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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:51 pm 
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I was just watching the above interview with Dweezil and towards the end of it, he's asked what are ZPZ's plans for next year. Dweezil responds by saying a) that they'll be playing with some Alumni here and there (this, as we know already, is obviously Flo & Eddie) and b) how they're going to be touring with a group who's reforming and that are big in the jazz world. I would bet big $$$ this is Return To Forever because they're touring again next year...but this time, they're billed as RTF4 (Corea, Clarke, White, Gambale & Ponty).

I also checked Frank Gambale's site a few days ago and here's a rough schedule without any specific dates announced:

RTF4:

February 6-18 ~ Australia
June 13-30 ~ US and Canada
July ~ Europe
August through mid-September ~ US
September 22 through mid-October ~ Japan & South East Asia

If ZPZ does tour with RTF4 next year, they'll probably only be playing North American dates with them and they'll be opening for them too.


Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:58 pm 
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I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Helicopter coming in for a landing.
Someone sure has the radar station up and running.
Stayed tuned to http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:43 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.


Really?

Well, I'd say the RTF Anthology is a good place to start. It's where I started when I got into them over three and a half years ago. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Return- ... B0017V7HXY

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:22 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.


Really?

Well, I'd say the RTF Anthology is a good place to start. It's where I started when I got into them over three and a half years ago. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Return- ... B0017V7HXY


Yes, really. And I've never heard more than a couple of King Crimson songs. And Mahavishnu. I might like it. I'll have to check it out.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:58 am 
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So we can once again wish we could have been there on the other side of the Atlantic where they do cool things instead of playing in teeny tiny villages so you need to leave the concert early?
(Oh get over it Bon.)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:58 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.



Start with Light as a Feather, then try Mad Hatter

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:09 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
...but this time, they're billed as RTF4 (Corea, Clarke, White, Gambale & Ponty).

No di Meola? Too bad.
My fav RTF tune is Duel of the Jester and the Tyrant from my fav RTF Album, Romantic Warrior, THE Jazz-Fusion Album imo. Next would be Where Have I Known You Before. Light as a Feather is a great album, but to me sounds more like a Corea solo album.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:48 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.



Start with Light as a Feather, then try Mad Hatter


Of due note correction.

"The Mad Hatter" is not a Return To Forever project.
That is a Chic Corea SOLO project.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:44 am 
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Cobham and Duke have been in talks about reforming the original Cobham Duke Band. Sounds like another possibility? Looking forward to seeing RTF4. After seeing them with Dimeola a few years ago I thought they would never get together again. I just never pondered the possibility of doing it without Al.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:05 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.



Start with Light as a Feather, then try Mad Hatter


Mad Hatter is a Corea post-RTF solo album of not too high quality imo.

The best "RTF" album is the Corea '72 solo album named Return to Forever. The rendition of "Sometime Ago - La Fiesta" on the B-side is an epic. But the band RTF as they will probably tour now was another entity. Light as a Feather is the same line up (and featuring the classic "Spain") as on the Corea solo album, but on subsequent releases Airto, Purim and Joe Farell were replaced by Lenny White and Al DiMeola (Bill Connors for one album). The music changed radically.

Of the records with the "heavier band" I personally find Romantic Warrior the best. From what I have seen on DVD from their last tour, "Duel of the Jester and the Tyrant" is a frequent crowd pleaser at the end.

With Ponty in the band he could join ZPZ and play King Kong! That would be cool. Hope they come to Copenhagen (Corea almost NEVER misses Copenhagen on his European tours)!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:39 am 
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If true, this ups the ante to see the tour in 2011. Flo & Eddie plus RTF makes for a very interesting line-up even if it means a slightly shorter set for ZPZ. Wish Dimeola was involved but Gambale is no slouch either.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Good God. That'll really bring in the younger fans :roll: . RTF is everything I hate about fusion, along with most of Weather Report. That should be a total wankfest.

