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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:37 am 
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Little_Sally wrote:
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I'm afraid to say that you're welcome to both IMO. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:50 am 
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This two-year old had a choice, huh? :roll:

2-Year-Old Broken Arrow Boy Dies In Accidental Shooting

BROKEN ARROW, Oklahoma -
The Broken Arrow Police Department says a two-year-old boy died after an accidental shooting Tuesday evening.

Police said officers were called to a home in the 3500 block of East Aurora at about 8:55 p.m. Officers learned the child had been holding the gun when it discharged striking him in the chest.

They say the child was taken to a Broken Arrow hospital where he died.

Police did not say how he had gotten hold of the handgun. News On 6 reporter Dan Bewley has learned the handgun belonged to the parents of the victim.

Police said the shooting was just a tragic accident.

http://www.newson6.com/story/24952029/b ... discharges


The parents did have a choice, and now their 2 year old child is dead because of it.


Frank Zappa was right...the BIG STUPID indeed.


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:16 am 
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Ok LS, what are your thoughts about the proven fact that gun crime rates are significantly higher in states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships per capita than states with strong gun laws and lower ownership rates per capita? Why is this the case? Adding more guns and stripping away gun laws has proven to increase gun crime, so what's your solution to decrease gun crime?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...from the previous page

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Frank Zappa was never a member of the NRA.

The entire Zappa family is indeed listed on the NRA's enemies list though...
http://www.conservativedailynews.com/20 ... advocates/

I posted a quote by Frank Zappa a while back where he slams gun owners. I'll have to do some searching to find it and will re-post it when I get a chance. It may have even been from the Real FZ Book.


edit -

Still looking for a specific quote, but found this one in TRFZB page 239 chapter 13: "All About Schmucks"

"Forget about Iranian stupidity, or Chinese, or Russian, or South American, or Canadian stupidity - our very own home-made incompetence get The Grand Prize."

We're not talking light-hearted foolishness here - when we go for stupid we go for BIG STUPID - like people who shoot at you on the freeway, or the Rambos and Rambo-ettes who blow people away in shopping malls and fast-food restaurants with automatic weapons."


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:03 am 
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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... Wc&cad=rja

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:14 am 
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Interesting (and honestly balanced) link.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:46 am 
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Little_Sally wrote:
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Tell me thats not oscar pistorius?
And that meme is complete shite.
Why not 'parents, get your kids on crack before their friends do'.
haha
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 am 
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I must admit, the adult does like a bit like Pistorius and I'm not sure whether his expression is entirely trustworthy; still, keep 'em coming LS - I love 'em.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:50 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CD8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politifact.com%2Foregon%2Fstatements%2F2013%2Fsep%2F07%2Fdoug-whitsett%2Fhave-gun-related-homicides-other-serious-crimes-de%2F&ei=pvIhU4feIaXhyQHik4DICA&usg=AFQjCNHoIkcoUCTu6FuhiYsdkTu24DMtAw&bvm=bv.62922401,d.aWc&cad=rja

Caputh wrote:
Interesting (and honestly balanced) link.



The article uses the averages of the entire country on a whole, including the most populous states with strict gun laws and lower ownership rates like NY, IL, CA, CT, VT, MA, NJ, PA, OH, MD, WI, MN, HI, ME, NH, RI and DE. The population of the USA as of 2013 was 315,482,390. The combined populations of the states with strict gun laws and lower ownerships and crime per capita are much higher than the states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships and higher crime per capita.

When the numbers are broken down by region, many states have individually seen increases in gun crime rates.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mu ... er-100-000

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws-matter ... -violence/

http://www.vpc.org/fadeathchart09.htm


Gun advocate statisticians will always average in the gun crime rate from the states with strong gun laws/low ownership rates/lower crime rates per capita, which have significantly higher populations to water down their data from the states with weak gun laws/higher ownership rates/higher crime rates per capita with significantly lower populations.




It's remarkably easy to punch huge holes through the argument that more guns and less gun laws lowers crime rates. When you separate the bullshit from the facts regarding the full breakdown of numbers, it becomes painfully obvious that the gun industry is running the biggest corporate scam in the history of human civilization. After all, it seems to be an instinctive trait for many people to put the value of inanimate objects above that of human life. Sometimes people put no value to anything and thus, have no values...I now conclude my life philosophy rant in this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:59 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Ok LS, what are your thoughts about the proven fact that gun crime rates are significantly higher in states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships per capita than states with strong gun laws and lower ownership rates per capita? Why is this the case? Adding more guns and stripping away gun laws has proven to increase gun crime, so what's your solution to decrease gun crime?



