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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:09 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
I hope this works out. As Zappa fans, are we not all free thinkers? We get enough shit from mainstream society, because we don't fit in. We don't need infighting amongst ourselves. Just my opinion. Peace to all my fellow Zappa freaks. :smoke:

I'm just trying to give Mr. Maps some helpful hints. Of course he is free to post anything he wants and I am free to reply as I see fit. In Mr. Maps case, it was either try to give him a little advice or ignore him completely like what is happening on the secret word threads. I'm just trying to teach him some table manners so he can sit comfortably at the adult table.

Btw, I have always resented the idea that you have to be some kind of freak to appreciate Zappa. I like being part of society. FZ has been my favorite form of entertainment since I was 15. That's almost 38 years. As a byproduct of the great music, humor, and social commentary I have been exposed to some great creative and critical thinking that I may not have found elsewhere. I use that influence in my everyday life (and honestly, I live a pretty mainstream life - at least on the surface). Nobody gives me shit because I like FZ. Frankly, most people don't care.

I appreciate you trying to be a peacemaker, Philo. You are a good man but there is no battle going on here. Peace, Philo. Peace, Mr. Maps. And peace to all the Zappa freaks and non-freaks everywhere!


Out of respect for Plook , I'm bringing this to my thread because I'm not done yet. Remember. Nothing is off topic here. Just respect for other people's opinions is all I ask. You may like being part of the society you live in, but I don't like the society I live in. I didn't actually mean we are freaks for liking Zappa. It was a metaphor. I have to live in an area of the country that does not appreciate free thinkers. If you are not a republican Christian, then you don't fit in here. Nobody here gives a shit if I like Zappa. They don't even know who he is. They just know that I am not sitting in one of those pews on Sunday, so I must be fucked up. That kind of shit leaves a bad taste in my mouth bro.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Did you ever consider moving? I know sometimes we get locked into our jobs and responsibilities and that makes it easier said than done. I live in a conservative area but I choose to live in a college town which is somewhat progressive, 20 minutes away from the town where I work which is quite different. I was speaking of society as a whole. You know, I just think it's nice that we have systems in place where the trash gets picked up. I feel much the same way about right-wing Christians as you do but if we can stay away from each other then I don't have too much of a problem. As far as the freak thing, I know that's a common way to refer to FZ fans (Zappa Freaks) like Grateful Dead fans are Deadheads. I just don't like the age old misconception that Frank was some kind of weirdo or worse a drug abuser. To me, part of the appeal of Frank is that he was a very sane and intelligent man. Most of his fans reflect that, I think. Go to a ZPZ show now and it's mostly middle age men who look like they have jobs to go to the next day.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:31 pm 
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I moved away from here when I was 18. Actually, I stole my mom's car at 15 and tried to move away then. But, they caught me in Milwaukee, WI. Did a little time in reform school for that one. I moved back here so my parents could be around their grandson, and I knew I could get a job that would allow me to raise him comfortably. Trust me bro. If it weren't for that, I would be so fucking out of here.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Zappa was a freak. His first LP was called Freak Out and contained a map for places people could go to freak out. And call me crazy but I think we all can deal with our own trash without a "system". It's way too late now, however. It's too late because all of the yuppies bought into the concept of a society. Listen to FZ's song When Yuppies Go To Hell for more info. Society was created to keep the few in power over the masses. Society created ghettos and class warfare. Society allows an FZ to scrape by while it worships the likes of U2. Society backs the working man into a corner. Keeps him on a forklift.

People at ZPZ shows are not typical Frank Zappa fans. My friends and acquaintances who love Zappa, if they bother to think about ZPZ at all, resent ZPZ. They resent ZPZ for watering down and selling something that was once original and pure. Much like society waters down the ugly reality of life, something Frank never did. I'm not saying that we should dwell on the negative but brushing it under the rug or ignoring it is making it worse. It's wrong. I resent sugarcoating society.

