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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:23 am 
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for the record, worst fz song is a toss up; the sleep dirt vocal tracks are compete shit, zappa fucked up big time, like, wtf was he thinking ¿

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:33 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
for the record, worst fz song is a toss up; the sleep dirt vocal tracks are compete shit, zappa fucked up big time, like, wtf was he thinking ¿

I have actually given this some thought, I may be wrong, only the ZFT could say for sure. The conclusion I came to was that it was part of the plot line for Them Or Us the book, and a vast majority of songs that were used or described to tell that story were re-mixed on the CD releases. I would think that meant Frank was very much still trying to complete the story for the purpose of conceptual continuity. All you would need to do is program the songs to play in the proper order and you would have the completed soundtrack for the story. This was probably a good way to get the work done without releasing an individual 10+ CD recording that only a very small minority would actually purchase. Again, I might just be over thinking this, and perhaps he did it just because he wanted to hear what he had written. That would seem to have been a theme in a great many of his interviews at the time.

If you heard the vinyl mix first, I would recommend leaving the CD out of circulation for a while, I did for years. When I listened to it again with "new ears" I finally truly appreciated it.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:52 pm 
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one of the uglies wrote:
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
for the record, worst fz song is a toss up; the sleep dirt vocal tracks are compete shit, zappa fucked up big time, like, wtf was he thinking ¿

I have actually given this some thought, I may be wrong, only the ZFT could say for sure. The conclusion I came to was that it was part of the plot line for Them Or Us the book, and a vast majority of songs that were used or described to tell that story were re-mixed on the CD releases. I would think that meant Frank was very much still trying to complete the story for the purpose of conceptual continuity. All you would need to do is program the songs to play in the proper order and you would have the completed soundtrack for the story. This was probably a good way to get the work done without releasing an individual 10+ CD recording that only a very small minority would actually purchase. Again, I might just be over thinking this, and perhaps he did it just because he wanted to hear what he had written. That would seem to have been a theme in a great many of his interviews at the time.

If you heard the vinyl mix first, I would recommend leaving the CD out of circulation for a while, I did for years. When I listened to it again with "new ears" I finally truly appreciated it.


Having both the vinyl and CD it is as simple as what do I want to hear.
I enjoy each very much for what they each represent.
The Sleep Dirt CD is only a brief glimpse into Hunchentoot.
I'd love to see Hunchentoot as envisioned by FZ on Broadway.
Yes in Surround Sound.
Disbanding the Mothers was progress.

The Thana Harris Vocals are only what is used for the realization of a few songs
which are not the exact arrangement as would be done in the play.
I like the Sleep Dirt CD for what it is but the play had 42 member cast including musicians and is done in two acts.
Some of these complainers would be begging for the release if FZ had never put it out.
They would be screaming for GZ to release the Sleep Dirt CD with vocals.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
They would be screaming for GZ to release the Sleep Dirt CD with vocals.



not me!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:25 am 
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Come on Trendy. Most folks on this forum would love to have absolutely everything that Frank had ever recorded, all concert tapes, all the interviews, magazine articles etc etc. I would guess that the majority of folks on this forum are long-term fans, who by and large appreciate[i][/i] everything that FZ did, or at least tried to do.
But, some of his tunes weren't as strong as others, either in concept or execution. It's ok to have favourites, and it's ok to regard some of it as dreck. Sure, it's all part of the P/O, but some of it is more FUN.
Some of us also listen to music that has nothing to do with FZ. You know. We have perspective.

As one of the other posters noted, when someone post a message saying such and such a song is good/bad it usually makes me want to re-explore that track, and listen to it more closely, perhaps seeing it in a different context. Sometimes my opinion might then change as I get a different perspective. Sometimes my opinions are reaffirmed.
Ultimately, who gives a shit anyway. It is just entertainment.

Guy

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:37 am 
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Guy Cool wrote:
Some of us also listen to music that has nothing to do with FZ. You know. We have perspective.


Best Statement of the Year

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:40 am 
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I really don't like "Night School"..... it reminds me of bad 80's music..........
also on list;
Promiscuous
.....hmmmm
I can't think of another bad FZ tune that I wouldn't listen to regularly.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:11 am 
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one of the uglies wrote:
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
for the record, worst fz song is a toss up; the sleep dirt vocal tracks are compete shit, zappa fucked up big time, like, wtf was he thinking ¿

I have actually given this some thought, I may be wrong, only the ZFT could say for sure. The conclusion I came to was that it was part of the plot line for Them Or Us the book, and a vast majority of songs that were used or described to tell that story were re-mixed on the CD releases. I would think that meant Frank was very much still trying to complete the story for the purpose of conceptual continuity. All you would need to do is program the songs to play in the proper order and you would have the completed soundtrack for the story. This was probably a good way to get the work done without releasing an individual 10+ CD recording that only a very small minority would actually purchase. Again, I might just be over thinking this, and perhaps he did it just because he wanted to hear what he had written. That would seem to have been a theme in a great many of his interviews at the time.

If you heard the vinyl mix first, I would recommend leaving the CD out of circulation for a while, I did for years. When I listened to it again with "new ears" I finally truly appreciated it.

I am still waiting to hear it. One of the few things I have deliberately avoided (as I love Sleep Dirt). Then, I have sort of forgotten about it. Maýbe I should give it a try soon.

