Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:32 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 125
Location: philly
here's an idea to make enough money for more relseases... release material.  this quaudiophiliac intro to the site has been there for a year (3 releases a year??).  we are missing 2... and i guarentee they will be bought by lots of people... everyone here is frothing at the mouth to get their idle hands on some new zappa... most of us already own everything and then some.  i'd love nothing more than to put more bread on your table, so do yourselves a favor and make with the music... we all know its there in the vault collecting dust.<br><br>look... i don't like to be negative or sound like an asshole, but i am trying to be patient and there is no communication (or very little) on the other end.  help me please... make me understand...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
Frank Zappa's widow loses battle with German festivalGail Zappa has failed in her bid to stop Zappanale, a festival celebrating her late husband's work, from using his image and trademark
Buzz up!
Digg it
Sean Michaels guardian.co.uk, Thursday 29 January 2009 11.56 GMT Article history
Frank Zappa ... 'His whole life was about artistic freedom'

Call it a Zappa civil war. Fans, former bandmates and a German festival devoted to Frank Zappa are all trading blows with Gail Zappa, Frank's widow, and her Zappa Family Trust (ZFT).

According to Zappa fansites, the ZFT is on a copyright rampage – taking down YouTube videos, stopping tribute nights and even writing to internet service providers of fans who trade Zappa bootlegs. Prominent members of the Zappa fan community are now sporting "Stop Gail" T-shirts and a petition opposing her has gathered more than 3,000 signatures.

The most recent battleground is the Zappanale, a festival that has for 20 years taken place in the German town of Bad Doberan. At the time of its founding, Zappa albums were illegal in East Germany. Now the three-day event attracts thousands of fans with what organisers describe as "Zappa-esque rock".

The trouble, according to the ZFT, was with the Zappanale's merchandising. T-shirts bearing Zappa-esque facial hair – a soul-patch and moustache – allegedly violated the musician's trademark, and brought on Gail Zappa's legal team. The ZFT sued for €150,000 in damages and a further €250,000 if the Zappanale continued to sell the merchandise.

Thomas Dippel, president of the non-profit Arf Society that organises the festival, insisted that they had been trying for years to get Gail Zappa's approval for the event. When the group unveiled a statue of Zappa in Bad Doberan, he said, they invited the entire Zappa family.

The statue, Gail Zappa told Spiegel Online, is an "impish creature" that "doesn't look like Frank Zappa unless you argue that putting a moustache on any face looks like Frank Zappa". "I've long known that there was this quote-unquote festival slash event slash what the fuck," she said. "[But] I felt we were getting into territory where we were putting the audience at risk in terms of who Frank was. You become concerned."

Dippel disagreed. "The reactions we have received are almost all completely furious with Gail Zappa," he told Spiegel Online. "I have the impression that she wants to prevent Zappa music from being played, except by her son. Zappa his whole life long was for artistic freedom. There is a story, though it may not be true, that Zappa on his deathbed said: 'Play my music, whether you're a musician or not, play my music.'"

The courts ultimately agreed with the Zappanale, ruling on 22 January that the FZT did not actively use its trademark in Germany, and that the Zappanale logo was easily distinguishable from Frank Zappa's official one. But Gail Zappa's disputes with the fan community are not over. Besides continuing YouTube take-down notices, the FZT has now forbidden Napoleon Murphy Brock, a former Zappa collaborator, from playing Frank Zappa's songs on his forthcoming tour.

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 15115
I agree about that statue. Ugh.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
This Saturday, the city of Berlin will dedicate a street to the memory of Frank Zappa. But Gail Zappa, wife of the late rock iconoclast, has threatened to sue the musicians' collective behind the naming unless Germany's formally-chartered Zappa fan club withdraws from the event.

A letter from a Dusseldorf law firm accuses Arf-Society e.V. (the fan club) of exploiting the street dedication for its own purposes, and of copyright violations and other rights infringements. The letter also contends that Gail Zappa did not know about the street-naming, and that she should have been contacted for approval.

