Zappa.com

”Frank was capable of writing Valley Girl (a pop collaboration between Zappa and daughter Moon that cracked the Billboard Top 40 in 1982) but was also capable of writing like a 20th-century American composer,“ said Ron Pen of UK's John Jacobs Niles Center for American Music and host of this week's American Musicological Society conference.

Like a 20th-century American composer? Did he REALLY say Like a 20th-century American composer? Like? Like? ARGH!

Those who can't...

Nice Freudian slip, weeny-boy!

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Yes. Bingo. Not every musicologist is believing that Zap qualifies as high-brow composer. It may take a lot more time. And it may never come.

I'm sure he has good arguments, though. It's not until it's clear he doesn't have them, that you should make fun of his statement.

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Who cares for the opinion of people with bow ties on?

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

I've never seen an academic with a bow tie! Not in 7 years of college.

{Hush, Bonny. Last time I said something like this, it was after I played Clue(do): Fatal Illusion and was upset that they had an academic in a purple suit. Academics don't wear purple suits! I stated in a review.
Not long afterwards, I had class from mr Grijp, who did in fact wear purple suits. )

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Don't kid yourself BBP

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

He is like totally so capable of writing like a 20th-century American composer.

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Some folks got it
Some folks don't
Some so yoogly
They never won't

No one ever mentioned anything about Zappa being a "high-brow" composer. I worked in academia for years and for the most part students become musicologists so they can go on and teach musicology to students who will become musicologists so they can go on and....

Here's the facts, Jack:
1. FZ lived in the 20th century
2. FZ was a composer

Therefore: FZ was a 20th century composer.

I do understand what UK musickology guy inferred by 20th century composer (a composer of 20th century music as a genre, etc) but just because his fellow wankologists have yet to deem it safe to consider FZ a 20th century composer doesn't mean he wasn't or that his music doesn't hold up. Why do you assume he has "good arguments"? You then wrote: "It's not until it's clear he doesn't have them, that you should make fun of his statement" Really? He made a statement, I disagreed with it. Let me ask you this - how can you invite the widow of a man/composer to speak at your conference and then slip in some stuffy wank bullshit like that? You know what that says to me? It says this guy wants to appear edgy and hip while also recognizing the big poo-pooing, bespectacled bitch slap he would get if he didn't say "like" a 20th century composer. That's called playing it safe and that is weak.

I am done.

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You're using a nice loose definition for composer.

It's just that the whole point about academics is a bunch of people who think they're the best and the smartest and the best educated, who disagree on their colleagues on various subjects, and start literally endless discussions.

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Oh yeah. And it's heavily encouraged by the university administration that these professors take that stuff, organize it, write it up and publish it in fancy peer reviewed journals. This makes the university looks more bitchen and prestigious for having it's name mentioned in connection with the publishing professor. Then the university can apply for more grant money for doing further research to keep the cycle going. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

I talked to a professor once who clued me in to the fact that they are pushed so hard into getting published in those peer reviewed journals that the phrase for success and advancement in that academic world is "publish or perish!"

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“The person who stands up and says, 'This is stupid,' either is asked to behave or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful 'Yes, we know! Isn't it terrific!" -Frank Zappa

Exactly....

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

I didn't define "composer". I said "FZ was a composer". But I'm intrigued, will you please give us a nice tight definition of composer then?

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He was nowhere near a wholesale composer, you idiot!

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You gotta give the people something good to read, on a Sunday

Is there money, or a real market, in peer reviewed musicology journals, and does anyone here read them, so does this matter?

Don't get me wrong, I know there are music-related-academic-type journals, but does anyone (Universities, sponsors, musicians...) really care about the content, beyond the strictly academic, glorified music critic, aspect?

I don't think the definition of FZ as an American Composer matters to anyone beyond his fanbase, and that's only because we would like him to get some (deserved) recognition beyond the fanbase.

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Guy Cool