FZ IN DARMSTADT, GER. IN THE 50Â´s

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:05 am

brainpang wrote:

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

Two independet/unrelated guys, with no apparent reason to lie, stating similar things (the date/decade might be innacurate): Now THAT sounds like an ill conceived conspiracy theory to me :!:

Must somehow be tied to the 9/11 WTC implosion.

Nah, that is more in the realm of scientific stupidity, blindness and sheep-like behaviour, but it dosen't have anything to do with the possibility of Zappa having attended Darmstadt, does it?

One more time for the world: I love [pseudo]sketical comments. The cheaper they are, the better they are...

When one cannot argue for or against something, simply discredit the interlocutor. Who needs facts anyway

Al_Fresco · **Joined:** Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:21 am **Posts:** 233

Why would Berendt & Duprat lie?

I don´t think so.

In Berendt´s book when FZ is mentioned from the point of view of Jazz is seen as an independent musician & composer emphasizing the Grand Wazoo excellent work.

Studebaker · **Posted:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:34 am

Maybe it was just an honest mistake on their part... If, on the other hand, the Darmstadt Institute claims that they don't have any records of his attendance, why would we doubt them?

I also think the story about FZ not getting a passport until the first Euro tour in 1967 rings true, as this was also the first time he found out his birthname wasn't Francis but Frank (I think this fact is recalled in the Real FZ Book).

Anyway, this whole point seems moot to me. Does it lead to more impressive credentials if FZ did in fact study with some prestigious composers instead of being self-taught apart from a couple of musical theory lessons at Claremont College? I think the music speaks for itself...

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:14 am

I think that this discussion could lead to new information on that guy we seem to love so much. If anything, it could tell us a little about how bizzarre myths and legends are born surrounding Frank's persona. Thank you Studabaker for doing your homework and helping out with research

Lumpy Gravy · **Posted:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:56 pm

jeezis, are people really beginning to believe this crap?

FeralCats · **Joined:** Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm **Posts:** 2243

While I still doubt this whole Darmstadt thing, I had a small question that I didn't think needed a new thread, and I figured this would work well.

Quote:

FZ: I'm in high school, and I ran into Stockhausen at the water fountain out in the hall. And just say hello to him, and that was about it.
Henning Lohner: What did he say?
FZ: "Hi. Hello." Ha ha, it's not what you're supposed to say when you bomp into somebody at the water fountain? What would you do? Should he have turned to me and say, "You know, that record that you have, that you've been listening to for years, is full of mistakes!"
Henning Lohner: Ha, ha, ha!
FZ: That would've been good.

I got that from the Peefeeyatko tape. Anyone know what the heck he's talking about?

Lumpy Gravy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:26 pm

FeralCats wrote:

While I still doubt this whole Darmstadt thing, I had a small question that I didn't think needed a new thread, and I figured this would work well.

Quote:

FZ: I'm in high school, and I ran into Stockhausen at the water fountain out in the hall. And just say hello to him, and that was about it.
Henning Lohner: What did he say?
FZ: "Hi. Hello." Ha ha, it's not what you're supposed to say when you bomp into somebody at the water fountain? What would you do? Should he have turned to me and say, "You know, that record that you have, that you've been listening to for years, is full of mistakes!"
Henning Lohner: Ha, ha, ha!
FZ: That would've been good.

I got that from the Peefeeyatko tape. Anyone know what the heck he's talking about?

stockhausen began "touring" the usa in the late 50s. participating in performances of his own and other contemporary composers works. it's not so hard to imagine they might have toured high schools.

Woof · **Joined:** Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:57 pm **Posts:** 55

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

Quote:

# jonnybutter Says:
May 8th, 2006 at 5:09 pm:
Yes, Frank met Claudia Cardinale when he was studying in Darmstadt with Stockhousen in 1962!

Although people there afirm he never studied in Europe... OK, that was an ironic comment from the guy's part

[url=http://www.killuglyradio.com/hot-poop/2006/05/07/zappa-cafe-budapest]SOURCE >>> CLICK HERE <<<
[/url]

johnnybutter was kidding twice. Frank and Claudia actually met. Maybe not in Darmstadt, but for sure in California 1967.
http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 035#259035

FeralCats · **Joined:** Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm **Posts:** 2243

Lumpy Gravy wrote:

FeralCats wrote:

While I still doubt this whole Darmstadt thing, I had a small question that I didn't think needed a new thread, and I figured this would work well.

Quote:

FZ: I'm in high school, and I ran into Stockhausen at the water fountain out in the hall. And just say hello to him, and that was about it.
Henning Lohner: What did he say?
FZ: "Hi. Hello." Ha ha, it's not what you're supposed to say when you bomp into somebody at the water fountain? What would you do? Should he have turned to me and say, "You know, that record that you have, that you've been listening to for years, is full of mistakes!"
Henning Lohner: Ha, ha, ha!
FZ: That would've been good.

I got that from the Peefeeyatko tape. Anyone know what the heck he's talking about?

stockhausen began "touring" the usa in the late 50s. participating in performances of his own and other contemporary composers works. it's not so hard to imagine they might have toured high schools.

Oh, I didn't know that. That would explain everything, I guess. :wink:

Thanks!

slime.oofytv.set · **Joined:** Sun Feb 16, 2003 7:29 pm **Posts:** 9241

after a coupla days at the rancid german fleabag hotel stockhausen put him up at, he asked him for a per diem to cover a bit of food & was promptly sent packing

brainpang · **Joined:** Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am **Posts:** 3039

Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall an interview with Frank where he admitted to sitting in for some courses IN THE LATER 60's. This stands out in my mind as I was shocked that the self-taught genius could stoop so low.
Maybe this is from where the "legend" emanated? It's not like he took a Holiday and studied for a year. He probably sat in some classroom for 2 days.

Lumpy Gravy · **Posted:** Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:26 pm

mystery solved.
I sent an email to Gail Zappa last night, asking her to make a comment on this.
and here is (part) of her reply, which she kindly allowed me to quote:

Quote:

I can only tell you that FZ got his first passport when we were living in New York. In those days one had to get shots to travel overseas. I remember we walked from the medical office where he got his immunization and halfway home we had to sit on the sidewalk on the shady side of the street - his reaction was so acute he nearly passed out. In this manner it took a small forever to get the rest of the way. He flew (to London I think but I can check his original passport) for the first time he was ever in Europe for his first tour there - on 17 September 1967. - Gail Zappa

Al_Fresco · **Joined:** Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:21 am **Posts:** 233

This thread continues at :arrow:

http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... c&start=25

Lumpy Gravy · **Posted:** Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:00 pm

Al_Fresco wrote:

This thread continues at :arrow:

http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... c&start=25

yeah, and it's totally unbelievable that it does. :mrgreen:

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 10:40 am

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

I'll search for the original interview (might take a while though)...

brainpang · **Joined:** Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am **Posts:** 3039

So I guess that this article says Frank studied at Darmstadt? If so, point it out, please. I don't have the patience to scan read for clues.

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Sun May 25, 2008 6:39 am

brainpang wrote:

So I guess that this article says Frank studied at Darmstadt? If so, point it out, please. I don't have the patience to scan read for clues.

But if you only had the patience to read up the thread above, you wouldn't need to ask...

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

When I discovered Zappa in the middle 90's I've read an interview with an influential Brazilian Maestro (conductor), Rogério Duprat, who worked with the Brazilian Popular Music movment and have recently passed away, wherein he states that he met young Frank Zappa in Germany at a contemporary music course. So it rings true to me... I will try to find and scan the interview sometime, although it is in Portuguese. It is part of a very nice special magazine on Zappa, with mostly reliable info and reviews...

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

I'll search for the original interview (might take a while though)...

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

The Brazilian conductor was either Rogerio Duprat or Julio Medaglia. He said some charming comments about his meeting with Zappa, but I think it was early 60s though (can't be precise, I need to find that magazine again).

So the scan is just a follow up of something I have promised before... (email me and I might send you a high definition copy)...

brainpang · **Joined:** Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am **Posts:** 3039

gg is a tool

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Tue May 27, 2008 1:48 am

brainpang is a pain in the ass...

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:45 am

Extra, Extra... New developments!

Could this be a clue?

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?p=422877#p422877

Hum...

Lumpy Gravy wrote:

FeralCats wrote:

While I still doubt this whole Darmstadt thing, I had a small question that I didn't think needed a new thread, and I figured this would work well.

Quote:

FZ: I'm in high school, and I ran into Stockhausen at the water fountain out in the hall. And just say hello to him, and that was about it.
Henning Lohner: What did he say?
FZ: "Hi. Hello." Ha ha, it's not what you're supposed to say when you bomp into somebody at the water fountain? What would you do? Should he have turned to me and say, "You know, that record that you have, that you've been listening to for years, is full of mistakes!"
Henning Lohner: Ha, ha, ha!
FZ: That would've been good.

I got that from the Peefeeyatko tape. Anyone know what the heck he's talking about?

stockhausen began "touring" the usa in the late 50s. participating in performances of his own and other contemporary composers works. it's not so hard to imagine they might have toured high schools.

The wise Feral Cats had nailed it before...

To dismiss it away by "I guess" or "it isn't hard to imagine" is not strong enough evidence to solve this riddle...

HJ · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:29 am

I have forgotten about all this. What evidence is needed to solve what? As I see, Frank remember having "met" Stockhausen in high school. What has that to do with Darmstadt?

My_Name_Is_Fritz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:04 pm

HJ wrote:

I have forgotten about all this. What evidence is needed to solve what? As I see, Frank remember having "met" Stockhausen in high school. What has that to do with Darmstadt?

Maybe you know "Das Jazzbuch" written by Joachim-Ernst Berendt. It's a basic work on history of jazz, which was first published in the 1950's. Berendt claimed that FZ had visited courses in new contemporary music in Darmstadt along with Stockhausen in the first half of the 1950's.

Mr_Green_Genes · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:02 pm

Hypothesis test essay experiment:

-Ask Gail, or Bobby or Paul Buff about their knowledge of Frank having met Stockhausen in highschool or wherever in his youth and let's see how much they know about it. Just to calibrate the almost absurd possibility of Zappa being out of the country for, say a week or two in the early 60s without them being aware. Maybe only his parents knew... Just wondering... a long shot, but who knows...

HJ · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:36 am

My_Name_Is_Fritz wrote:

HJ wrote:

I have forgotten about all this. What evidence is needed to solve what? As I see, Frank remember having "met" Stockhausen in high school. What has that to do with Darmstadt?

Maybe you know "Das Jazzbuch" written by Joachim-Ernst Berendt. It's a basic work on history of jazz, which was first published in the 1950's. Berendt claimed that FZ had visited courses in new contemporary music in Darmstadt along with Stockhausen in the first half of the 1950's.

Sorry, don't know it. Interesting that it in the 1950s should mention a, at that time. quite unknown Frank Zappa. Also funny that a less-than 15-year old american kid visits Darmstadt for music courses?

HJ · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:37 am

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

Hypothesis test essay experiment:

-Ask Gail, or Bobby or Paul Buff about their knowledge of Frank having met Stockhausen in highschool or wherever in his youth and let's see how much they know about it. Just to calibrate the almost absurd possibility of Zappa being out of the country for, say a week or two in the early 60s without them being aware. Maybe only his parents knew... Just wondering... a long shot, but who knows...

Does seem a long shot. Like "Was Zappa murdered?" :wink:

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FZ IN DARMSTADT, GER. IN THE 50Â´s

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