Where's the kap't when you need him?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:09 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Zappa was a freak. His first LP was called Freak Out and contained a map for places people could go to freak out. And call me crazy but I think we all can deal with our own trash without a "system". It's way too late now, however. It's too late because all of the yuppies bought into the concept of a society. Listen to FZ's song When Yuppies Go To Hell for more info. Society was created to keep the few in power over the masses. Society created ghettos and class warfare. Society allows an FZ to scrape by while it worships the likes of U2. Society backs the working man into a corner. Keeps him on a forklift.


Where's the kap't when you need him?


Fuck U2, fuck society, and fuck a forklift!

And where is Kapt? How long does it take to fix the starship? Our maintenance dept. could have had his shit running by now. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Ya all are crazy...turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals, by the end of the first winter at a minimum over half of everyone you know and love will be dead...the trash will be the least of your troubles...I'm not complaining to much, infrastructure is key... :idea:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:22 pm 
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As I said, it's way too late to turn the power off. I know that. We just have to ride this madness out. I'm with you, Plook. All we can do is take care of the people we love and respect all living things. But acknowledge the insanity. That's what Zappa was doing. He was right.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:30 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
As I said, it's way too late to turn the power off. I know that. We just have to ride this madness out. I'm with you, Plook. All we can do is take care of the people we love and respect all living things. But acknowledge the insanity. That's what Zappa was doing. He was right.



No doubt Downer, as you know I work in an industry that allows me to know how false the front is...but a nice sunny day at the beach sure makes it go down better... :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:49 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Ya all are crazy...turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals, by the end of the first winter at a minimum over half of everyone you know and love will be dead...the trash will be the least of your troubles...I'm not complaining to much, infrastructure is key... :idea:


Are you saying if we cut off welfare and stop supporting the deadbeats, they will come take our shit? I've been saying that for fucking years, and people call me crazy.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:37 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Zappa was a freak. His first LP was called Freak Out and contained a map for places people could go to freak out. And call me crazy but I think we all can deal with our own trash without a "system". It's way too late now, however. It's too late because all of the yuppies bought into the concept of a society. Listen to FZ's song When Yuppies Go To Hell for more info. Society was created to keep the few in power over the masses. Society created ghettos and class warfare. Society allows an FZ to scrape by while it worships the likes of U2. Society backs the working man into a corner. Keeps him on a forklift.

People at ZPZ shows are not typical Frank Zappa fans. My friends and acquaintances who love Zappa, if they bother to think about ZPZ at all, resent ZPZ. They resent ZPZ for watering down and selling something that was once original and pure. Much like society waters down the ugly reality of life, something Frank never did. I'm not saying that we should dwell on the negative but brushing it under the rug or ignoring it is making it worse. It's wrong. I resent sugarcoating society.

Where's the kap't when you need him?

Geez, give me a fuckin' break. You are easily the most delusional person I have come across on this forum (and there have been a few). If you want to take the "Life Sucks" credo and ride that to your grave that's your choice. There are better options. I wish you improved mental wellness and happiness. You need it.

Downer (so aptly named): Hey, I don't want to breed any animosity or hostility with you so let's just call it a day. We are so not on the same page that it's not even worth talking about. Have a good one (or a bad one since that seems to be your preference). Peace!


Last edited by KUIII on Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:01 pm 
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Philostopher wrote:
Plook wrote:
Ya all are crazy...turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals, by the end of the first winter at a minimum over half of everyone you know and love will be dead...the trash will be the least of your troubles...I'm not complaining to much, infrastructure is key... :idea:


Are you saying if we cut off welfare and stop supporting the deadbeats, they will come take our shit? I've been saying that for fucking years, and people call me crazy.

Society has to deal with all of it's ills one way or another. Criminals, homeless, mental illness, drug casualties, etc. all have to be addressed by society. There are a lot of tough questions and debates about how to deal with these issues but the people that are trying to solve these problems are a part of society. FZ (as if I need FZ to back me up) always said you should try to effect change from within. Zappa would be the last guy you would see at an occupy whatever movement.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:14 am 
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Plook wrote:
turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals

we are three decent meals away from anarchy

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:15 am 
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KUIII wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
Plook wrote:
Ya all are crazy...turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals, by the end of the first winter at a minimum over half of everyone you know and love will be dead...the trash will be the least of your troubles...I'm not complaining to much, infrastructure is key... :idea:


Are you saying if we cut off welfare and stop supporting the deadbeats, they will come take our shit? I've been saying that for fucking years, and people call me crazy.

