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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:30 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
although I agree that UM is one hell of an eclectic mindfuck.


Watch out for this guy!! :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:32 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
I see 3 uncle meats:
the original 2-record set,
the movie that came out in the '80's and woefully under-distributed and
the 2cd version.


I only got one 'Uncle Meat.' :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:38 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
FeralCats wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.


I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


Lumpy Gravy is equally guilty of these things, but people are more hesitant to jump on them in that context...maybe because they're split into 'tracks' here?


I gotta jump in here.
The whole collection of releases can be seen as one big piece completed by the maestro. Everything from Freak Out! to Civilization Phase III is one big piece of art. This is the sand-box (you can call it a piano) that the whole conceptual continuity 'project/object' fits in [I think there are several . . .]. One of the really audacious things frank did was to call all of it music: the spoken word stuff, the 'dissonant noodling' as someone called it, the doo-wop, the rock, the jazz, the classical and synclavier works: all music. Some of it composed, some of it improvised, some of it mistake, but all of it music. It used to be, the generational difference was exposed by the elders often saying things like 'you call that music?' . . . and it has been a mark of the younger generations to always cleave unto a kind of music that would naturally be despised by the elder generation. but Frank -- probably inspired by Varese or Cage-- thought, why can't it all be music? and why can't you put a little bit of this right up next to a little bit of that? and why not make it all so big that it can take in everything? If music is harmony and rhythm and dischord and dissonance, cut up and mixed around -- not unlike a polyglot or extremely diverse neighborhood of different cultures --
then, well, wouldn't that be interesting?, instead of the same old, 4/4 or I - IV-V or whatever it was your parents were into, etc, you could mix it up, a LOT, everybody liking the bits they liked and being exposed to the other bits and having to learn how to DEAL with it, since you had to hear it, you paid for the ticket, right? Even tho, frank knew that those who REALLY couldn't deal with it, weren't patient enough to sit it out til the next bit they might like came around and like, walked out would probably tell all their friends how much it sucked with a vehemence that would make many people at least remember the name and maybe later want to check it out. But it's all music, just maybe not the season for the bit you might like. And the body of work is SO FREAKING HUGE so it DOES come around, and then ya start noticin the conceptual continuity bits that 'tie the whole body of work together' -- like it says in one of the linernotes-- and which help stitch it up tight. and it becomes this weird, huge organic whole . . . that continues to grow in this weird way. Like this, just a random stream of conciousness -- tying the bits together -- trying to make sense of it and seeing how every bit, every player, every recorded track as there for a REASON. If only that was merely a momentary whim, but essential, cuz without it, it's not the whole piece, or something. Maybe that's just me :wink:

but these were just a bunch of random thoughts I had, just a little something to keep me going from day to day


Ultimately.....WHO GIVES A FUCK, ANYWAY?!! :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:40 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded like i was advocating cutting out the more extra-musical stuff off UM. I was just trying to understand which really is worse in terms of being more offensive to Zappaphiles: adding nearly another CD worth of film dialog or cutting back some of the original noise?

Personally I would have preferred 2CDs with no extras. But I'm not really consistent about this in general. I really like the CD versions of Live In New York and Broadway The Hard Way with all the extras.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:17 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded like i was advocating cutting out the more extra-musical stuff off UM. I was just trying to understand which really is worse in terms of being more offensive to Zappaphiles: adding nearly another CD worth of film dialog or cutting back some of the original noise?

Personally I would have preferred 2CDs with no extras. But I'm not really consistent about this in general. I really like the CD versions of Live In New York and Broadway The Hard Way with all the extras.


OK, Now you guys KISS and MAKE UP! :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:39 pm 
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Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.

Aybe Sea wrote:
I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?

Lumpy Gravy wrote:
fillers on 'uncle meat'? no way.

Aybe Sea wrote:
So i figure you listen to the stuff like "God Bless America" or "Bizarre Relationship" as well?


. . . . .yep. I sure do. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:47 pm 
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:evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: GOD BLESS AMNERIKA!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:33 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded like i was advocating cutting out the more extra-musical stuff off UM. I was just trying to understand which really is worse in terms of being more offensive to Zappaphiles: adding nearly another CD worth of film dialog or cutting back some of the original noise?


no worries mate, start a poll! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:22 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded like i was advocating cutting out the more extra-musical stuff off UM. I was just trying to understand which really is worse in terms of being more offensive to Zappaphiles: adding nearly another CD worth of film dialog or cutting back some of the original noise?

Personally I would have preferred 2CDs with no extras. But I'm not really consistent about this in general. I really like the CD versions of Live In New York and Broadway The Hard Way with all the extras.


Me too!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:15 am 
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Ruben & the Jets (both versions)...interesting to note that it was recorded at the same time as UM...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:52 am 
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gnits_wreck wrote:
Ruben & the Jets (both versions)...interesting to note that it was recorded at the same time as UM...


it sure was. "The Air" and "electric aunt jemima" sound a lot like Ruben outtakes that were included on UM to assure the all-over-the-place eclecticism of the entire album by throwing some doo-wop in the mix where classical, jazz, psychedelia and chamber music were already awaiting.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
gnits_wreck wrote:
Ruben & the Jets (both versions)...interesting to note that it was recorded at the same time as UM...


it sure was. "The Air" and "electric aunt jemima" sound a lot like Ruben outtakes that were included on UM to assure the all-over-the-place eclecticism of the entire album by throwing some doo-wop in the mix where classical, jazz, psychedelia and chamber music were already awaiting.


