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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:31 am 
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It strikes me that, relative to other new cds, the 'new' Zappa stuff is quite expensive (and difficult to pick up, other than mail order). I paid £25 for Wazoo, £22 for CPIII, and £16 for Imaginary Diseases (p&p inc.) which isn't cheap (OZ is £30). Is the cost high because there's a fairly limited distribution of these cds or what ?

I have been considering OSD which is £16.50 but postponed this as I managed to pick up (albeit 2nd hand) YAWYI, Them and Us and Ship Arriving.... all for the price of OSD ! Perhaps understandably there tends to be very little of the 'new' stuff available 2nd hand, but again, when it is it is expensive - when i was originally looking for CPIII i saw it on Amazon 2nd hand from £40 upwards.

By 'new' i'm talking about most of the posthumous stuff.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:34 am 
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Meant to put this in Albums or Randomonium, sorry, my mistake.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:28 am 
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bkelly wrote:
Is the cost high because there's a fairly limited distribution of these cds or what ?


maybe, but also because it's better than most of the other shit available


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:43 am 
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It costs millions* to produce one single CD.

*May not be accurate

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:39 am 
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I recall Terry Bozzio stating that printing 10,000 CDs costs $10,000.

A popular CD is mass-produced. A new Madonna may cost 20 dollars. But they produce so many of them, the prices will drop slower gradually until they're in the bargain bin. Whoever has them printed knows that the bulk will sell anyway.

New Zappa-CDs aren't mass-produced because whoever has them printed, knows that his target audience is small to begin with. So they tend to stay at the same high-entry price. I haven't seen any post-humous album under 20 euros around here.
Prices on the true FZ-albums do tend to drop. Except Civilization Phase III.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:50 am 
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BBP wrote:
I recall Terry Bozzio stating that printing 10,000 CDs costs $10,000.

Yeah, and with some places you can get that low of a price for only printing as little as 1,000 copies AND it even includes printing the artwork as well

http://www.discmakers.com/indexDigipak200.asp

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:34 am 
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bkelly wrote:
Is the cost high because ...?

Maybe, cause the recent releases are only available in the US (is that right)? In germany u can get the new CDs only as (expensive) US-imports, while the backcatalogue is available regulary. I still don't know lumpy money!!!!
:cry: :cry: :cry:
I have read an interview, where Gail Zappa stated, that they can't make money with releases like wazoo. Maybe the same situation as for FZ in the sixties: no commercial potential. I'm afraid, it won't become better.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:19 pm 
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swiftkicknow wrote:
BBP wrote:
I recall Terry Bozzio stating that printing 10,000 CDs costs $10,000.

Yeah, and with some places you can get that low of a price for only printing as little as 1,000 copies AND it even includes printing the artwork as well

http://www.discmakers.com/indexDigipak200.asp


There you go Gail.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:49 pm 
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bkelly wrote:
Is the cost high because there's a fairly limited distribution of these cds or what ?

Isn't it rather due to the Pound sterling depreciation?
In January 2007, 1 GBP = 2.15 USD = 1.44 EUR
Today, 1 GBP = 1.66 USD = 1.11 EUR


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:14 pm 
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the cost of the album is what it is; with a limited market [2000 to 3000 max. ¿ ] they probably don't rake in big profits, even with low production/distribution costs ... a £16.50 mail order cd of 'new' material is far more appealing than a 25 buck download of a 40 year old sampler lp


shipping costs are very high to/from the uk, and as maroual noted, you're taking a hit on weak currency compared to last year whan osd came out ... osd is 16 bucks plus $7-8 to ship, throw in packaging cost, £16.50 is about right; find someone local & combine orders

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:34 am 
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I wonder what the sales of the new stuff is bringing in?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:52 pm 
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Huck_Phlem wrote:
I wonder what the sales of the new stuff is bringing in?


10,000. Exactly.

*wild guess

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:49 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
It costs millions* to produce one single CD.

*May not be accurate


And don't forget the thousands of man-hours.

All posthumous releases should be made available as affordable downloads. No shipping costs, no manufacturing costs, no need to share profits with G&S if downloads are made available directly from zappa.com. Thus, more releases sold, more profit for ZFT, happier customers (especially overseas).

FZ saw the future of music distribution as detailed in TRFZB. It's time to honor his intent.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:30 am 
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the above message seems inappropriate.

-jim


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:05 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
It costs millions* to produce one single CD.

