Zappa.com

I said from day one that buildings don't fall down like that. I've argued with real folks and on message boards until I became blued screwed and unglued. Basically, I'm sick of fucks who still think that those buildings came down because airliners crashed into them. It makes me sick that the average American is so completely gullible. I've been called every name in the book over this thing, because the brainwashed masses actually think that what they see and hear in the newspaper and on the evening news is the whole and indisputable truth, and they just go nuts whenever the official media version of the truth is challenged.

To put it plainly, they are stupid.

9-11 was an inside job. There's just no way around the physics of it, or the politics of it. The major players are there, with motive and desire. They are not crazy Muslims who "hate us for our freedoms". They are crazy-rich elitist oilborgs who needed an excuse to go empiring. What they did is called "treason". It is the duty of every patriot to point this out to the less than bright. That is why I post threads such as this one...because I love my country, and I despise what these greedy pigs have done to it...not because I'm whacko-paranoid.

Now really, I don't expect to find many gullible people at the Frank Zappa forum. Frank wasted a lot of breath trying to tell people what the fuck was really happening, but he kept at it despite the obvious resistance from non-critical thinkers. But, just in case you are reading this and you are becoming angry that I am floating conspiracy theories, then I invite you to download this gig-big movie...

http://www.archive.org/details/Whats_Th ... s_Collapse

After you have watched the movie, please show it to others. If, like many others, you have goose-stepped along with the mainstream on 9-11 for the past five years, apologize to yourself and everyone else for being so goddamned stupid.

Then get mad.

Treason is not a joke.

Check this out:

http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4992

And this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

its like a match made in heaven.

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It's cool how everyone (even Charlie Sheen) suddenly became a demolition expert after 9/11.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

http://www.frappr.com/frankzappaforum - FZ Forum World Map

You know, Stu, it takes someone famous to make 'em heard. Unfortunetly in the Great Society those are the ones who are forming opinions and influencing people...

It dosen't take an expert to figure that the melting point of the steel pilars used on the WTC were way above the burning temperature of jet fuel and office material...

It dosen't take an expert either to figure out that NO BUILDING (skyscraper) on fire have collapesed untill 911, or even the building in Iran that was hit accidentaly by a plane this or last year...

It only takes a dumb person to realize that something was INDEED VERY STRANGE ABOUT THE WTC 7 BUILDING, WHICH WAS NOT STRIKEN BY A PLANE, but collapsed in the same fashion as the twin towers later on that fatidical day...

CS might not be a expert, but he is a public figure, one who can make himself heard by people (but most importantly, by the media).

But in case you still have doubt about the collapse I suggest this google video (same thing as YouTube, just wait for it to load) by a Professor of the Young Birgham University, Steven E. Jones. He PUBLISHED A RESEARCH PAPER ON THE SUBJECT...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

I'm already aware of the Jones paper (how could you not be if advocates of the 'controlled demolition' theory keep waving it in your face again and again), but to me it's just one of many possible scientific theories that first need to be subjected to rigorous peer reviews, just like the official explanation should.

I'm not afraid to admit that I myself am definitely not an expert in these matters and am not in a comfortable position to judge who's right and wrong here. I am open to many different options, but I do think that the problem with some of these conspiracy theories is that people are so eager to blame the whole 9/11 disaster on the Bush administration that they're willing to embrace every conspiracy theory under the sun (including some totally ludicrous stuff...)

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

http://www.frappr.com/frankzappaforum - FZ Forum World Map

I liked that very much, becasue the commision report is bullocks...

The Jones Paper IS PEER REVIEWED before it can be PUBLISHED for research purposes, and so far I haven't seen any replies directed to it on the media... It dosen't say it is the ultimate trhuth, but it says it is serious...

There are tons of theories, but some are there just to fuzz the picture further. A job this size dosen't come without a very well planed inteligence and propaganda campaing...

The picture, for me, is very clear to see though. Even if there was absolutely no involvment from the Bush administration, they knew very well what to do next... and all smoking guns points their direction... For example. Did you see the recently released "video" of the Pentagon hit? Take a look, it is only 3 minutes long:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5658198482624505213&q=pentagon

Now, did you see a boing? Why won't they release one (out of more than 50) videos with reasonable quality and clear to see the plane hitting the pentagon? I mean, they showed the WTC a bazillion times.... They already have tried Moussaui.. This video is a (bad taste) joke!



Do you belive this 'War on Terror" bullshit? Everybody KNOWS (and knew prior to 911) that Bin Ladder is a CIA asset... That is a fact, historically documented...

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

I also haven't seen or heard many other experts coming forward to confirm Jones' take on the demolition of the towers, so this argument cuts both ways. I believe you are a scientist yourself, right? I guess you know that it is pretty rare to have any theory or hypothesis generally accepted without thorough confirmation and reviews from other experts in the field. So, where are they...?

