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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:15 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
My views, nor your defense of gun ownership and the industry change the fact that the states with the weakest gun laws and highest ownership of guns have the highest crime rates per capita.


Bottom line and FACT:

More guns + weak gun laws = higher gun crime rates per capita


You do understand that there is no grey area in that equation, right? Like it or not, it is conclusive with a 0% margin of error. :roll:



In FACT, South Dakota has a 9.77 percent gun related crime rate. Illinois has a 8.11 percent gun crime rate. Illinois has stricter gun laws and lower gun ownerships per capita than South Dakota, which is why the crime rate in SD is significantly higher than it is in IL.





per capita and with less than 800k population that ain't many, besides why do you care?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:28 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
My views, nor your defense of gun ownership and the industry change the fact that the states with the weakest gun laws and highest ownership of guns have the highest crime rates per capita.


Bottom line and FACT:

More guns + weak gun laws = higher gun crime rates per capita


You do understand that there is no grey area in that equation, right? Like it or not, it is conclusive with a 0% margin of error. :roll:



In FACT, South Dakota has a 9.77 percent gun related crime rate. Illinois has a 8.11 percent gun crime rate. Illinois has stricter gun laws and lower gun ownerships per capita than South Dakota, which is why the crime rate in SD is significantly higher than it is in IL.





per capita and with less than 800k population that ain't many, besides why do you care?


I care because 1 gun related death is too many.

The gun death rate per capita in SD (9.77%) is nearly double that of New York (5.2%) and New Jersey (5.68%). In FACT, it's almost as high in SD as it is in NJ and NY combined. Weaker gun laws and more guns in peoples hands lead to significantly higher crime rates, regardless of the population size.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:28 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The numbers come from the CDC and law enforcement databases.

Oh!! Law enforcement databases?! Of course it's 100% accurate and true! I totally trust law enforcement databases and the CDC.

Speaking of the CDC, have you seen the interview where Zappa say's he believes it's possible that AIDS was invented in a lab and purposely spread to a certain segment of the population?
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... ng-of-aids


William S Burroughs shows you how to make shotgun art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u02kFg_nxeA#t=70
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:10 am 
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If anything, the official numbers by the CDC and law enforcement are on the low side. Not all criminal on criminal crime goes reported. It is indeed 100% certain that the numbers aren't inflated.


I don't know whether there is any truth to the claims that aids was created in a lab and introduced into the population deliberately. To entertain the possibility that it was, you would have to look at the motive as to why it would be. In this hypothetical scenario, I would conclude the reasoning behind it would be either for social (or racial and religious based) hang-ups, like hatred towards homosexuals, and/or businesses looking to profit from it.

I tend to believe that aids being put into the population deliberately by our gov't is just another conspiracy theory.

Back to the topic of guns...


About Gun Violence


America has a problem with gun violence
•One in three people in the U.S. know someone who has been shot.
•On average, 32 Americans are murdered with guns every day and 140 are treated for a gun assault in an emergency room.
•Every day on average, 51 people kill themselves with a firearm, and 45 people are shot or killed in an accident with a gun.
•The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.
•A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

Gun Violence Takes a Massive Toll on American Children
•Nearly one in four American teens have witnessed a shooting.
•An average of eight children and teens under the age of 20 are killed by guns every day.
•American children die by guns 11 times as often as children in other high-income countries.
•Youth (ages 0 to 19) in the most rural U.S. counties are as likely to die from a gunshot as those living in the most urban counties. Rural children die of more gun suicides and unintentional shooting deaths. Urban children die more often of gun homicides.
•Firearm homicide is the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle crashes) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S.
•In 2007, more pre-school-aged children (85) were killed by guns than police officers were killed in the line of duty.

Gun Violence is a Drain on U.S. Taxpayers
•Medical treatment, criminal justice proceedings, new security precautions, and reductions in quality of life are estimated to cost U.S. citizens $100 billion annually.
•The lifetime medical cost for all gun violence victims in the United States is estimated at $2.3 billion, with almost half the costs borne by taxpayers.

Americans Support Universal Background Checks
•Nine out of 10 Americans agree that we should have universal background checks, including three out of four NRA members.
•Since the Brady Law was initially passed, about 2 million attempts to purchase firearms have been blocked due to a background check. About half of these blocked attempts were by felons.
•Unfortunately, our current background check system only applies to about 60% of gun sales, leaving 40% (online sales, purchases at gun shows, etc.) without a background check.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:19 am 
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Well, as we all know, men certainly never conspire.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:31 am 
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A common argument by gun supporters and those in the industry is that gun violence is fueled by mental illness. If that is indeed the case, then there should be mandatory background checks on ALL sales, regardless, and there should be mandatory annual full mental health screenings/exams for ALL gun owners, with the costs paid for entirely by either gun owners and/or those seeking to purchase them and/or the businesses profiting from them.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Yes but why do you make you redundant posts on guns, more people die from drunk drivers, also 2 construction workers die daily, so why guns , you must dislike FZ as he was a life member of the NRA. cheated on his wife by your own logic you must lump him with Ted N

