the highest gun crime is ambiguous at best, so if a town of 50 people has as you say the least amount of gun control, has 1 gun crime that would be higher than a town of 1000 with 15 gun crimes. plus was the small town a one time incident over 10 years, so the info is misleading, take chicago with the highest gun DEATH rate...


eh.....Wrong!

per capita...
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
...


Chicago Illinois has a 4.23% crime rate.

Atlanta Georgia has a 7.38% crime rate.

Indianapolis has a 7.03% crime rate.

San Antonio Texas has a 7.24% crime rate.

Birmingham Alabama has a 9.22% crime rate.

Besseer Alabama has a 15.44% crime rate.

...


The states with the highest gun ownerships and the least gun laws lead the country in gun crime rates per capita. You're nearly twice as likely to get murdered from a gun in Memphis Tennessee with a rate of 8.22% than you are in Chicago at a rate of 4.23%.


http://city-crime-statistics.findthedata.org/



When I think about the tactics used by the gun industry and it's advocates, it reminds me of the good 'ol days of the tabacco industry, doing everything a big business can do to dupe the public into believing that their products made you healthier and safer. All proven wrong. Less people use tobacco now, so the cancer and illness rates relating to it have declined. It's just the way the laws of probability and statistics have always worked. More guns and less laws will never equal less crime. It doesn't work that way, and it never will. It's a proven fact with a 0% margin for error.

Remember when lawn darts were cool? How about the Atomic Play Set from the 1950s? :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:36 am 
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you missed the point, chicago has millions the per capita numbers are superfluous, there are still the most killed in that city, sheeesh

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:04 pm 
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If we want to play by the statistical numbers of deaths regionally, then why is it that the gun death rate in the USA is the 4th highest in the world behind South Africa, Columbia and Thailand?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... h-firearms



I get the point, and I get the reality of the statistics. The gun crime rates in Chicago with it's higher density population and stricter laws are still lower than most of the major high density cities in states with higher gun ownership and weaker laws. There is no other point. That is THE point. The gun industry is just pulling a big tobacco move by convincing it's core customers that their product is safe, despite proven science and statistics.


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:10 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Location: Birthplace of Grand Funk Railroad & Mr Don Preston
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-10-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2013-06-22

My hometown made #1 on the most dangerous cities list. A few years ago they even had their own serial killer walking the streets.These days I'm peacefully living far away from all that. 8)

I do feel bad for the folks who can't afford to get out of there, especially the elderly.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:32 am 
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As gun sales have increased, and many states have weakened or loosened their laws, it should come as no surprise that...

Quote:
violent crime was up by 1.2% last year in the United States, as measured by the Federal Bureau of Investigation

http://money.msn.com/investing/americas ... ous-cities


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Or... you can believe this site


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... lent-crime


In 2011, an estimated 1,203,564 violent crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 3.8 percent from the 2010 estimate.
When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2011 estimated violent crime total was 15.4 percent below the 2007 level and 15.5 percent below the 2002 level.
There were an estimated 386.3 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2011.
Aggravated assaults accounted for the highest number of violent crimes reported to law enforcement at 62.4 percent. Robbery comprised 29.4 percent of violent crimes, forcible rape accounted for 6.9 percent, and murder accounted for 1.2 percent of estimated violent crimes in 2011.
Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.3 percent of robberies, and 21.2 percent of aggravated assaults.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Yes, I do believe the FBI's information.
Quote:
...violent crime was up by 1.2% last year in the United States, as measured by the Federal Bureau of Investigation...


...Based on the FBI Uniform Crime Report....
http://money.msn.com/investing/americas ... ous-cities



I also believe the sources sighted in the following...

10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.

By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.


Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.

Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.

Sources - Small Arms Survey, Congressional Research Service


Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements.

Sources - Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.

Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.
• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.
• In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides.


Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.

Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5


Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.


Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.

Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.


Myth #7: Guns make women safer.

Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.


Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.

Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

Per capita spending on video games - USA = $44 / Japan = $55

Civilian firearms per 100 people - USA = 88 / Japan = 0.6

Gun homicides in 2008 - USA = 11,030 / Japan = 11


Sources - PricewaterhouseCoopers, Small Arms Survey, UN Office on Drugs and Crime


Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.

Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population.
About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun.
• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each.


Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.
Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement that the Senate approve nominees.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:29 pm 
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While My Shotgun Gently Weeps

I look at you all
see the hate there that's growing
while my shotgun gently weeps

I look at the lawn
and I see it needs mowing
still my shotgun gently weeps

I don't know why
you were unloaded
you could have exploded, too

I don't know how
the shells all went missing
was someone enlisting you?

Look at you all
look at you all
in my sight

~c2013 Mydnyte Music


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:12 pm 
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In addition to the FBI's report and statistics in my post above regarding the recent increase in gun crime rates , I also believe...