*May not be accurate


And don't forget the thousands of man-hours.

All posthumous releases should be made available as affordable downloads. No shipping costs, no manufacturing costs, no need to share profits with G&S if downloads are made available directly from zappa.com. Thus, more releases sold, more profit for ZFT, happier customers (especially overseas).

FZ saw the future of music distribution as detailed in TRFZB. It's time to honor his intent.



I've sent emails to GZ on this and she doesn't seem receptive, claiming that it's the "production" costs that limit what she can do...I told her that making them available for download (at a reasonable cost) would be only profit on their end, since there would be no need to actually "manufacture" anything, and cited bands like King Crimson, Gov't Mule, The Allman Brothers, Dave Matthews, and others for having download-able music at a premium...and she once again cited "production cost"!

I've sent her another email stating that the fact that people are downloading bootlegs of extremely cruddy quality because they want something different, and that the need to include such crap like the stuff in the last live release (come on a stupid toilet cover, and balloon?!?!) that put the price up WELL over what the average CD should be worth (especially in this downloadable age)

I think she's living in the past and has bad advice coming from somewhere!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:46 am 
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I was at the local used CD store and the guy was complaning how expensive Zappas stuff has gotten and he was showing his wholesale pricing and it was very high and vinly was rediculous... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:34 pm 
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ursinator wrote:
:cry: :cry: :cry:
I have read an interview, where Gail Zappa stated, that they can't make money with releases like wazoo. Maybe the same situation as for FZ in the sixties: no commercial potential. I'm afraid, it won't become better.


I'm not sure that the issue is that the material won't sell. Like it was when it first came out, it's playing potential was difficult becasue of the lyrics and such, and a lot of it was sold by word of mouth.

Possibly the biggest area where Gail has to learn about the business these days is to allow and license people to play Frank's material and get some residuals off that and hope that they lead to the sales of the material.

The whole trust thing is at a cross roads ... and they are going to have to grow out of their "rock star" thing, because no one gives a damn about a rock star. You either learn to take care of the art of it all, and respect it like it for what it is, or ... you'll be just another freak memory ... like the first talkie ... the first nudie ... the first ... whaever ... that no one remembers or gives a damn about!

Gail is too emotionally attached to these things to see things in a different light, and her "purist" ideal is something to be proud of, but it is not a good model for business and for fans 30 years later, and it is not going to get better. And probably even worse, the son does not have the ability to create things on his own ... he's a son ... a replicant, not an original, and I think that he is doing this to help momma pay rent and keep the archives in one piece.

I think that something different has to happen and it has to go beyond some of these fans ... but releasing the rest of the Roxy should not be an issue ... if there is money in there and you can sell 10k of these, you would be silly not to have them made!

The other side, is ... I think that Gail has taken way too much abuse from movie studios and some record companies ... and it's taking its toll. I don't think she can fight for 200 Motels anymore ... I don't think she wants to hassle this stuff anymore ... and is just biding her time.

Don't feel bad .. my mom did the same thing and you know what the children have for it all in the end? ... nothing! In every house and every country there is a GOD and the children don't mean shit, except making sure that the God lives! There is a side of it I don't have an issue with ... but the rest? ... it's ugly ... and not enough folks are helping fix it or with the issues, legal or otherwise ... so, please, make sure you want to help and assist before you bitch that you want to hear something or get something.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Art is not eternal.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:26 am 
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Thankfully, neither is crap.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:34 am 
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I'm getting a readingg... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Plook wrote:
I'm getting a readingg... :mrgreen:
I thought you said you didn't know any other languages. You obviously know at least a "smattering" of crap.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:12 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Thankfully, neither is crap.


I suppose you are referring to my posts?

A couple of 'em are pretty good.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:08 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Plook wrote:
I'm getting a readingg... :mrgreen:
I thought you said you didn't know any other languages. You obviously know at least a "smattering" of crap.


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At least I'm not fluent in diarrhea anymore... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:22 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Thankfully, neither is crap.
I suppose you are referring to my posts?
No, I read your comment and then the above popped straight into my head. It seemed an obvious development of the theme.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Yikes!

Original release's on barking pumpkin vinyl.

USD$150.00! Broadway the Hardway,
USD$250.00! Them or Us,
USD$400.00! Thing Fish box set.

and a few more listed in the vintage vaultage vinyl.

who in the cosmos is paying these prices?


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