In response, Thomas Dippel, Arf-Society chairperson, released the following statement:
"With great dismay and surprise, Arf-Society – organizer of biggest known Zappa festival in the world for the last 18 years – must take note of Gail Zappa's effort to prevent our participation in the inauguration of Frank-Zappa-Street in Berlin.

"How this all came about: Acting on a proposal by the ORWOhaus musicians' collective, the Marzahn-Hellersdorf district board approved renaming 'Road 13' as 'Frank-Zappa-Strasse', the first street in Germany named for a rock musician. This major recognition of Frank pleased us greatly, of course. We immediately contacted ORWOhaus to assure them of our help in any way we could.

"When Ahmet Zappa [Zappa's second son] was in Berlin on November 6, 2006, publicizing his first book, members of ORWOhaus invited him to take part in the preparations and the event itself. By making contact with the Zappa family, ORWOhaus hoped to spark a dialog about plans for the event. The family never responded to these overtures.

"So, Arf-Society began to help by contacting Zappa tribute band 'Sheik Yerbouti', and by arranging the participation of Napoleon Murphy Brock, revered Zappa band member and star of last year's Zappa Plays Zappa tour. In fact, Arf-Society is paying half of Mr. Brock's travel expenses, which enables ORWOhaus to put a serious representation of Zappa's music on stage for the celebration, despite a very limited budget.

"But then ORWOhaus received a letter from Thomas Schmitz, of the Dusseldorf law firm Reiman Osterreith Kohler Haft, dated July 10, 2007, saying that they were retained to represent the legal interests of Gail Zappa and her children after press releases saying that Arf-Society would be involved in the street-naming. Gail Zappa would sue because Arf-Society 'is constantly violating her trademark rights and copyrights, and exploiting the artistic heritage of Frank Zappa. Our client will under no circumstances put up with that Society taking publicity from the street renaming for their own purpose.'

"These groundless accusations hurt us deeply, as we have strived for almost two decades to honor and preserve Frank Zappa's musical heritage. Long before 2004, we repeatedly invited Gail Zappa and her family to work together with us, especially since they would profit from our work promoting Frank's legacy. Yet, Gail Zappa's only answer reads: 'If you want to play with me, you have to play it by my rules!' She has also threatened other Zappa tribute bands and artists with restraining orders for quite some time."

"Mrs Zappa, we protest explicitly against the unwarrented claims you raised. As Frank would have asked, are you 'only in it for the money?'"

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 15115
This is old news, isn't it?

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
calvin2hikers wrote:
This is old news, isn't it?


Yes. But interesting nonetheless. I doubt everyone has seen this stuff. I had never read these particular articles. Sorry if its redundant :|

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
April 9, 2009 - Frank Zappa was called many things during his life, but lazy wasn't one of them. He put out more than 60 records, and unreleased music is still trickling out more than 15 years after his death. It's part of an effort by his widow, Gail, to keep Zappa's legacy alive.

The most recent effort from the Zappa Family Trust is a three-disc set titled Lumpy Money. It combines music — released and unreleased — that Frank Zappa recorded in 1967. One session produced the Mothers of Invention album We're Only in It for the Money, the group's third release. The other was a surprise.

Zappa was a 26-year-old, self-taught composer with long hair and a funny goatee when he walked into a Capitol Records studio in Los Angeles and handed an orchestra charts for Lumpy Gravy.

"At one point, he turned to me when we were listening, just to playback," Gail Zappa says, "and he said, 'Did I write that?' It was so shocking."

It's almost as if Frank Zappa was writing avant-garde classical music in Top 40 segments, says Rolling Stone's David Fricke, who wrote the liner notes for the new set.

"It just blew my mind," he says.

Lumpy Gravy is a suite of three-minute movements, built on Zappa's love of 20th-century classical music (particularly that of Edgard Varese), R&B and jazz. The music is not easy to play. Some of L.A.'s best studio musicians balked at the parts Zappa had written — until he picked up his guitar and tossed off the sections he'd written for bassoon and bass clarinet. Gail Zappa says musicians are still struggling to play what her husband wrote.

"I want people to play Frank's music," she says. "Go ahead; try. Don't hurt yourself, but just try it."

