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 Post subject: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:02 am 
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Location: Billy, the mountain...
Arizona signs tough immigration bill despite criticism
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8641346.stm

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:10 am 
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Far to late..A.Z is a mess.
I have friends in Phoenixs and Tucson.
Ask them what is going on there.
Ask them about the Mex immigrant horror.
Not even your Obabo is going to solve that.
Take it from me.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:18 am 
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Xenophobic jan?

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:26 am 
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Quote ;Xenophobic jan?

What you want Green?
A solid answer or just some personal entertainment?
Spit it out..or just bugger off.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:31 am 
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Location: CT coast, USA
The Declaration of Independence of this country of immigrants...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.."

It doesn't say "Americans are created better than the rest," it just says "all men."

The shipping of our manufacturing base to places where men are created less equal means there is more competition for jobs here at home, rather than jobs competing for employee's as it used to be, (before Clinton shipped our jovbs overseas with NAFTA and the WTO).

The abundance of unemployed not only turns hateful eyes towards the immigrants, but it is also responsible for loss of pension and medical benefits from employers, and largely responsible for the economic downturn in general, (although the banking deregulation and repeal of Glass-Stegal durning the Clinton years is the major cause of the housing crash which is also a big factor in our economic downturn.

We will continue to see brother pitted against brother until the jobs return to our country. That will happen either due to smart voters outnumbering lesser evils,...OR when cheap labor again returns to the US.

It's unfortunate to watch brother pitted against brother, hurting each other and wasting our energy where it doesn't belong... while those we voted into power get away with fucking our grandchildren out of their last dollar.

We have a voter problem, an apathy problem to be exact...it causes lesser evilism and a lack of enough informed voters to out vote them... all the rest of our woes stem from the bad politicians the lesser evils elect...brother hating brother is just another symptom.

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Xenophobia? Really? Is that the best you can do? Name calling so you don't have to actually debate the issue? Have you ever seen the damage done to the desert by these trespassers with no regard to the environment, people's property, nor someone els's identity?

These people are scofflaws and have no regard for America at all. If they can't follow the rules in the first place by entering the country through proper channels then they have to right to be here at all. The treaty of Guadalupe Hildago stipulates that Mexico has to respect our sovereign borders. America can't absorb all the downtrodden of the world and especially those who refuse to wait in line for their turn. It would be nice if we could but we can't.

it's not about Race but I know you want it to be so you don't have to answer to the real problem which is people who are not respecting the rules and waiting their turn. I guess if you point fingers and cry racism then everyone will shut up and let you have your little fit. Sorry pal it's not going to work any more.

It's about fucking time a state stands up and says enough is enough!!!! 49 more to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:59 pm 
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They are not coming across the border because someone isn't hiring them.

Arrest the business owners that hire the illegals, and illegal immigration will cease to be a problem. You can't blame desperate people for doing what you might do if you were in their shoes.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:57 pm 
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It still doesn't matter. They need to be stopped and that is that. I agree the greedy business owners know damn well they are illegal but hire them anyway. Remember there is a serious drug war going on down there and a lot of it is spilling into America.

Here are some pictures I found just by google the words trash and illegal aliens.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002160.html

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:20 am 
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Huck_Phlem wrote:
Xenophobia?

Yes...

Huck_Phlem wrote:
Really?

Yes...

Huck_Phlem wrote:
Is that the best you can do?

No, I don't think so...

Huck_Phlem wrote:
Name calling so you don't have to actually debate the issue?

I am not 'name calling', I am asking other people's opinion. And here is my take on the issue: yes, smells like Xenophobia to me.

Huck_Phlem wrote:
Have you ever seen the damage done to the desert by these trespassers with no regard to the environment, people's property, nor someone els's identity?

No.

Wasn't Arizona part of Mexico in the past? What damage can be greater than invading/stealing other nation's land. Funny to hear people from the single biggest polluter country in the world cry about the environment...

Huck_Phlem wrote:
These people are scofflaws and have no regard for America at all.

As far as I am concerned Mexicans and all other Latin America countries citizens are from America (North, Central and South America). Why the US insists in hijacking their identity?

Huck_Phlem wrote:
If they can't follow the rules in the first place by entering the country through proper channels then they have to right to be here at all.

The US didn't seem to follow the rules and used the proper channels before invading Iraq. What is the most serious crime?

Huck_Phlem wrote:
The treaty of Guadalupe Hildago stipulates that Mexico has to respect our sovereign borders.

I wish the US had respected the Iraq and Afghan borders too...

Huck_Phlem wrote:
America can't absorb all the downtrodden of the world and especially those who refuse to wait in line for their turn. It would be nice if we could but we can't.