Society has to deal with all of it's ills one way or another. Criminals, homeless, mental illness, drug casualties, etc. all have to be addressed by society. There are a lot of tough questions and debates about how to deal with these issues but the people that are trying to solve these problems are a part of society. FZ (as if I need FZ to back me up) always said you should try to effect change from within. Zappa would be the last guy you would see at an occupy whatever movement.


I agree that society has to deal with these issues, but what are we going to do when the middle class can no longer support everyone? Because we all know that the rich people are too busy finding loopholes to escape their responsibility in this situation. And, the people trying to solve these problems are not living in the same society you and I live in. Don't kid yourself, and I say that with all respect to you.


Last edited by Philostopher on Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:42 am 
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KUIII wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Zappa was a freak. His first LP was called Freak Out and contained a map for places people could go to freak out. And call me crazy but I think we all can deal with our own trash without a "system". It's way too late now, however. It's too late because all of the yuppies bought into the concept of a society. Listen to FZ's song When Yuppies Go To Hell for more info. Society was created to keep the few in power over the masses. Society created ghettos and class warfare. Society allows an FZ to scrape by while it worships the likes of U2. Society backs the working man into a corner. Keeps him on a forklift.

People at ZPZ shows are not typical Frank Zappa fans. My friends and acquaintances who love Zappa, if they bother to think about ZPZ at all, resent ZPZ. They resent ZPZ for watering down and selling something that was once original and pure. Much like society waters down the ugly reality of life, something Frank never did. I'm not saying that we should dwell on the negative but brushing it under the rug or ignoring it is making it worse. It's wrong. I resent sugarcoating society.

Where's the kap't when you need him?

Geez, give me a fuckin' break. You are easily the most delusional person I have come across on this forum (and there have been a few). If you want to take the "Life Sucks" credo and ride that to your grave that's your choice. There are better options. I wish you improved mental wellness and happiness. You need it.

Downer (so aptly named): Hey, I don't want to breed any animosity or hostility with you so let's just call it a day. We are so not on the same page that it's not even worth talking about. Have a good one (or a bad one since that seems to be your preference). Peace!


So you see downer as a pessimist, when I see him as a realist? Interesting. I can think of two people on this forum that are easily more delusional than downer, but I don't find him delusional. I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree with it on this one.

I do disagree with downer about Zappa Plays Zappa, but I also respect his opinion on that matter as well. He is entitled to feel that way. If I actually had some friends who were into Zappa at all, they might have the same opinion as downer on ZPZ. So, I have to respect his position.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:11 am 
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Thanks, Philo. I'm no pessimist.

If the house is on fire and I tell you the house is on fire that does not make me a pessimist. I don't think KUIII gets it. Maybe he just can't smell the smoke. Or he doesn't want to smell it.

If I'm a pessimist then KUIII is a delusionist. Or just in denial. Or he just doesn't give a shit about the billions who have been deceived by the system. Perhaps it's because he is doing alright in the system. I'm doing fine, too. But I see many good people, people who are doing the "right" things, down on their knees trying not to give up. They are not on welfare, not on drugs, not drunks. They are fucked over.

I hesitate to bring FZ into this but he could very easily be labeled a pessimist. Do I need to give examples? In reality, FZ was no pessimist. He was just telling us the house is on fire. I might bitch but I'm doing something about it. I am very careful who I give my money to. And I treat all living things with respect. I try to give more than I take. I cherish my loved ones and I am fair and honest in my business dealings. I am no stranger to tragedy or grief. My perspective is accurate.


It's way too late to go back in time and fix all of society's fuck ups. Most of these horrible realities have been brought on by greed. Most industrial advances were made for profit not for the good of mankind. The least we can do now is admit it.