She insists that anyone who does try to perform it in public needs to pay royalties to his estate.

"I don't really care who's doing it, as long as they get a license," she says. "The people I'm going after are not licensing the music."

Legacy Vs. Controversy

Gail Zappa is going after cover bands she accuses of "identity theft." Her lawyers have sent scores of cease-and-desist letters. But many of the people who continue to perform Frank Zappa's music say they don't need permission.

"You or I cannot record that material and sell it for money. But we can perform it," says guitarist Andre Cholmondeley, who plays in a long-running Zappa cover band called Project/Object. "I'm not a lawyer, but that is the opinion and direction I've been given by probably a dozen lawyers at this point."

Cholmondeley maintains that as long as the venues he plays have paid for a blanket license from the performance-rights organization ASCAP, he is not doing anything illegal. Music lawyers consulted for this story agreed. It seems that Gail Zappa has never actually sued a cover band, but she has sued a 20-year-old festival in Germany called the Zappanale for trademark infringement. She lost but plans to appeal.

By all accounts, Frank Zappa was a perfectionist who liked to keep a tight grip on his business and his art. As he told WHYY's Fresh Air in 1989, he struggled with symphony orchestras — and his own bands — to get his music right.

"Goal one for a composer is to just hear what it was that you wrote," Zappa said, "because you like to listen to music, as well as write it. That's always been the main thrill for me, is to come up with a musical idea and have it performed some way, and I'm especially thrilled if it's performed correctly."

That's why Gail Zappa has a problem with some cover bands.

"Somebody goes out there, plays music — it's not played very well; it doesn't sound anything like what the composer intended," she says. "And they are telling the audience that's never heard it before that this is Frank Zappa's music. It's not. It's some wretched version of it."

There are cover bands that the Zappa family does endorse, including Zappa Plays Zappa, a band fronted by Frank's son Dweezil. Gail Zappa insists that she's not playing favorites. But some of the musicians who have been threatened by her lawyers have doubts.

What Would Frank Want?

Many fans point to a message that was left on the hot line for Zappa's record label shortly after he died of prostate cancer in 1993.

The message says, in part, "Just play his music if you're a musician. And otherwise, play his music anyway. That will be enough for him."

The message was read by Zappa's daughter, Moon Unit. Gail Zappa insists that it's not what some fans and musicians have made it out to be.

"We wrote something for Moon to say on the hot line," she says. "But it was not a statement made by Frank. He never said that. He never told anyone that."

Ike Willis would beg to differ.

"The main reason I'm doing this is because I love Frank," Willis says. "I love his music. And he asked me to do it."

Willis is a singer and guitarist who worked with Frank Zappa on and off for 17 years. He now tours with Project/Object and other unauthorized cover bands. Willis says he talked to Zappa a week before the composer died.

"He said, 'I would really like it if you could be one of the people that could actually keep my music played, in some way, shape or form.' Those were his words," Willis says. "He didn't want it to die."

There are performers who have decided that it's simply easier to work with Gail Zappa. Students from the Paul Green School of Rock performed at Zappanale in 2005. A few years later, Green got a threatening letter from Gail Zappa's lawyers. He decided to negotiate.

"I don't disagree with her right to do that — just her opinion on the matter," says Green, whose work gained a wide audience through the documentary film Rock School. "He wrote this music to be played. If Gail opened it up a little more, I think kids would latch on to this music, if it was more readily and easily available."

Rolling Stone's Fricke says the disputes don't help the legacy — which is unfortunate, he says, because Zappa's music deserves to reach a wider audience.

"The legacy hasn't been taken seriously enough since his death," Fricke says. "In a way, I don't think people really understand him. I'm still working on it."

So are other fans, musicians and family members, who insist that they want Frank Zappa's music to thrive. But that's just about the only thing they can agree on.

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
You’re very conscientious about protecting Frank Zappa’s legacy. What’s the thing that worries you the most about that legacy and how it’s being treated?