What matters to me is that my family and and myself are safer with guns to guard our compound and the criminals around me are less safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:27 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:

The article uses the averages of the entire country on a whole, including the most populous states with strict gun laws and lower ownership rates like NY, IL, CA, CT, VT, MA, NJ, PA, OH, MD, WI, MN, HI, ME, NH, RI and DE. The population of the USA as of 2013 was 315,482,390. The combined populations of the states with strict gun laws and lower ownerships and crime per capita are much higher than the states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships and higher crime per capita.



I disagree that that is the thrust of the article. It is mainly concerned, as far as I can tell, with the truth of a particular statement made by a politician. The statistics are not questioned in the article, but the authors point out:

"We have no idea if society is safer as a result of more responsible families owning guns. It’s not certain who owns firearms or how responsible they are. Also, some people would chalk up a decrease in firearm related homicides and crimes to better policing or to a decline in the crack cocaine epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s, or to other factors."

i.e. they consider that many other factors could be, but not necessarily are important.

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Last edited by Caputh on Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:28 pm 
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More guns for peoples in a country like USA, advertising violence in TV, films, etc... is like giving more sugar to a diabetic.
Don't see any good in that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Little_Sally wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Ok LS, what are your thoughts about the proven fact that gun crime rates are significantly higher in states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships per capita than states with strong gun laws and lower ownership rates per capita? Why is this the case? Adding more guns and stripping away gun laws has proven to increase gun crime, so what's your solution to decrease gun crime?



What matters to me is that my family and and myself are safer with guns to guard our compound and the criminals around me are less safe.



So basically, you own guns because you live in fear of others with guns. You're what they call in the industry, a grazer, or steady customer. The industry has created a fear for you, and scared you into buying their product. You've been duped and you're not alone.

Statistically, because you have a gun in your home, it is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Having a gun around incase a criminal attacks is a good idea. Will a criminal attack? who knows.
Its kind of like having a fire extinguisher. Will there be a fire? Who knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Self control of impulse would be a great idea to hone in on.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:57 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
I'm glad you find the accurate numbers comical Disco Douche.


I NEVER said that, asswipe.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Proving you wrong again and again is hysterical. :lol:


ROTFLMFAO! You couldn't win an argument with me if your life depended on it. :mrgreen:

But I do still find it fucking hilarious that you COMPLETELY ignore the stats I've posted.

Caputh and you bend the fuck out of the truth so much, that the truth is laughing its fucking ass off...

phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Dude, Maaate, since YOU haven't posted them YET


Yes, I have. You obviously haven't read this entire thread.

phydeaux3 wrote:
And why would banning this Jumbo sized weaponry cause rapes to spike by 'over 30%' as 'quoted' by you above (from 'official sources) - unless we'd all been stalking around with it tucked in our panty-hose/g-strings/handbags??


Maybe because now there aren't nearly as many Australians armed as there were and hence they can't protect themselves from criminal activity like the above, genius? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:48 pm 
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The problem must be wiped out at the root.

We need background checks on all potential mothers and fathers to see what their intention/motivation is for bringing yet another human being into this so called "world". Most should, and will, fail. Death Penalty for anyone having children without first passing all mandatory background checks. Death Penalty for their child/children as well. Overpopulation is the problem that makes all of the other problems insoluble.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Disco Douche wrote:
You couldn't win an argument with me if your life depended on it.

Image

Ahhhh Delusional Boy. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Everybody on the forum has proven you wrong at one time or another.....bwahahahahahaha....actually every time and another. The stats you posted don't change the FACT that the states with the highest gun related crime rates per capita have the weakest gun laws and highest ownerships per capita.


ONE.MORE.ONE.MORE.ONE.MORE.TIME.FOR.THE.WORLD

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mu ... er-100-000

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws-matter ... -violence/

http://www.vpc.org/fadeathchart09.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
phydeaux3 wrote:
And why would banning this Jumbo sized weaponry cause rapes to spike by 'over 30%' as 'quoted' by you above (from 'official sources) - unless we'd all been stalking around with it tucked in our panty-hose/g-strings/handbags??


Maybe because now there aren't nearly as many Australians armed as there were and hence they can't protect themselves from criminal activity like the above, genius? :roll:



Hmmmmnnnn - Disco - SWIIIFFTT to behold - Not Very :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:01 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Caputh and you bend the fuck out of the truth so much, that the truth is laughing its fucking ass off...



How right you are! In future, I will be following the lead given by your own sweet self in posts such as...

Disco Boy wrote:
Just to let everyone know, I've placed Caputh (the original tweedle-dee) and SPACEBROTHER (tweedle-dumb) on my ignore list because I'm absolutely sick of their delusional and deceptive BS. So I won't be participating in any more meaninglessly lengthy flame wars...


and...