I love Miles electric era, Mahavishnu Orch(mk1 only), Herbie(Warner Bros. era mainly), and Jaco solo.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Hey all, I was hanging with ZPZ's booking agent (John from Pinnacle) backstage at the Beacon 12/17 show and he and another agent (was it you, Disco Boy? That's what John B. called you!) were discussing the RTF/ZPZ team up for the summer of 2011. Apparently, they had originally wanted to book the show at Carnegie Hall in NYC, but it wound up being at the Beacon Theater - so, I'm guessing that the RTF/ZPZ tour is indeed on! Personally, I prefer the Beacon for it's intimacy (approx. 2600 capacity) despite the legendary acoustics at Carnegie Hall. ZPZ's agent said that the RTF line-up was with Bill Connors, which is FAR more thrilling that Frank Gambale (who is such a cheeser!), but I think he just got the names confused.
There was much open discussion about the viability of Flo & Eddie touring with ZPZ, esp. with their tour manager (?) who was asking me if I thought it was a good idea. Of course I said yes - I think it's important for ZPZ to sprinkle in some FZ/MOI alumni in with the stellar personnel that Dweezil has assembled. As of 12/17, it didn't seem that it was a done-deal at all (Flo & Eddie).
Also discussed was the fact that pairing up ZPZ with other acts (jam bands, fusion bands, prog rock bands, etc.) doesn't necessarily boost ticket sales for the bill. The theory discussed was that the hard-core fan base of each band knows that "their" band will be playing a truncated set due to sharing the bill. The Dream Theater/ZPZ was referenced as evidence - apparently, ticket sales were better for ZPZ alone than the shows the tour they did with Dream Theater. Personally, I detest Dream Theater, which is why I passed on that tour.
That said, having Jean-Luc Ponty on board w/RTF obviously begs for the King Kong/ZPZ crossover & makes the RTF/ZPZ team up, which isn't the most organic fit to be blunt, make a lot of sense.
Thoughts?
-=A

ps. Disco Boy, if you are indeed the aforementioned agent - it was nice to meet you last Fri! What a show - had a blast! Sorry if posting any of this is in bad form or is a violation of personal "backstage" chat - my only intention is to spark lively discussion & get the details out to the fans that care!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:09 pm 
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I forgot to mention that during our discussion, the theme of the next ZPZ tour was going to be playing "Over-nite Sensation" and "One Size Fits All" in their entirety, which contradicts the Flo & Eddie alumni tour. They could both be in the works though, for all I know...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:44 pm 
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Cal, try the 2 cd set from RTF's tour last year. It's got the main "hits," the most recent arrangements, and really hot playing by all 4 of them. You'd have to be dead (or at least not a fusion fan) not to like it. It's recorded really well, and is generally boffo.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Very interesting, Flo & Eddie means early early 70's, that is a way back reach for the time machine!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:22 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
...but this time, they're billed as RTF4 (Corea, Clarke, White, Gambale & Ponty).

No di Meola? Too bad.


Nope. From what Al said last year, Chick and him had some kind of falling out.

The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
My fav RTF tune is Duel of the Jester and the Tyrant from my fav RTF Album, Romantic Warrior, THE Jazz-Fusion Album imo. Next would be Where Have I Known You Before. Light as a Feather is a great album, but to me sounds more like a Corea solo album.


My favourite RTF album is a tie between Where Have I Known You Before? & No Mystery.

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Last edited by Disco Boy on Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:23 pm 
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spm69 wrote:
Cobham and Duke have been in talks about reforming the original Cobham Duke Band.


That would be fantastic!

spm69 wrote:
Sounds like another possibility?


Well, not anymore... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:50 pm 
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AndyAction wrote:
Hey all, I was hanging with ZPZ's booking agent (John from Pinnacle) backstage at the Beacon 12/17 show and he and another agent (was it you, Disco Boy? That's what John B. called you!) were discussing the RTF/ZPZ team up for the summer of 2011. Apparently, they had originally wanted to book the show at Carnegie Hall in NYC, but it wound up being at the Beacon Theater - so, I'm guessing that the RTF/ZPZ tour is indeed on! Personally, I prefer the Beacon for it's intimacy (approx. 2600 capacity) despite the legendary acoustics at Carnegie Hall. ZPZ's agent said that the RTF line-up was with Bill Connors, which is FAR more thrilling that Frank Gambale (who is such a cheeser!), but I think he just got the names confused.
There was much open discussion about the viability of Flo & Eddie touring with ZPZ, esp. with their tour manager (?) who was asking me if I thought it was a good idea. Of course I said yes - I think it's important for ZPZ to sprinkle in some FZ/MOI alumni in with the stellar personnel that Dweezil has assembled. As of 12/17, it didn't seem that it was a done-deal at all (Flo & Eddie).
Also discussed was the fact that pairing up ZPZ with other acts (jam bands, fusion bands, prog rock bands, etc.) doesn't necessarily boost ticket sales for the bill. The theory discussed was that the hard-core fan base of each band knows that "their" band will be playing a truncated set due to sharing the bill. The Dream Theater/ZPZ was referenced as evidence - apparently, ticket sales were better for ZPZ alone than the shows the tour they did with Dream Theater. Personally, I detest Dream Theater, which is why I passed on that tour.
That said, having Jean-Luc Ponty on board w/RTF obviously begs for the King Kong/ZPZ crossover & makes the RTF/ZPZ team up, which isn't the most organic fit to be blunt, make a lot of sense.
Thoughts?
-=A