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:51 pm 
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A common argument by gun supporters and illness. If that is indeed the case, then there should be businesses profiting from them. mandatory background checks on health screenings/exams for ALL those seeking to mental gun purchase them and/or the ALL sales, the gun death rate per capita in SD (9.77%) is nearly double that of New York (5.2%) and New Jersey (5.68%). In FACT, those in the industry is that gun violence is paid for entirely by illness fueled by mental owners regardless, and there should be mandatory gun owners it's almost as high in SD as it is in NJ and NY combined. Weaker gun laws and more guns in peoples hands lead to significantly higher population size. either annual full, with the costs and/or the stats I posted above are from OFFICIAL sources Yet, once again, you post NO linkage (official or otherwise) confirming gun lobby affiliated researchers in Australia.
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:18 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Yes but why do you make you redundant posts on guns, more people die from drunk drivers, also 2 construction workers die daily, so why guns , you must dislike FZ as he was a life member of the NRA. cheated on his wife by your own logic you must lump him with Ted N


More people drive and more people drink than there are people who own guns. Ted Nugent is a pedophile. Frank Zappa was never a member of the NRA. The redundancy lies with the inability to accept the proven data that weak gun laws and higher ownerships do indeed lead to more gun related crimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:28 pm 
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Space Boy Sierra wrote:
More people drive and more people drink than new security precautions per capita and with less than 800k population that ain't many. More guns + weak gun laws =EVERY point I've made throughout this thread. can't argue with the numbers if they don't talk. Gun related crime rates in states with less regulation and higher ownerships currently over 315 million people in the US, so of course there are technically more firearm related obsession with gun owners.


I agree!


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:52 pm 
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ROTFLMFAO at SPACEBROTHER's (aka, tweedle-dumb), "official numbers" and that they include a, "0% margin of error."

Comdey fucking gold. :mrgreen:

And as usual, Caputh makes NO sense whatsoever with his typical sinewy semantic hogwash. :roll:

These two just can't be for real.

Anyway...

Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I'm not sure why you think your above statement detracts from anything I've stated.

I'm not sure why you think you're a mindreader, insofar as I didn't offer any opinion whatsoever in my post. I merely posted another FACT.

:|


I don't think I'm a mind-reader. And again, that FACT doesn't detract from ANYTHING I've stated. This is why I'm wondering why you even posted it when quoting one of my previous posts?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:13 pm 
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I'm glad you find the accurate numbers comical Disco Douche. Proving you wrong again and again is hysterical. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
FICTION:

After Australia's firearm ban in 1997, violent crime increased over 40% and rapes increased over 30%, yet the amount of deaths due to firearm related causes virtually remained the same.



"Claims that Australian gun laws have increased crime are pure spin and deception. They say more about American partisan politics than about the reality in Australia.
The USA has 14.3 times Australia’s population, 104 times our total firearm-caused deaths, and 294 times Australia’s firearm homicide rate. In 1979, 705 people died from gunshots in Australia. Despite population growth, in 2003, this number had fallen to 289.

Gun lobby affiliated researchers in Australia have sought to repudiate these outcomes using embarrassingly naïve methods that have been heavily criticised in the research literature. While news of the latest gun massacre in the United States remains depressingly common, Australians today enjoy one of the safest communities on earth. John Howard’s first and most popular law reform stands as the world’s most successful reform of gun laws."


Dude, we went over this MONTHS ago: the stats I posted above are from OFFICIAL sources (as well as the other stats I've posted). Yet, once again, you post NO linkage (official or otherwise) confirming yours.

..



Disco Dude, Maaate, since YOU haven't posted them YET, I am guessing that the source of the 'Official' statistics you quote above would be:

"The American National Rifle Association claimed in 2000 that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws.
The federal Attorney General Daryl Williams accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to "remove any reference to Australia" from its website."

Here are Daryl's credentials:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Williams (and 'Liberal' Party in Aust. = Democrats in USA)

'The NRA has the largest grass roots vote delivery network in the US, and promised $40m to defeat Obama'... yet they still need to tell lies? Oh wait, maybe that's how they got so...never mind!


Dinky-di FACTs: " After Port Arthur (1996), Australia banned semi-automatic longarms, but did not extend the ban to semi-automatic pistols.
The central provisions of the reforms were the ban on semi-automatic rifles and pump action shotguns, accompanied by gun amnesties and two national buybacks. Because of their rapid firepower, semi-automatics are the guns of choice for those intent on killing many people quickly.
John Howard introduced the reforms to prevent US-style mass killings, not primarily to prevent criminal or domestic gun homicides or gun suicides."
The gun buy-back scheme started on 1 October 1996 and concluded on 30 September 1997. The buyback purchased and destroyed more than 631,000 firearms, mostly semi-auto .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns.


And why would banning this Jumbo sized weaponry cause rapes to spike by 'over 30%' as 'quoted' by you above (from 'official sources) - unless we'd all been stalking around with it tucked in our panty-hose/g-strings/handbags??