The USA is one of the wealthiest countries in the world (much because of it's exploits abroad), it is only natural that the fucked up economy countries export people looking for better conditions of living.

Huck_Phlem wrote:
it's not about Race but I know you want it to be so you don't have to answer to the real problem which is people who are not respecting the rules and waiting their turn.

Arizona seems to be a pretty racist state to me, isn't it? So the immigration problem is a good mask to hide more racist motivations... It is not to mean every citizen there is racist, but an important part of the population and politicians might be, from what I know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijeXGv9QLRc

Huck_Phlem wrote:
I guess if you point fingers and cry racism then everyone will shut up and let you have your little fit.

That is what it seems to me, racism, discrimination... Why should one be silent when injustice is being made?

Huck_Phlem wrote:
Sorry pal it's not going to work any more.

I guess we still have to see about that. I hope the Federal govt bring this nonsense down.

Huck_Phlem wrote:
It's about fucking time a state stands up and says enough is enough!!!! 49 more to go.

Yeah, stand up, Facist America!

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:32 am 
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Actually a good point Giggy.

All things you mentioned are true, nobody will see them though (reasons are the smallest horizon, greed, egoism, fear, brain-washing, v. probably no gray matter at all, not knowing the problems which will even grow..) some immigrants are going to mix them lot up for a change. I mean, time stands still in most places, some fresh ideas would be the very thing. Okay, this won't improve matters much.

What mankind needs is a complete new approach, first of it'd be, enjoy the marvels around you, to start with!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:09 am 
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Location: Billy, the mountain...
Also, I'd like to make clear I am not for illegal immigration, but turning illegal immigrants into criminals just because they lack their papers is a huge step...

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:02 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...turning illegal immigrants into criminals just because they lack their papers is a huge step...

Illegal immigrants ARE criminals. That's what illegal means.
A rope leash wrote:
They are not coming across the border because someone isn't hiring them.
Arrest the business owners that hire the illegals, and illegal immigration will cease to be a problem. You can't blame desperate people for doing what you might do if you were in their shoes.

Arresting/charging the people who hire illegals is part of the new bill.
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...The US didn't seem to follow the rules and used the proper channels before invading Iraq...I wish the US had respected the Iraq and Afghan borders too... What is the most serious crime?

Off topic. No-one is sneaking into Iraq, or Afganistan, to live there. Also...two wrongs don't make a right (and agree, or disagree with the the immigration laws, they ARE laws). If I steal a shovel from someone in your city, does that make it alright for you to steal something of mine?

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:25 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...turning illegal immigrants into criminals just because they lack their papers is a huge step...

Illegal immigrants ARE criminals. That's what illegal means.

Tell me, Doug, I guess it is illegal to park outside on a forbidden place signalled with a proper sign - if you stop there and get a ticket, or if you get a speeding ticket, does that make you a criminal?

just plain doug wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...The US didn't seem to follow the rules and used the proper channels before invading Iraq...I wish the US had respected the Iraq and Afghan borders too... What is the most serious crime?

Off topic. No-one is sneaking into Iraq, or Afghanistan, to live there. Also...two wrongs don't make a right (and agree, or disagree with the the immigration laws, they ARE laws). If I steal a shovel from someone in your city, does that make it alright for you to steal something of mine?

While wanting foreign people to respect and abide to US Laws, the US should abide to International Treaties/Laws itself. The principle or reciprocity. Yes, two wrongs don't make one right, but which one has the worst and most serious social impact, immigration or war? And if no people are migrating there, it is because today it is like hell over there. But rest assured, plenty of private US citizens and corporations made millions out of the Iraqi people suffering and dignity by going in there.

I guess eugenic laws were laws, segregation and apartheid laws were laws, doesn't mean I need to agree with them... And that is the danger here, one can not avoid people of being racist, but a racist/fascist State is not what free people should look for, just read some history on its consequences...

All European descendant white people living in US soil are immigrants on an ultimate level...

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:00 am 
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Quote : All European descendant white people living in US soil are immigrants on an ultimate level...

True...and now you fake Americans get a taste of yer own shit.
Took a while..but it's the eye for the eye.
To see it from the sunny side...
You might understand better how the Indians felt at the time.
But at least..they gave it a serious fight.
Nothing I can say about todays Americans..it seems they just let it happen.
Weak and stupid..and above all..FATAL!
Have a nice day.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:17 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
just plain doug wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...turning illegal immigrants into criminals just because they lack their papers is a huge step...

Illegal immigrants ARE criminals. That's what illegal means.