ps. Disco Boy, if you are indeed the aforementioned agent - it was nice to meet you last Fri! What a show - had a blast! Sorry if posting any of this is in bad form or is a violation of personal "backstage" chat - my only intention is to spark lively discussion & get the details out to the fans that care!

I forgot to mention that during our discussion, the theme of the next ZPZ tour was going to be playing "Over-nite Sensation" and "One Size Fits All" in their entirety, which contradicts the Flo & Eddie alumni tour. They could both be in the works though, for all I know...


I'm not a booking agent and I wasn't at the Beacon Theater show last week. I wish I was, though! And I'm not sure why John was referring to me when you were talking with him? But I have had discussions with John through private message on this forum a few times.

RTF4 were supposed to include Connors in the line-up on this upcoming tour (after all, he, along with Chaka Khan and Ponty are on the new Corea, Clarke & White album entitled, Forever, that's already been released in Japan and will be issued elsewhere in June...)...but for some reason, Connors dropped out, so they replaced him with Gambale.

Agreed on the point that some ZPZ fans won't come to the RTF4/ZPZ shows in the summer for some of the reasons you've already mentioned and since ZPZ will probably only get an hour playing time, tops. I would though! However, I was somewhat surprised that the Dream Theater/ZPZ tour last year didn't do as well as it should've.

Since ZPZ perform three or four North American legs per year (along with one or two UK/European legs annually), there'll be plenty of room for them to play One Size Fits All & Over-Nite Sensation in their entireties, tour with RTF4 AND tour with Flo & Eddie. But now the question for us here is, which markets will get one of these three line-ups (markets like, LA & NYC will probably get two of the three line-ups)?..

Thanks for the scoop! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Cal, try the 2 cd set from RTF's tour last year. It's got the main "hits," the most recent arrangements, and really hot playing by all 4 of them. You'd have to be dead (or at least not a fusion fan) not to like it. It's recorded really well, and is generally boffo.


Returns is a decent place to start...but I think their individual solos go on for way too long...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:01 am 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Good God. That'll really bring in the younger fans :roll: . RTF is everything I hate about fusion, along with most of Weather Report. That should be a total wankfest.

I love Miles electric era, Mahavishnu Orch(mk1 only), Herbie(Warner Bros. era mainly), and Jaco solo.

"Wankfest"? I understand your point to some extent with RTF, but not wrt. Weather Report. Not much wanking going on there imo (not more than Jaco solo, which sometimes could be a bit wanking). Wayne Shorter "wanking" as Al DiMeola? Give me a break. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:21 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I've never heard RTF in any form. Recommend a recording, please.



Start with Light as a Feather, then try Mad Hatter


Of due note correction.

"The Mad Hatter" is not a Return To Forever project.
That is a Chic Corea SOLO project.



Yea I know, just trying to toss out ideas with much of the same music, as for light as a feather ,well joe farrell is worth listening daily, and yes the first RTF lp is the best, AIRTO plays drums and is great, also try Chicks lp Friends,, Leprechaun is a must have !!!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:24 am 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Good God. That'll really bring in the younger fans :roll: . RTF is everything I hate about fusion, along with most of Weather Report. That should be a total wankfest.

I love Miles electric era, Mahavishnu Orch(mk1 only), Herbie(Warner Bros. era mainly), and Jaco solo.



Definitely do NOT listen to this guy go listen to Weather Report and RTF, for your self.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:03 am 
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The title track from The Romantic Warrier is one of my all time favorite pieces of music ever recorded by any band. This is what an "unplugged" band should sound like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lObVilGPjHc


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