The point is: it all comes down on what you want to believe for yourself, because we are all suspectible to blindingly accepting theories that confirm our own point of view.

Personally, I think a lot of people who follow either the official explanation or the alternative put forward by the 9/11 truth moment really don't have the expertise to judge what theories can be proven false themselves. I'm not a physicist, so what the hell do I know about these matters?

If Jones asserts that the building couldn't have collapsed without controlled demolition, we're just going to have to take his word for it. Or not... The same goes for the plane crashing the Pentagon.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

http://www.frappr.com/frankzappaforum - FZ Forum World Map

Group of prominent experts, including scientists and former high-level military personnel, call for release of basic 9/11 information:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/929981172?ltl=1141667399

Scholars for 9/11 Truth" (S9/11T) is a non-partisan association of faculty, students, and scholars, in fields as diverse as history, science, military affairs, psychology, and philosophy, dedicated to exposing falsehoods and to revealing truths behind 9/11:
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

And something you must take into account here is: most part of the general public, and of engineers for instance, will "swallow" the non-demolition hypotheis simply because of the fear of diverging from the official accounts and being labelled as cospiracy theory nuts...




Not exactly. I don't think I take it blindly (of course, I might be wrong about the whole thing, maybe the US air security was just plain dumb, maybe it was the major historical screw up by US defenses). It has more to do with the lack of possible adjustment of the official account with what was experienced by common senses. The official story, not being able to satisfactorely explain the facts, an alternative hypotheis must come foward and scrutinized as well. If you agree with me on that, you will also find strange how much rush was put into dispatching the debris from the towers and the blocking of possible independent investigations commisions... And it dosen't have anything to do with my personal prior opinion (I WISH THE CONSPIRACY WAS NOT TRUE) and I've belived most part of the official story for years...



Well, I think you are underestimating your intelectual capacities (which I am sure are very well developed, I mean it, you are a clever guy...).

It is not up to A SPECIALIST (a physicist, a militar, a pilot) to confirm or dismiss, but it is up to an interdisciplinary group of specialists to judge it. What didn't happen at all, because the gov't gave no conditions of such...

But still, you can have an informed opinion about the facts yourself. You don't need to be a scientist to understand the scientific principles/paradigmas you were taught (evolutio, genetics, gravity, etc). It dosen't mean that your or my opinion is argument of an expert, but I am sure you've studied some physics (since you deal with computers, insn't it?). And the thing I told ya about the temperature the jet fuels burns and data on resistence of materials can be found on a careful google search...




Not exactly. Did you check the Pentagon video above? This is the OFFICIAL VIDEO RELEASE made last month. Can you see a boing there? What is happening on that video?

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Maybe they weren't Boeings? Maybe they were UFO's dressed up to look like Boeings?
That could explain why there's no footage of a Boeing hitting Pentagon, and why no debris was found...?
(The "disguise" fell off the ufo, or something...)

IT WAS AN ALIEN ATTACK! Bin Laden is from Mars!

how's that for a conspiracy theory?

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

Maybe, certainly not SUICIDAL CHUMPS like yourself, my dearest friend

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

suicidal chump? just because I left this forum a couple of times? jeez, gimme a break...

as for 9-11: I don't believe too much of the official story more than you do, Mr. G. G., but I certainly do not, not for a second, believe that it was a plot made up by the american government. as usual, the clues are probably to be found somewhere in between.

besides, we will never know the real truth.

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

No, because you left crying "goodbye cruel world, why don't you like me?" Then came back, and then off again, and then back... Typical Suicide Chump




Makes perfect sense to me. It is comfortable to lie on the fence...



Let's just accept it and be happy in ignorance...

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

what the fuck are you talking about, asshole?




that's not what I said, but of course you wouldn't understand.

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

I suppose it's too much to ask for a civilized discussion?

It's the typical shit. Secret agents trying to discredit solid information by making fun of it or by equating it with whackology. As usual, they show up without any real ammunition, just the stones of playground bullies: slander and ridicule. I won't waste my time with such fuckheads.

It isn't conpiracy theorists who are responsible for conspiracy theories...it is a government that acts in secret and refuses to address honest questions about their version of events.

Watch the goddamn movie. If you have specific questions about it, come here and I will speak with you. Otherwise, try masturbation.

One look at WCT7 falling into it's own footprint at near the speed of gravity will perhaps get you thinking. It is obvious to me, and it should also be obvious to everyone. Buildings do not fall down like that without professional assistance. Look at who owned the buildings, and who ran security for them. Look at what was said by people who were there and speaking on camera the day it happened. Then come back here and tell me exactly what the fucking problem is so that we can have an intelligent discussion, not a distracting panty-party.