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:09 am 
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So shooting and killing one person is OK, it's just shooting a whole bunch of them that is out of the question?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:39 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Space Boy Sierra wrote:
More people drive and more people drink than new security precautions per capita and with less than 800k population that ain't many. More guns + weak gun laws =EVERY point I've made throughout this thread. can't argue with the numbers if they don't talk. Gun related crime rates in states with less regulation and higher ownerships currently over 315 million people in the US, so of course there are technically more firearm related obsession with gun owners.


I agree!






very funny, why do you care? SB check the nra data base FZ was a life member.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:42 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:

And as usual, Caputh makes NO sense whatsoever with his typical sinewy semantic hogwash. :roll:



Well, this isn't exactly rocket science DB, nor does it have anything to do with semantics. I'll try and make it a bit more simple for you.
Part One
1. You ("Disco Boy") think no guns in Australia after 1996.
2. You ("Disco Boy") think less crime in Australia after 1996.
3. You ("Disco Boy") think Australia "small".
4. You ("Disco Boy") think US big.
5. You ("Disco Boy") think comparison between US and Australia not possible.

Part Two
1. You ("Disco Boy") think no guns in Australia after 1996.
2. You ("Disco Boy") think more crime in Australia after 1996.
3. You ("Disco Boy") think Australia "small".
4. You ("Disco Boy") think US big.
5. You ("Disco Boy") think comparison between US and Australia possible.

Me ("Caputh") think not logical.

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Last edited by Caputh on Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:56 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
SB check the nra data base FZ was a life member.


Got a link BRAVO?

If so, it would mean Gail was not really telling the truth when I asked her. http://www.zappa.com/gzsez/questions/re-frank-zappa/

Perhaps she doesn't like being on their hate list along with Dweezil?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... 06-names/#

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:13 am 
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No link I believe you can go to the nra site, check archives, as life members are listed, they may not go back that far on line, Mark Farmer talks about it in a video that was on this site recently if that helps. FZ was very open minded, when looked at with out all the political crap, i guess i'm not surprised.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:22 am 
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I see you do not agree with Mark F, well, what gail says is accurate , I don't think any one has said Frank was life long member, I am not, but.....life member, is a financial designation, once you pay that donation from then on you are a life member, at the time frank supposedly joined the cost was around 300 bucks, and he obviously thought it a good thing, as for Gail and his kid's i am sure they are not supporters imho they make a mockery of Franks political thinking much the same as most on this site. The man could not be pigeon holed. It would appear to be the opposite for his family.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:03 am 
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I have no idea if FZ was an NRA member, but it would make me wonder why he wrote this in Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk:

Some folks don't want prayer in school
We'd need an ark to survive the drool
Of Micro-publicans, raised on hate,
And 'Jimbo-Jumbo' when they graduate
Convinced they are 'The Chosen Ones'
And all their parents carry guns,
(Hey, look! Godzilla!)
And hold them cards in the N.R.A.
(Ah, hellfire, Melvin, hey heh!)
(With their fingers on the trigger
("It's hot.")
When they kneel and pray)
("I mean that . . . ")

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:53 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I see you do not agree with Mark F, well, what gail says is accurate , I don't think any one has said Frank was life long member, I am not, but.....life member, is a financial designation, once you pay that donation from then on you are a life member, at the time frank supposedly joined the cost was around 300 bucks, and he obviously thought it a good thing, as for Gail and his kid's i am sure they are not supporters imho they make a mockery of Franks political thinking much the same as most on this site. The man could not be pigeon holed. It would appear to be the opposite for his family.


I see what you mean and I suppose one could read Gails answer to my question as being ambiguous. I did go the NRA site to check, but couldn't find any list of names myself. I agree with you that Frank could not be pigeon-holed and I'm open-minded myself about the question whether he was a member or not, but would like to see more evidence. As Arkay points out, the only reference to the NRA I've also been able to find by him is a seemingly negative one.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:58 am 
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Well he certainly was not anti gun as he employed a body guard after the stage incident , unless we are going down the road that there is some need for guns , and who decides what those need are.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:06 am 
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Some of these knuckle-draggers get so defensive. That's right - I'm talkin' about you!

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:09 am 
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Frank Zappa was never a member of the NRA.

The entire Zappa family is indeed listed on the NRA's enemies list though...
http://www.conservativedailynews.com/20 ... advocates/

I posted a quote by Frank Zappa a while back where he slams gun owners. I'll have to do some searching to find it and will re-post it when I get a chance. It may have even been from the Real FZ Book.


edit -

Still looking for a specific quote, but found this one in TRFZB page 239 chapter 13: "All About Schmucks"

"Forget about Iranian stupidity, or Chinese, or Russian, or South American, or Canadian stupidity - our very own home-made incompetence get The Grand Prize."

We're not talking light-hearted foolishness here - when we go for stupid we go for BIG STUPID - like people who shoot at you on the freeway, or the Rambos and Rambo-ettes who blow people away in shopping malls and fast-food restaurants with automatic weapons."


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:35 am 
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