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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:03 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
I have listened to the film excerpts on the UM CD two or three times. It says more about how Ryko never had a clue than it says about Frank. There had to be a shitload of outtake musical pieces from the UM recording that we could have got, but Ryko thought we were all goofball enough to care about the girl in the shower with her clothes on.


I don't think ryko made that that decision. I think fz did.

all the ryko releases says 'fz approved master 93.'

besides, I don't think he would have let ryko have the uncle meat audiotapes to mess around with in anyway they pleased.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:20 am 
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I would not have nothing against if they would release UM without that song... I mean it would be only 1 CD and it would be half of the price :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:36 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
tweezers wrote:
I have listened to the film excerpts on the UM CD two or three times. It says more about how Ryko never had a clue than it says about Frank. There had to be a shitload of outtake musical pieces from the UM recording that we could have got, but Ryko thought we were all goofball enough to care about the girl in the shower with her clothes on.


I don't think ryko made that that decision. I think fz did.

all the ryko releases says 'fz approved master 93.'

besides, I don't think he would have let ryko have the uncle meat audiotapes to mess around with in anyway they pleased.


You make a point, I stand corrected, still the dialogue is a waste of time.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:19 am 
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Flea wrote:
well go ahead listen
I know I wont


That's fair, but I have to ask why you say it's 'not music in any sense.' That's not really fair, is it?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:15 am 
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The rationale that something you don't enjoy is "not music" is one of the most annoying, but I thought that went out when fifty year olds first discovered hip hop on their music video stations.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:48 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
I have listened to the film excerpts on the UM CD two or three times. It says more about how Ryko never had a clue than it says about Frank.

Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I don't think ryko made that that decision. I think fz did.
all the ryko releases says 'fz approved master 93.'

tweezers wrote:
You make a point, I stand corrected, still the dialogue is a waste of time.


yeah, it's a waste of time, and a waste of space.

disappointing that fz didn't put more energy into finding something more interesting from that period.

the original 'uncle meat'-album is around 75 minutes, so it could have fit on one cd.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
... the original 'uncle meat'-album is around 75 minutes, so it could have fit on one cd.

I think that originally CDs had a maximum time of 74 minutes and this would have influenced FZ's decision at the time. Now that 80 minute CDs are available, you can fit all of Uncle Meat on one disc, sure, and I've done that myself but they weren't available at the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:41 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
... the original 'uncle meat'-album is around 75 minutes, so it could have fit on one cd.

I think that originally CDs had a maximum time of 74 minutes and this would have influenced FZ's decision at the time. Now that 80 minute CDs are available, you can fit all of Uncle Meat on one disc, sure, and I've done that myself but they weren't available at the time.

I hope they will do that, HEY maybe for 40th b-day

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:42 am 
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I will take a disc or two of outtakes from my favorite FZ LP, Uncle Meat.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:47 am 
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I, too, dislike the UM dialog, but I do applaud FZ for exercising restraint with his choices in terms of adding tracks to the remasters. The UM dialog may not be his shining moment, but it is halfway interesting the first time one listens to it. I don't know if I'd want UM outtakes, rehearsals, etc, because the original is SO good. I'm tired of jazz and rock reissues alike that add in all this extra shit, like boring interviews, three nearly identical takes of the same song, songs that are already available elswhere to anyone who cares to track them down, and crappy rehearsal recordings. Witness the 2000 remaster of The Band by The Band. A perfect folk/country/rock album, but despite the nice tune "Get Up Jake" that comes after "King Harvest Is Surely Come," the next 6 tracks are all lame alternates and rehearsals. Don't even get me started on the Yes remasters. How many piece-of-shit rehearsal recordings do we need to get a sense of how Yes worked in the studio? And who really cares anyway? So three cheers for FZ for keeping it to a minimum and giving us what we want: the music as he definitively wanted us to experience it.


Last edited by zomby truth on Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:00 am 
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And for the record, CPMOD is amazing. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:59 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
... the original 'uncle meat'-album is around 75 minutes, so it could have fit on one cd.

polydigm wrote:
I think that originally CDs had a maximum time of 74 minutes and this would have influenced FZ's decision at the time. Now that 80 minute CDs are available, you can fit all of Uncle Meat on one disc, sure, and I've done that myself but they weren't available at the time.


well, one of the longest cd's I own, is iggy pop's 'american caesar.' it's around 78 minutes and it was released 1993.

anyway, I have a feeling fz wanted 'uncle meat' to be a double. It holds two booklets, which would have been difficult to fit in a single cd-case.

what I don't understand, though, is why he included 'tengo na minchia tanta.'

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:21 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:

what I don't understand, though, is why he included 'tengo na minchia tanta.'


Conceptual continuity between some of the (translated) vocals and the film dialogue.

