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 Post subject: Academic dopiness
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:11 pm 
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”Frank was capable of writing Valley Girl (a pop collaboration between Zappa and daughter Moon that cracked the Billboard Top 40 in 1982) but was also capable of writing like a 20th-century American composer,“ said Ron Pen of UK's John Jacobs Niles Center for American Music and host of this week's American Musicological Society conference.

Like a 20th-century American composer? Did he REALLY say Like a 20th-century American composer? Like? Like? ARGH! :x

Those who can't...

Nice Freudian slip, weeny-boy!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:52 pm 
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Yes. Bingo. Not every musicologist is believing that Zap qualifies as high-brow composer. It may take a lot more time. And it may never come.

I'm sure he has good arguments, though. It's not until it's clear he doesn't have them, that you should make fun of his statement.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:00 am 
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Who cares for the opinion of people with bow ties on?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:12 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Who cares for the opinion of people with bow ties on?


I've never seen an academic with a bow tie! Not in 7 years of college.

{Hush, Bonny. Last time I said something like this, it was after I played Clue(do): Fatal Illusion and was upset that they had an academic in a purple suit. Academics don't wear purple suits! I stated in a review.
Not long afterwards, I had class from mr Grijp, who did in fact wear purple suits. :oops: )

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:08 am 
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Don't kid yourself BBP :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:52 am 
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He is like totally so capable of writing like a 20th-century American composer.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:04 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Yes. Bingo. Not every musicologist is believing that Zap qualifies as high-brow composer. It may take a lot more time. And it may never come. I'm sure he has good arguments, though. It's not until it's clear he doesn't have them, that you should make fun of his statement.


No one ever mentioned anything about Zappa being a "high-brow" composer. I worked in academia for years and for the most part students become musicologists so they can go on and teach musicology to students who will become musicologists so they can go on and....

Here's the facts, Jack:
1. FZ lived in the 20th century
2. FZ was a composer

Therefore: FZ was a 20th century composer.

I do understand what UK musickology guy inferred by 20th century composer (a composer of 20th century music as a genre, etc) but just because his fellow wankologists have yet to deem it safe to consider FZ a 20th century composer doesn't mean he wasn't or that his music doesn't hold up. Why do you assume he has "good arguments"? You then wrote: "It's not until it's clear he doesn't have them, that you should make fun of his statement" Really? He made a statement, I disagreed with it. Let me ask you this - how can you invite the widow of a man/composer to speak at your conference and then slip in some stuffy wank bullshit like that? You know what that says to me? It says this guy wants to appear edgy and hip while also recognizing the big poo-pooing, bespectacled bitch slap he would get if he didn't say "like" a 20th century composer. That's called playing it safe and that is weak.

I am done. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:50 am 
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You're using a nice loose definition for composer.

It's just that the whole point about academics is a bunch of people who think they're the best and the smartest and the best educated, who disagree on their colleagues on various subjects, and start literally endless discussions.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:23 am 
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BBP wrote:
It's just that the whole point about academics is a bunch of people who think they're the best and the smartest and the best educated, who disagree on their colleagues on various subjects, and start literally endless discussions.


Oh yeah. And it's heavily encouraged by the university administration that these professors take that stuff, organize it, write it up and publish it in fancy peer reviewed journals. This makes the university looks more bitchen and prestigious for having it's name mentioned in connection with the publishing professor. Then the university can apply for more grant money for doing further research to keep the cycle going. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. :D

I talked to a professor once who clued me in to the fact that they are pushed so hard into getting published in those peer reviewed journals that the phrase for success and advancement in that academic world is "publish or perish!"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:31 am 
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swiftkicknow wrote:
BBP wrote:
It's just that the whole point about academics is a bunch of people who think they're the best and the smartest and the best educated, who disagree on their colleagues on various subjects, and start literally endless discussions.


Oh yeah. And it's heavily encouraged by the university administration that these professors take that stuff, organize it, write it up and publish it in fancy peer reviewed journals. This makes the university looks more bitchen and prestigious for having it's name mentioned in connection with the publishing professor. Then the university can apply for more grant money for doing further research to keep the cycle going. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. :D

I talked to a professor once who clued me in to the fact that they are pushed so hard into getting published in those peer reviewed journals that the phrase for success and advancement in that academic world is "publish or perish!"


Exactly....

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

The idea that scientists are immaculate hi-morale honest human beings is a gross inaccurate stereotype. Scientists in average are no more honest than any other profession, I guess.

Yes, there is pressure to get funding for research activity, so if your subject of study is in the news, that is good news for the area's researchers...

I don't think it might be the case in this field (climate research) but the policy of "publish or perish" has put lots of pressure on scientists, in a way that many more unscrupulous scientists forge data and make all the kinds of fraud in order to publish their "results" so they can still get monetary input from funding agencies...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:16 pm 
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BBP wrote:
You're using a nice loose definition for composer.


I didn't define "composer". I said "FZ was a composer". But I'm intrigued, will you please give us a nice tight definition of composer then? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Academic dopiness
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:19 am 
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He was nowhere near a wholesale composer, you idiot!

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:03 pm 
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swiftkicknow wrote:
BBP wrote:
It's just that the whole point about academics is a bunch of people who think they're the best and the smartest and the best educated, who disagree on their colleagues on various subjects, and start literally endless discussions.


Oh yeah. And it's heavily encouraged by the university administration that these professors take that stuff, organize it, write it up and publish it in fancy peer reviewed journals. This makes the university looks more bitchen and prestigious for having it's name mentioned in connection with the publishing professor. Then the university can apply for more grant money for doing further research to keep the cycle going. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. :D

I talked to a professor once who clued me in to the fact that they are pushed so hard into getting published in those peer reviewed journals that the phrase for success and advancement in that academic world is "publish or perish!"



Is there money, or a real market, in peer reviewed musicology journals, and does anyone here read them, so does this matter?

Don't get me wrong, I know there are music-related-academic-type journals, but does anyone (Universities, sponsors, musicians...) really care about the content, beyond the strictly academic, glorified music critic, aspect?

I don't think the definition of FZ as an American Composer matters to anyone beyond his fanbase, and that's only because we would like him to get some (deserved) recognition beyond the fanbase.

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