Disco Boy wrote:
Again, the reason why I haven't posted your quote is simply because I can't find it or that you deleted it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:40 am 
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Hows about this: the vast majority of the human race ain't 'too' bad really, and this perceived threat requiring us to be armed to the teeth doesn't really exist.
I can't think of anyone I know in UK who has a gun for anything other than popping off fuzzy creatures, and I can't think of anyone I know in UK who has been shot at. Thats 50 years of exposure to this perceived risk, in big cities like London, Bristol, smaller towns / cities too, and the countryside where I've lived for the last 10 years.
Reap what you sow.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:32 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Little_Sally wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Ok LS, what are your thoughts about the proven fact that gun crime rates are significantly higher in states with weak gun laws and higher ownerships per capita than states with strong gun laws and lower ownership rates per capita? Why is this the case? Adding more guns and stripping away gun laws has proven to increase gun crime, so what's your solution to decrease gun crime?



What matters to me is that my family and and myself are safer with guns to guard our compound and the criminals around me are less safe.



So basically, you own guns because you live in fear of others with guns. You're what they call in the industry, a grazer, or steady customer. The industry has created a fear for you, and scared you into buying their product. You've been duped and you're not alone.

Statistically, because you have a gun in your home, it is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

Sounds good to me and I am not scared of you....well maybe just a little...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:59 am 
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deuce wrote:
Hows about this: the vast majority of the human race ain't 'too' bad really, and this perceived threat requiring us to be armed to the teeth doesn't really exist.
I can't think of anyone I know in UK who has a gun for anything other than popping off fuzzy creatures, and I can't think of anyone I know in UK who has been shot at. Thats 50 years of exposure to this perceived risk, in big cities like London, Bristol, smaller towns / cities too, and the countryside where I've lived for the last 10 years.
Reap what you sow.
TT



That's the crux of the biscuit. The fact that makes pro gun advocate heads spin is that places with tighter gun related regulations and laws and lower ownerships per capita have far lower crime rates. I agree with your entire post. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:07 am 
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Meanwhile...

Mother sues Missouri shop for selling gun later used in murder

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - A Missouri gun shop is facing a wrongful death lawsuit after selling a handgun to a woman who is charged with using it to murder her father.

The suit comes at a time of growing concern about the mental state of people who perpetrate gun violence. Gunmen in shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut and at a movie theater outside of Denver, for example, were described later as having psychological issues.

More than a dozen wrongful death lawsuits are pending against gun dealers, some involving sales to customers who were not mentally stable, said Jonathan Lowy, a Brady Center lawyer who helped file the Missouri lawsuit.

"The store certainly could have refused to sell this gun and they should have," Lowy said.

Weathers faces a charge of first-degree murder in the June 2012 killing of her father, Tex Delana, 60, according to court records. Weathers is accused of shooting Delana in the back of the head with the .45-caliber pistol two days after she bought it at Odessa Gun & Pawn in Odessa, Missouri.

Weathers has pleaded not guilty to the murder charge. Reuters could not reach her attorney on Thursday after normal business hours.

An employee who answered the phone at Odessa Gun & Pawn on Thursday said no one at the store had comment on the lawsuit, which names the store and three managers. The lawsuit was filed on Wednesday in the Circuit Court of Lafayette County in Lexington.

Weathers developed a high level of paranoia in 2006, was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2011, and hospitalized on several occasions for suicidal tendencies, the lawsuit said.

The Social Security Administration determined she was "severely mentally ill," the lawsuit states.

"Delana emphatically and urgently requested that Odessa not sell Weathers a gun because of the great likelihood that Weathers would use the gun to shoot herself or others," the lawsuit states.

According to the lawsuit, a gun shop employee told Janet Delana that the store had "little control" over whether to sell her a gun. But the lawsuit says Missouri law allows a gun shop employee to use "individual judgment" in refusing sale to some customers.

http://news.msn.com/us/mother-sues-miss ... -in-murder




I hope everybody involved as victims in gun crimes and their families flood the courts with lawsuits. The gun industry and ALL gun owners should be fully responsible for ALL gun related legal, medical and law enforcement costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:31 pm 
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deuce wrote:
Reap what you sow.

That would be nice.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I agree with your entire post.

I won't hold this against you, Deuce.


BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
why do you care?

I care because my fellow countrymen are fighting amongst each other over distractions which they are being fed from a government run media. They set this up so that you would fight over it and lose focus on what really matters:
Getting along is step number one toward reducing gun violence.

Laws don't mean shit unless they are enforced. It's a non issue. Guns are not going away. Why did we invent them? Because we are the problem. Don't blame our machines.

I see both sides of this.


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