:arrow: Using the chicken to measure it :arrow:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
what I don't understand, though, is why he included 'tengo na minchia tanta.'

r_a_Z_Z wrote:
Conceptual continuity between some of the (translated) vocals and the film dialogue.
:arrow: Using the chicken to measure it :arrow:


well, yeah, I knew that. but, it's still a bit far-fetched, I think.

anyway; I really don't mind the inclusion of the 'uncle meat dialog' and 'tengo' too much, since I can always skip it, and go straight to 'king kong.'
(which I've done for the past ten years or so...).
fz put them on there, and... well, it was up to him.

8)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:38 am 
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It seems to me most of you either have not read "The Penal Colony" or are somehow missing the point. I see "The Chrome-Plated Megaphone of Destiny" as an audio image of the machine at the end of Kafka's story. As I listen to it, I see someone setting up the code (like a typesetter), then I hear the machine start up and I can see myself being drawn into this Rube Goldberg machine & being tatooed by it, then coming out the other end & being laughed at by spectators who are reading the label that the machine has tatooed on my back. Finally, I hear the machine self-destruct.

I'm amazed that (from what I'm reading here) others can't see this audio imagery. It's absolutely brilliant!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Scott Whittemore wrote:
It seems to me most of you either have not read "The Penal Colony" or are somehow missing the point. I see "The Chrome-Plated Megaphone of Destiny" as an audio image of the machine at the end of Kafka's story. As I listen to it, I see someone setting up the code (like a typesetter), then I hear the machine start up and I can see myself being drawn into this Rube Goldberg machine & being tatooed by it, then coming out the other end & being laughed at by spectators who are reading the label that the machine has tatooed on my back. Finally, I hear the machine self-destruct.

I'm amazed that (from what I'm reading here) others can't see this audio imagery. It's absolutely brilliant!

Look here brother, who you jivin' with that cosmik debris? :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:48 am 
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Scott Whittemore wrote:
It seems to me most of you either have not read "The Penal Colony" or are somehow missing the point. I see "The Chrome-Plated Megaphone of Destiny" as an audio image of the machine at the end of Kafka's story. As I listen to it, I see someone setting up the code (like a typesetter), then I hear the machine start up and I can see myself being drawn into this Rube Goldberg machine & being tatooed by it, then coming out the other end & being laughed at by spectators who are reading the label that the machine has tatooed on my back. Finally, I hear the machine self-destruct.

I'm amazed that (from what I'm reading here) others can't see this audio imagery. It's absolutely brilliant!

I guess nobody's responded because they're suddenly busy reading "In the Penal Colony".

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:29 am 
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What is READING???

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:13 am 
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A town in Pennsylvania, m i rite lol

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:26 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
A town in Pennsylvania, m i rite lol


You are right, and the name of a defunct railroad.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:59 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading,_Pennsylvania: "According to the 2010 census, Reading has the highest share of citizens living in poverty in the nation.[5]"
Doesn't exactly sound like a recommendation for READING. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 pm 
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ursinator wrote:
What is READING???

Part of the Reading rainbow. Take a look. It's in a book.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Apart from the Kafka connection, TCPMOD is arguably Zappa's finest moment as a musique concrete composer. Riveting.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:47 pm 
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One of the first things I did after hearing WOIIFTM for the first time - I had ignored Zappa's advice that I read it first - was hunt down a copy of a Franz Kafka book containing In the Penal Colony. The idea of the punishment machine is interesting, but I have to say after reading the whole book, I was not very impressed with Kafka and never sought to read any more of his writing.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:30 pm 
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The Penal colony is one of Kafkas strongest works. If u don't get into this, there's not much hope for u. For me Kafka is a much better writer than FZ is a musician/composer (the lonely island question, u know...). The really interesting thing about FZs advice to read the story before listening is not the relation between the story and the megaphone-piece, maybe there ain't any! It' s simply the fact that he recommended a writer at all. Especially if u consider that he basically wasn't interested in reading books generally. In one of those Gail sez threads some1 asked her about FZs reading behaviours. She confirmed that he rarely read anything but that he read almost everything from Kafka (she also mentionend Cordwainer Smith). So this is much more than a user manual to listen better to this or that casual composition. IMHO he simply reveals Kafka as one of his basic influences and this was just a good occasion to recommend him to everybody.
I was familiar with Kafka long before i discovered FZ. It was a very astonishing moment when i finally found this advice on the money album. Obviously Kafka was an as inspirational figure for FZ as he was/is for me. For those who are interested 2 get deeper into Kafka i can recommend the Kafka project: http://www.kafka.org/index.php. U can find there english translations of some of his short (or not so short) stories. Also some scholarship stuff and translations into other languages. Try a hunger artist, a report to an academy, the great wall of china. Meanwhile this site seems not 2 be maintainend anymore, but it contains a lot of gems anyway. The project Gutenberg at least provides an english translation of his novel the trial:http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7849. One of 3 novels that all weren't finished but the only 1 that has a final chapter. Another absolutely hot item is the Kafka-book of Robert Crumb and David Zane Mairowitz: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kafka%2C+crumb%2C+mairowitz
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