I don't come here to fight but sometimes I can't believe what I read. This is a Zappa forum not a Walmart or Disneyland forum.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:33 am 
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The house is definitely on fire bro, and we don't have enough firefighters to put it out. How come other countries have found a way to deal with these social issues, and we can't? Because the engineers of our train, don't know how to drive the mother fucker.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:40 am 
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^Indeed. The engineers are blinded by greed.

Unlike them, I try to see things from ALL sides. Not just my side.

There's one good thing about suffering, though. It opens your eyes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:54 am 
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I don't know how many countries have sorted these issues - the germans maybe?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:23 pm 
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deuce wrote:
I don't know how many countries have sorted these issues - the germans maybe?


For one, Canadiens have figured out health care better than we have. Several European countries have figured out a way to address drug problems better than us. I could go on, but you're making me think too much on my day off. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Philostopher wrote:
For one, Canadiens ...

DB being the chief reformer....

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm 
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deuce wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
For one, Canadiens ...

DB being the chief reformer....


I didn't say that, but there are other Canadien forum members that I have much respect for. And, I still stand by my statement they have a better grasp on health care than America. If you can prove me wrong, I'm open to that too.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:49 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Thanks, Philo. I'm no pessimist.

If the house is on fire and I tell you the house is on fire that does not make me a pessimist. I don't think KUIII gets it. Maybe he just can't smell the smoke. Or he doesn't want to smell it.

If I'm a pessimist then KUIII is a delusionist. Or just in denial. Or he just doesn't give a shit about the billions who have been deceived by the system. Perhaps it's because he is doing alright in the system. I'm doing fine, too. But I see many good people, people who are doing the "right" things, down on their knees trying not to give up. They are not on welfare, not on drugs, not drunks. They are fucked over.

I hesitate to bring FZ into this but he could very easily be labeled a pessimist. Do I need to give examples? In reality, FZ was no pessimist. He was just telling us the house is on fire. I might bitch but I'm doing something about it. I am very careful who I give my money to. And I treat all living things with respect. I try to give more than I take. I cherish my loved ones and I am fair and honest in my business dealings. I am no stranger to tragedy or grief. My perspective is accurate.


It's way too late to go back in time and fix all of society's fuck ups. Most of these horrible realities have been brought on by greed. Most industrial advances were made for profit not for the good of mankind. The least we can do now is admit it.

I don't come here to fight but sometimes I can't believe what I read. This is a Zappa forum not a Walmart or Disneyland forum.



Unfortunately one of the side effects of the crash was a general purging of about 10% of all jobs, yes more were lost, but those 10% will never come back and the other unfortunate thing is anyone who has not worked for a big company for 2 years or more will never get one of those jobs again, they are now considered unemployable... :(

I am not saying it’s right but it is the adjustment the economy made, yes it would have been far better that the overpaid fucks got screwed, but they didn't... :P

It is just the way it is and has always been, in fact no time in history has ever afford people other than the elite more opportunity than the last 100 years...is it perfect no, but it is still the best it has ever been...and I for one don't want it fucked up by some right wing or left wing whack-a-doddles...that's all I got, I will leave now... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:12 pm 
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You are free to stay here anytime. I agree with you. If the overpaid fucks had gotten screwed, you're 10% would have been way higher. I would possibly say that number might be a bit low though? I said possibly.

I am doing ok myself right now, but came very close to losing my job during the crash. Were it not for the tenure I had, I would have been gone. Guess what they are doing now? They are systematically looking to replace workers that have 10+ years of tenure, and replace them with workers from temp agencies. Then, they don't have to worry about covering for our 4 weeks vacation. People with 20+ years get 5 weeks.

If I weren't still performing job duties that I took on during the crash, they probably would have phased me out by now. But since it would take 2 or more people to handle my job responsibilities, they keep me around.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:17 pm 
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deuce wrote:
Plook wrote:
turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals

we are three decent meals away from anarchy

I only skipped lunch today and I'm already starting to get a little grouchy. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:28 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
deuce wrote:
Plook wrote:
turn the power off for one month and you'll have wondering hordes of cannibals

we are three decent meals away from anarchy

I only skipped lunch today and I'm already starting to get a little grouchy. :twisted:


You're free to come here for supper. I'm about to start cooking chicken. :wink:


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