Tell me, Doug, I guess it is illegal to park outside on a forbidden place signalled with a proper sign - if you stop there and get a ticket, or if you get a speeding ticket, does that make you a criminal?


===CRIMINAL ACT
Any crime, including an act, omission, or possession under the laws of the United States or a State or unit of general local government, which poses a substantial threat of personal injury, notwithstanding that by reason of age, insanity, intoxication or otherwise the person engaging in the act, omission, or possession was legally incapable of committing a crime. 29 USC====

Since, for example, parking in front of a fire hydrant has the possibility of causing personal injury to someone in a burning building, and therefore you get a ticket for doing it...then I would have to say, yes, in general, getting any parking ticket makes you a criminal. Especially if you are a repeat offender. Either you are, or you aren't... degree of criminality is a seperate subject for debate.

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
...While wanting foreign people to respect and abide to US Laws, the US should abide to International Treaties/Laws itself. The principle or reciprocity. Yes, two wrongs don't make one right, but which one has the worst and most serious social impact, immigration or war? And if no people are migrating there, it is because today it is like hell over there. But rest assured, plenty of private US citizens and corporations made millions out of the Iraqi people suffering and dignity by going in there.

I guess eugenic laws were laws, segregation and apartheid laws were laws, doesn't mean I need to agree with them... And that is the danger here, one can not avoid people of being racist, but a racist/fascist State is not what free people should look for, just read some history on its consequences...

All European descendant white people living in US soil are immigrants on an ultimate level...

That's fine, but I'm not dealing with "should be, would be" situations. Or, comparing what is worse. If two things are go against the laws, then both are wrong (at this moment in time) and the existance of one does not excuse the other.
And my ancestors (and my wife) obeyed all the immigration regulations that were in effect, in Canada, at the time they arrived.

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:21 am 
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Another thought; What the hell do you think the Mexican government does when they find an illeagle american in their country?

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:30 am 
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Quote : Another thought; What the hell do you think the Mexican government does when they find an illeagle american in their country?

Ha..ha.
Stuff him with dope and send him back accross the border.
Naturally.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:30 am 
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ney, not sneaking into Iraq or Afghanistan, more sort of make it inhabitable for all times, lethal, eh legal enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:47 am 
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such hostility :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:53 pm 
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"I know you are but what am I? ... Oh yea well they started it?" Your response just proves it right there. Your debating skills really have shown how immature you are. I don't even know why I bothered to respond to your flame bait thread in the first place. Now I know why. What a waste of time.

So tell me is that the kind of tactic you would use in front of a judge if you got caught red handed trespassing? I'm sure you would.

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:42 pm 
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when some monopolists, the cart-in-the-sand-drivers, almost all earthlings hand-cuff you, draw your last drop of blood, force you to that in effect superfluous farce of a trial anyway and let the most atrocious deeds look like they all care.

After four month on board this here forum i met all Zappa-Experts, not one who truly has understood him. You can turn all thoughts in the old-fashioned way as long as you want, it still is discussing the sensational, obvious let's say mess, not even coming near a new approach to tackling the causes. Probably reason be that they all keep and keep on thinking that they so can get the best out of it, ....more like the rest. You may have my morsel of ...what is this here? .... language takes it time out and allows itself to an overdose. No matter what one tries to communicate, even here the words are lost (does this say the most?..) Later more. Now first a coffee with a cup. That's sossery, innit?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:11 pm 
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
the marvelous American singer/songwriter,
Randy Newman, for a German audience 15 years ago
enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy2E1FJM76k

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:10 am 
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haha! very funny. but i thought the song might be "political science"..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:09 am 
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So I guess it is OK to discuss minarets and supposed jihads but not the controversial law on the immigration problem...

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 Post subject: Re: Xenophobic Arizona?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:19 am 
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One could ask anyone in Arizona where Mexico is.... or what is common sense, minimum knowledge, caring, love, humour, apropos, me's looking for the fun of it all no-more. Or a human for one or more solutions to get just one of the inumerous ..problems? ..sorted. I'm seriously progcupied with getting a festive disco off the ground.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... d=41536755 :?

You can be sure that when homo sapiens' most brilliant brain comes up with something small-minded like this, they'll need something that is not to be found on this planet. ... maybe a quick new-school lesson in no time, started and showed them how the Stonehenge people lived, eg. ...and what is possible, the likes of changings for the better all the time! enough and to spare! adventures! interesting occupations! fine communications! true caring! awesome affection! a bit of magic!

..and music on the radio that is almost better than alphorns, bagpipes and ...what izzit they are fiddling with? frogs and crickets are not such a pain.

Have to ask my father for that surplus set of wireless hyfly helmet. ...and free-island world records.


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