Yeah, FZ really threw them a curve with that one. I remember a friend of mine who was a fan of the original MOI only liked "Stuff Up The Cracks"!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:52 pm 
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:D :shock: :wink:

I think Chunga's Revenge is very underrated.It's such an awesome album!I love Flo and Eddie!

Also underrated but very good are: Burnt Weeny sandwich (It's got Little House I Used To Live In, which floors me!), Waka/Jawaka (great jazzy album!) and side 2 of Just Another band From L.A. (yes, I still play records, too)...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
gnits_wreck wrote:
Ruben & the Jets (both versions)...interesting to note that it was recorded at the same time as UM...


it sure was. "The Air" and "electric aunt jemima" sound a lot like Ruben outtakes that were included on UM to assure the all-over-the-place eclecticism of the entire album by throwing some doo-wop in the mix where classical, jazz, psychedelia and chamber music were already awaiting.


Funny how those two outclass most of Ruben's material, huh?
Or maybe it's just because they're in such a weird place we admire them more..


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:18 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
gnits_wreck wrote:
Ruben & the Jets (both versions)...interesting to note that it was recorded at the same time as UM...


it sure was. "The Air" and "electric aunt jemima" sound a lot like Ruben outtakes that were included on UM to assure the all-over-the-place eclecticism of the entire album by throwing some doo-wop in the mix where classical, jazz, psychedelia and chamber music were already awaiting.


Funny how those two outclass most of Ruben's material, huh?
Or maybe it's just because they're in such a weird place we admire them more..


I like these songs too.

Did i leave an impression that I don't?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:55 pm 
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Not really, I was just commenting.

As far as I know, Frank never performed much the original 'Rubens' material live but The Air was done quite a bit. And you hear more people mentioning The Air and Electric Aunt Jemima than Anything and Later That Night.

..It's funny how where you place something in an album or suite changes how much you enjoy it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:15 pm 
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yeah, you have a point about the songs on Ruben not being performed that much.

However, i do recall a kickass live performance of "jelly roll gum drop" from 1967 that would lead into an awesome jam with Ian Underwood's great sax solo and that would evolve quite monstrously, even venturing to dissonance before tearing into "Toads of the Short Forest". Awesome.

Other than that, the material that might have been performed live off Ruben was mostly Freak Out material that was re-made for the album.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
However, i do recall a kickass live performance of "jelly roll gum drop" from 1967 that would lead into an awesome jam with Ian Underwood's great sax solo and that would evolve quite monstrously, even venturing to dissonance before tearing into "Toads of the Short Forest". Awesome.


Lies.

And when I say "Lies", I mean "Omigod that's gobsmacking amazing I must hear now"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:39 pm 
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the show i was referring to is:

1-Oct 1967, Falkoner Theatret, København, Denmark
37 min, Aud, B-/C+
America Drinks, Jelly Roll Gum Drop, jam (including Octandre, themes from Absolutely Free and King Kong), Toads Of The Short Forest, How Could I Be Such A Fool?, King Kong (incl. Ian Underwood Whips It Out)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:02 pm 
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
Well in a topic I started a while ago on Uncle Meat, someone stated that back in the '80s UM couldn't be released on just one CD because 80-minute CD's were not available back then.

Yes, that thread inspired me to burn my own one disc version of Uncle Meat. It's very handy.


Yes, that thread inspired me to burn my own dick...uh, disc....Uncle Meat is very handy. :twisted:


Who left the gate open? :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Quote:
So i figure you listen to the stuff like "God Bless America" or "Bizarre Relationship" as well?

Do you really imagine Sleeping In A Jar or Uncle Meat Variations without Bizarre?
It's like: ughughrrrr. Bizarre!
And then: possibly because he's 50 years old and wretched. Hahaha! (And then the flute opening)

Alright, God Bless America is kinda weak, but it lasts 1 1/2 minutes, and the ending percussion is great, an excerpt from We Can Shoot You.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:19 am 
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I would say AF, CR, W/J, TTR, TMFU, JFH, FZMTMOP to start.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:25 am 
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The mothers stuff was pretty ground breaking, and a means of standing out from the crowd.
I guess none of it was written thinking that in 45 years time people would still be raving about it.
Most of it is at least listenable, and a lot of it is brilliant.
But bits of it are dated and absurd now.
TT

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:34 am 
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deuce wrote:
The mothers stuff was pretty ground breaking, and a means of standing out from the crowd.
I guess none of it was written thinking that in 45 years time people would still be raving about it.
Most of it is at least listenable, and a lot of it is brilliant.
But bits of it are dated and absurd now.
TT

I personally find the "original Mothers" as the period with best music. Just look at the dischography: Freak Out is OK, Absolutely Free is badass, Money is awesome, Cruisin' is charming. And Uncle Meat, Burnt and Weasels are on my top 5 Zappa albums easily.

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