Identity theft. I’m glad you asked me. No one has asked that before. And that’s what it is: Identity theft. Because everybody imagines who Frank Zappa is. And then they go on, some of them, to imagine, I could make some money if I reinvent Frank Zappa in my own image. Which may suck, by the way. So people write books and they make records and they do this stuff. So every day my job is to protect and serve, like the L.A.P.D. Protect the integrity of the work itself. And serve the intent of the composer.

How does that work out, pragmatically speaking?

It’s a lot of squabbling over copyright issues. The real reason why I do this is because it’s just my obligation to Frank Zappa, who really believed in the Constitution of the United States of America, and one of its provisions covers copyright. And I don’t like people fucking with Frank’s last word, and his last word is his music.

I know that you’ve had some issues with iTunes, and that you object to the MP3 format because it requires music files to be so compressed. Do you ever worry that if people can’t get MP3 downloads, you’re going to miss a chance to reach new fans?

Well, you know, I’m of two minds there. First of all, this is a concept that Frank thought up in 1983 and published a copyrighted document on, that was filed with the copyright office. The idea was to deliver music over phone lines. As usual, he’s prescient. I don’t know how it would be different had Frank lived. Or how he would necessarily feel about it. But I do know his intention was that his music should not be massively compressed. And for that reason he insisted that his masters be sold in a specific format; anything less than that format was not permitted under the agreement. And iTunes was way below 16-bit technology [when Rykodisc, which had the rights to the Zappa catalogue, made it available there]. So I’m not having an argument with iTunes. I was always having the argument with the delivery by Ryko of something that they weren’t entitled to do, which is the digital download of less than 16-bit technology.

I don’t want to fault delivery systems. Really what is happening with music—because people steal it more and more, I think they just want to have it. They don’t want to listen to it. Because if they wanted to listen to it, they wouldn’t buy it that way.

You mean compressed?

Yeah. It’s like you want a knock-off of something. You just say that you have it. To appear as if you’re hip or cool, whatever it is. You want to hear the musical idea. But you don’t want to hear the music.

Frank makes fun of hippie culture a lot in We’re Only in it for the Money. What do you think he’d be making fun of today?

Well, anybody who takes themselves seriously. Nobody was spared, including himself. He was certainly relegated to that sort of—it’s hard for you to imagine, because you sound like you’re about 12.

I’m 33.

Very close, from my perspective. I have a son your age. When these records were made, everything in the media was about them and not us. We were excluded. And if we were talked about at all, they pointed the finger: those are them and they’re dangerous. So we were a little separate community, everybody under the age of 25 in 1965. It’s hard to imagine for people now, especially your age, that your whole country, your parents and everybody, would be against you if you behaved or looked a certain way. It’s so pervasive now that no one cares anymore.

The mainstream culture has also become very adept at co-opting anything that’s at all creative or “edgy.”

Absolutely. That’s absolutely true. Frank never intended to be psychedelic or avant-garde or any of those titles that have been visited upon him by everybody else in retrospect. That wasn’t what he was trying to do at all. He was just saying, This is what I think about that, and this is how I’m going to show you what I think.

Speaking of your children, I caught one of Dweezil’s performances of the Frank Zappa catalogue a year or two ago at the Jammies.

You have to see it now! It’s nothing like that now. That was when they first started out. And there was so much pressure for them to have original members that played in Frank’s band. And it was just so heartbreaking for all of us—especially the family—that we had to do that. Because we just believe in the music and that it’s alive and well, and that it doesn’t need those guys to hold it up anymore. Or to participate in any way. If it can’t be played by people of your generation, then what’s the point?

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 7106
Location: exile
calvin2hikers wrote:
I agree about that statue. Ugh.
me too. it's horrible.
and, I also agree with gail about the zappanale.
what does the zappanale have to do with frank zappa, I wonder?

_________________
"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
Image

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Last edited by Joel Osteen on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5951
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
I have to agree with Gail on the point about FZ's music standing up on it's own, it shouldn't have to depend on including alumni. FZ changed his bands on a fairly regular basis and that's the point that's missing, he was the one doing the auditioning. FZ had gained a significant amount of respect among musicians and his auditions attracted the best and were competitive and it would be interesting to know if the pull of ZPZ auditions is quite the same.