BTW: "Flambay" was performed with lyrics by the 1974 band (maybe just once in Göteborg on 9/25?). So, yes, it has been part of the conceptual continuity all along. Strange that a version with Napoleon singing has never officially appeared.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:13 am 
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RogerDaltreysCape wrote:
I really don't like "Night School"..... it reminds me of bad 80's music..........
also on list;
Promiscuous
.....hmmmm
I can't think of another bad FZ tune that I wouldn't listen to regularly.

NP

I'd love to hear "Night School" performed by humans. I think it's a great composition, but that Synclavier tone hasn't aged particularly well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:25 am 
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HJ wrote:

BTW: "Flambay" was performed with lyrics by the 1974 band (maybe just once in Göteborg on 9/25?). So, yes, it has been part of the conceptual continuity all along. Strange that a version with Napoleon singing has never officially appeared.


According to Nigey Lennon's book FZ tried to find a female singer to record the songs in 1974, but the people who auditioned either couldn't cut it or were offended by the lyrics.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Nightschool is grest IMHO ! Check out the guy playing the melody on guitar on youtube, really sounds good !


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:52 pm 
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madcow1515 wrote:
RogerDaltreysCape wrote:
I really don't like "Night School"..... it reminds me of bad 80's music..........
also on list;
Promiscuous
.....hmmmm
I can't think of another bad FZ tune that I wouldn't listen to regularly.

NP

I'd love to hear "Night School" performed by humans. I think it's a great composition, but that Synclavier tone hasn't aged particularly well.


Check out the version on the 'Zappa's Universe' disc-I love it.
It was also on the EM Greggery Peccary disc.

As for the synclavier version, it was one of the tracks that made me want to learn 'sequencing' with Cubase etc and its harmony, built on fifths (I think. I'm not a musicologist) really appealed to my ear. The Bickford film was cool as well.
It's another top 10, or at least top 20, tune for me.

Guy

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:40 pm 
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I'd say everything he recorded between June 1970 and December 1971, except for the 200 Motels interludes. :|


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:35 pm 
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So, any other opinions on Manx Needs Women? Does anyone out there really like it?

As for the Sleep Dirt vocal version, I for one like them. Nothing anyone says here is the final word on anything FZ did, least of all what I say, but they are not a mistake in my view, especially given that the instrumental versions are available on Läther for anyone who desires them.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:38 am 
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polydigm wrote:
So, any other opinions on Manx Needs Women? Does anyone out there really like it?

As for the Sleep Dirt vocal version, I for one like them. Nothing anyone says here is the final word on anything FZ did, least of all what I say, but they are not a mistake in my view, especially given that the instrumental versions are available on Läther for anyone who desires them.


If I'm not mistaken Manx Needs Women is actually Approximate. As an idea Approximate really intrigues me, setting up a rhythm for the musicians to play but allowing them to then choose their own tones, thus resulting in a slightly or perhaps greatly different experience every single time. I truly enjoy the diversity of the piece. I would have to say that I really like Manx Needs Women as it was the first instance of the composition I heard.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:18 am 
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one of the uglies wrote:
If I'm not mistaken Manx Needs Women is actually Approximate.
Manx Needs Women is a piece that Zappa wrote for an interview in Guitar Player magazine as a demonstration of the complex rhythms he dabbled with. It wasn't originally intended for performance, but he decided later to develop it and get the band to play it. On Zappa In New York, which is where Manx Needs Women can be found, the Purple Lagoon track actually has an approximate incorporated in it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:33 am 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
I'd say everything he recorded between June 1970 and December 1971, except for the 200 Motels interludes. :|



you crazy! the live stuff from this era is bad ass!

but i don't really like the sofa suite, kind boring. but stick it out came from this, so that makes it a little better

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:12 pm 
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one of the uglies wrote:
If you heard the vinyl mix first, I would recommend leaving the CD out of circulation for a while, I did for years....


ok, oct-2017, will give it a another spin

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:25 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
one of the uglies wrote:
If I'm not mistaken Manx Needs Women is actually Approximate.
Manx Needs Women is a piece that Zappa wrote for an interview in Guitar Player magazine as a demonstration of the complex rhythms he dabbled with. It wasn't originally intended for performance, but he decided later to develop it and get the band to play it. On Zappa In New York, which is where Manx Needs Women can be found, the Purple Lagoon track actually has an approximate incorporated in it.

Thank you for the correction.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:32 am 
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"Manx Needs Women" is great.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:14 am 
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i don't really like "Honey, don't you want a man like me","illionois enema bandit" and "dumb all over"

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:06 am 
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manichispanic wrote:
i don't really like "Honey, don't you want a man like me","illionois enema bandit" and "dumb all over"



I like the 'Honey,...' version where he calls her the 'unt' word.
FWIW 'Dumb all over' is really good too.

But, 'Advance Romance' is boring.

That's my tuppence for the day.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:34 am 
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The track "Weasles Ripped My Flesh" i used as a wake up call, so i hear it every morning, five day's a week.
I F*cking hate it

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:57 pm 
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manichispanic wrote:
i don't really like "Honey, don't you want a man like me","illionois enema bandit" and "dumb all over"

The first version of "Dumb All Over" I heard was the live cut on Have I Offended Someone. When I got around to hearing the album version a few years later, I was really disappointed. I grew to like it, but man, that live version blows it out of the water.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Zurkon_Wax wrote:
The track "Weasles Ripped My Flesh" i used as a wake up call, so i hear it every morning, five day's a week.
I F*cking hate it


Reading this just reminded me that when I was in college I'd sneak into my little brothers room when he was asleep in the morning and play Are You Hung Up at loud volume to wake him up. He so loved me for it.

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