The CDC's statistics...
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_10.pdf

...and the Census Bureau's statistics
http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html


...the numbers STILL don't lie. Just gun wacko's and the corporations, the advocacy groups and the Right Wing militia's that have thoroughly brainwashed them.


I heard cigarettes are good for you...the tobacco industry said so. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Does tweedle-dumb STILL actually think that a gun ban in the US would reduce firearm related deaths and/or violent crime rates?! :o

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Washington, DC & Chicago have THE strictest gun laws but yet have the highest amounts of murders and firearm related deaths compared to ANY other US city...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:02 pm 
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The statistics prove otherwise...
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you lose again...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:12 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
The statistics prove otherwise...
Image


Considering Washington, DC & Chicago have THE strictest gun laws but yet have the highest amounts of murders and firearm related deaths compared to ANY other US city...how so?


tweedle-dumb wrote:
you lose again...


Wrong...yet again.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:51 am 
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Disco Douche wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The statistics prove otherwise...
Image


Considering Washington, DC & Chicago have THE strictest gun laws but yet have the highest amounts of murders and firearm related deaths compared to ANY other US city...how so?


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
you lose again...


Wrong...yet again.


Yes, YOU are wrong again.

Remember when you used this statistic...
Disco Douche wrote:

1. As of 2011, Australia has over 22.6 million people and the US has over 311.6 million people.

...as to why gun related suicide rates are higher in the US?


The same applies to the other cities you mention. FACT is that the gun crime rates are LOWER "per capita". You can't have it both ways Disco Douche. Do you even know what the fuck "per capita" means Douche? You used it once in a post.

Feel free to compare the rates of crime versus the population size versus the gun laws versus the number of people who own guns.

http://city-crime-statistics.findthedata.org/


What a pathological liar and complete brainwashed dunce.

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Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:59 am 
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Speaking of global statistics and guns...

Quote:
The US has spent $8 trillion on the military and homeland security since 2001.

America has other threats. The true short-term danger is homegrown: More than 30,000 Americans are killed by firearms every year. An American child is 13 times more likely to be shot than a child in another industrialized country........The gun lobby, incurably ill, counters that the weapons are necessary for self-defense.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 11256.html


Thank you Thinman for pointed me towards this article.


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:59 am 
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What happened to the pie charts from USA today? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:02 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dumb wrote:
The statistics prove otherwise...


Considering Washington, DC & Chicago have THE strictest gun laws but yet have the highest amounts of murders and firearm related deaths compared to ANY other US city...how so?


tweedle-dumb wrote:
you lose again...


Wrong...yet again.


Yes, YOU are wrong again.


NO, I'm not. Those are FACTS.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Remember when you used this statistic...

Disco Boy wrote:
1. As of 2011, Australia has over 22.6 million people and the US has over 311.6 million people.

...as to why gun related suicide rates are higher in the US?

The same applies to the other cities you mention. FACT is that the gun crime rates are LOWER "per capita". You can't have it both ways Disco Douche. Do you even know what the fuck "per capita" means Douche? You used it once in a post.


That wasn't my exact claim, fuckhead. STOP quoting me OUT OF CONTEXT.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Feel free to compare the rates of crime versus the population size versus the gun laws versus the number of people who own guns.

http://city-crime-statistics.findthedata.org/


What a pathological liar and complete brainwashed dunce.


Population, crime incidents, crime rates, violent crime rates, property crime rates and the number of people who own guns don't necessarily correspond to firearm related deaths. So the data you posted does NOTHING to prove your point, you fucking idiot.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Speaking of global statistics and guns...

Quote:
America has other threats. The true short-term danger is homegrown: More than 30,000 Americans are killed by firearms every year. An American child is 13 times more likely to be shot than a child in another industrialized country........The gun lobby, incurably ill, counters that the weapons are necessary for self-defense.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 11256.html


Thank you Thinman for pointed me towards this article.


Incorrect. It's not 30,000. It's between 10,000-12,000 annually. And 75% of those deaths are suicide and/or gang related. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:28 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:

Incorrect. It's not 30,000. It's between 10,000-12,000 annually. And 75% of those deaths are suicide and/or gang related. :roll:


SPACEBROTHER's source is a well-respected German news magazine. It is also supported by this graph from which shows gun-related deaths on an annual basis from 1979-2011 with a projection for 2012-2015:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-1 ... -2015.html.
Could you please provide a source for the above 10,000-12,000 figure?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:03 am 
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Look all this gun control crapola is fine but where is the outrage over many more daily weekly , monthly and annual death by cancer, diabetes, drunk driving, and suicide? These numbers dwarf gun death.

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