Also Dweezil is doing the auditioning not FZ, but he's selected Billy Hulting, Jamie Kime, Pete Griffin, Scheila Gonzalez and Joe Travers, all of whom are exceptional musicians. Aaron Arntz is a sad loss, he's just as good as Tommy Mars as far as I'm concerned. Ben Thomas, though, I know very little about and I'm looking forward to hear some more recent ZPZ recordings to see if he's up to it. If he's not, I'm sure there are people out there up to the task of singing FZ's music who are just as good as any of the alumni.

I'm not that driven to see bands with the alumni in, I've got all that stuff on CD already, but I can see the dilemma. Zappa is not alive to write any new music, if he were, by now we'd be hearing it with different younger musicians. (I base that assumption on how he regularly updated his bands when he was alive.) He's gone and I can see that many of his long time fans would have a fondness for the way they've always heard the stuff that is available, but not me. Live, or with new recordings, I'd prefer to see and hear new musicians. One of the big advantages of ZPZ is that ultimately we can hear any of Zappa's band works played with the latest technology.

    Edit: Substituted "including" for "being played by" in the first sentence, in case of any misunderstandings that may follow.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Last edited by polydigm on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3435
Location: Between the Badges
I don't think I've ever heard anyone here say that there should only be alumni in ZPZ, as the following quote implies:

GZ wrote:
If it can’t be played by people of your generation, then what’s the point?


To also imply that the music was created in a vacuum by faceless hired guns and therefore the alumni have no place in any ZPZ project is also wrong.
I think the fanbase welcomes new talent AND respects the alumni. Is it really so weird for people to want to hear some of their favorite musicians play their favorite music?

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Last edited by The Forum Killed Arkay on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5951
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone here say that there should only be alumni in ZPZ ...
Me neither, I certainly didn't mean to imply that was the case, so I've edited my post to make sure.
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
... is it really so weird for people to want to hear some of their favorite musicians play their favorite music?
Of course not. My point is about the music standing on it's own live, which is what it will eventually have to do anyway, so I'm personally curious to hear new, young, top flight musicians playing FZ's music, is that really so weird?

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 21462
Location: Somewhere in time
polydigm wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone here say that there should only be alumni in ZPZ ...
Me neither, I certainly didn't mean to imply that was the case, so I've edited my post to make sure.
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
... is it really so weird for people to want to hear some of their favorite musicians play their favorite music?
Of course not. My point is about the music standing on it's own live, which is what it will eventually have to do anyway, so I'm personally curious to hear new, young, top flight musicians playing FZ's music, is that really so weird?



I found your comments in the original post articulate and easy to follow, that being said Poly, see how easy it is in this forum to be misunderstood or to misspeak by typing something a little differently than you may have intended.

So one can be arrogant without attempting to be condescending… :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3435
Location: Between the Badges
Sorry that you thought I was responding to you polydigm. It was more of a general response to the topic. I probably should have included GZ's name, instead of just writing "Quote". I'll change that now.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5951
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Sorry that you thought I was responding to you polydigm. It was more of a general response to the topic. I probably should have included GZ's name, instead of just writing "Quote". I'll change that now.
No worries, it wasn't clear and I was just making sure.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 4716
I think it's great that the ZPZ uses new faces and all that but you have to admit that having one or two alumni in the lineup does create a draw. Perhaps do it as guest performers? I myself went to see ZPZ so I could see Dweezil play! The fact that other people like Vai and Bozzio were there was a plus but to me I think Dweezil is the shit! That guy can play!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 am
Posts: 533
Location: in a small town someplace i used to be
One idea for a money making scheme would be to charge everyone out the ass for tickets to shows while promosing downloads. Then not deliver

_________________
BANNED and FAT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:56 pm
Posts: 4716
I was actually looking for a thread where I could buy cheap V1-agra or a no deposit casino or two...Oh well.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5951
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Funny you should should bump that one Huck.

Yeah, that Joel Osteen was a real positive guy. I can see why he has no idea why he got banned.

        :roll:

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group