See, that's why I won't be visiting this thread. First you say intelligent discussion, then it's watch the movie, or masturbate. No intelligent discussion will be going on here. If something is mentioned that doesn't fit the theory, then such person will be called an idiot or blissfully unaware. This will all end in name calling.

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You gotta give the people something good to read, on a Sunday

So why do you keep chasing me in the forum? Why do you waste your time? Fuck off, man! I tought you were married! Don't you have better things to do than being worried with what I, a lunatic for your standards, have to say? WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM? If you have any pesonal differences with me, please use the PM, and don't fucking shit on every thread that I participate... In case you didn't get it, this is a discussion about 911, not about MGG or his beloved stalker, Lumpy "suicide" Gravy.

So just leave my alone for a while, would you?

* Special Thanks to Isaac for helping out with the spelling...

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Cal2 -

I want people to watch the movie so that we can discuss. I have a suggestion for what they can do if they do not wish to watch the movie. I don't care if you think it's clever or not, but it was a "joke", which means humor, which is intellectual enough for me.

I expected that part of this would devolve into childish banter. I'm not looking for a pissing match, I'm looking for someone who will watch the movie and then bring any dispute they might have with it here to this thread, so that a conversation can begin.

I know what Mr. Genes is going through. I've been harrassed myself on other boards. It's all part of forum dynamics. If somebody wants to fuck with the dog, well, the dog is just standing around waiting for something to happen anyway, so don't go home crying when you get your ass bit.

Okay? Who's up? Who watched the movie?

1) You're everywhere on this Forum. It's impossible to ignore you.
2) Don't I have the same right as everyone else, to post what I want and where I want?

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

Yeah, but you don't have to necessarely reply to my posts and you might reconsider twice before electing me as your favorite target for your childish personal vendettas. I can be quite childish too... Be warned!

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Why not? What makes you so fucking special?

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

Y'all be good before I have to put ya to bed.

I am probably going to be sorry for posting here but ...I watched the video--I found it to be thought-provoking and concerning for sure. The question is this--let's say explosives brought down the Twin Towers--which seems like a distinct possibility/probability, how can we say WHO put those explosives in the building? The information about the activities in the days leading up to the event doesn't mean anything to me as we just don't know who those various parties really were. And two airplanes DID crash into the towers. Whom did the US government talk into taking on those suicide missions? That piece, at least, seems far fetched--also what the feds might have done with all the passengers from the two flights that landed in Cleveland. That is too weird. Someone would have seen something and would have said something to someone. So that's my initial take. Do I have questions? yes. But maybe not about everything.

Hey, how are you?

Yes, there are a couple of avenues of thought concerning how the planes were flown into the buildings. One postulates that they may have been remotely controlled. Another line of thinking is that radical Muslims were simply allowed to carry out their plan. How deeply involved the perpetraitors of the 9-11 building collapses were in the actual attack is a matter of much speculation on the web. They might have simply known that the attack was going to occur, and prepared for a total disaster that would look as if it was caused by the terror attrack. A total loss of these already troublesome buildings would be much better for the owners than having to have them fixed up after a scarring.

As for who wired the buildings, it doesn't really matter. Marvin Bush, the pResident's brother was in charge of security. If the WTC owner, Larry Silverstein, wanted to get those buildings wired without the public knowing about it, it would not have been difficult. The Project for a New American Century, or PNAC, is in general considered to be the prime suspect in concieving such a plan, since they had been suggesting the need for a "new Pearl Harbor" for quite some time before the event.

This is just a basic outline of the thinking behind the issues you have brought forth, Muff. In general, Googling some of the keywords here will get you more info, but of course, you know that. I know it is impossible to decipher sometimes what is solid and what is shit, and it is hard to know what to trust. But, we can believe our eyes...somebody done put some boom-boom in dem buildings.

I'm not sure about the Cleveland thing. I'm not sure any of those passengers got on any plane. I'm not sure any terrorists got on any plane (no Arab names on any of the flight manifests). Airports are full of security cameras. Where's the footage?

There's a 911 Truth convention in Los Angeles coming up in a few days. Watch for it on the "news".


www.911proof.com

Mamma, that thing about the possible activities on the buildings prior to the events is significative as it was said to be unheard of in about 30 yrs of routine...

and about the planes, there are two possibilities i see: i) the suicidal bin laden gang perfomed it like pawns in a chess game (very unlikely I think - to fly those planes ... ), ii) the hijacked planes were diverted somewhere else (eg the ocean) and drones were crashed against the towers. There is a famous video of a NASA 747 jumbo on a forced landing, what shows that they do have tecnology to fly a plane by remote control... what do you think?

But anyways, to implode the wole thing was the best way to completely shock the public and to get rid of the evidence. There is something about one of the towers harboring a subterranean bank with enourmous amouts of international gold. Where did it go?

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein