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 Post subject: Let's Mine the Harbour!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:49 am 
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Hi y'all,

I'm curious about the phrase "Let's Mine the Harbour!" which Frank drops into several songs in Does Humour Belong in Music;

Does anyone here know what the reference is?

I imagine with it being the mid 80's it has something to do with Reagan and American foreign policy; perhaps some military stupidity or incident but i haven't been able to find any news story from that time that illuminates its origin.

If anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

thanks

Schmeng


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:32 am 
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I got a feeling because the concert is on NYC pier,A shipping port which has Harbor(s) and a port has a Pier.

Also I got a feeling On YCDTOSA vol 3,Isn't that amazing Saying comes from a 1983/84? show Called Just Amazing,i sure they would say the same thing on there after they show a clip of somebody doing a Stunt mostly cars or motorcycles i was a kid then i can remember a guy tried too jump a head on car,his foot was just about still attached too his leg.

I not sure about Hi Ho Silver,i remember there was a topic on this one(the search function on this site will sort that out)

All the sayings on VOL 3 that is why it is my Favorite in the vol series

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:36 am 
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My ears hear "mind" as in :to pay attention to...changing the possible meaning.

Mine vs. Mind....discuss. Change just one letter of a word and it changes the meaning. Context...Ask yourself: What is the context?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Phew, I was already traumatized by the Mister America Walk On By verse.

I always thought it was let's mind the harbour... But (I just checked) it is not :shock:

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/You_Can%27t_Do_That_On_Stage_Anymore_Vol_6.html

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:34 pm 
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They might not have any connection, but earlier in the month Reagan had uttered his "bombing Russia in 5 minutes" line.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:34 pm 
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Bu;; SHIT :smoke:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:42 pm 
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It's just the fuckin' NYC harbour FZ played.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm 
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My_Name_Is_Fritz wrote:
It's just the fuckin' NYC harbour FZ played.


I agree.
Some folks look a little too deeply in lyrics for some kind of "cryptic message." It happened to Charles Manson and his Beatles Albums. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Schmeng wrote:
Hi y'all,

I'm curious about the phrase "Let's Mine the Harbour!" which Frank drops into several songs in Does Humour Belong in Music;

Does anyone here know what the reference is?

I imagine with it being the mid 80's it has something to do with Reagan and American foreign policy; perhaps some military stupidity or incident but i haven't been able to find any news story from that time that illuminates its origin.

If anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

thanks

Schmeng


From here:

"In Jan. 1984, mines were laid in Sandino harbor in Nicaragua, accompanied by other mine-layings, sabotage of Sandanista communications, and destruction of an arms depot. In April, it was disclosed that the CIA had conducted the action, and a Senate resolution condemned the mining 84-12.
The mines were designed primarily to damage and scare off ships rather than destroy them, but they were a clear violation of international law. The Sandanistas took their case to the International Court of Justice in the Hague (popularly known as the World Court) and won, though the administration refused in advance to recognize the court’s jurisdiction. The mining of the harbors was an example of “force against another state,” the court said; US support of the contras “amounts to an intervention of one state in he internal affairs of the other.”
By 1984 the contras had become an end in themselves. Loyalty to the contras had become the litmus test for loyalty to “Reagan’s policy” among conservatives."

and here's the wiki on the court case.

the website for global security has a great article on that

and I'm pretty sure Frank talks about the Reagan order explicitly in an interview, I'm looking

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:57 am 
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...wow... deeper meaning... Thanks, man 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:59 am 
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Hmmm....valid point which is worth concidering.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:43 am 
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Thanks Punk ! :D

That's the reference I was looking for.

I have relatives that live there and lived though that crazy shit then.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:01 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
Schmeng wrote:
Hi y'all,

I'm curious about the phrase "Let's Mine the Harbour!" which Frank drops into several songs in Does Humour Belong in Music;

Does anyone here know what the reference is?

I imagine with it being the mid 80's it has something to do with Reagan and American foreign policy; perhaps some military stupidity or incident but i haven't been able to find any news story from that time that illuminates its origin.

If anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

thanks

Schmeng


From here:

"In Jan. 1984, mines were laid in Sandino harbor in Nicaragua, accompanied by other mine-layings, sabotage of Sandanista communications, and destruction of an arms depot. In April, it was disclosed that the CIA had conducted the action, and a Senate resolution condemned the mining 84-12.
The mines were designed primarily to damage and scare off ships rather than destroy them, but they were a clear violation of international law. The Sandanistas took their case to the International Court of Justice in the Hague (popularly known as the World Court) and won, though the administration refused in advance to recognize the court’s jurisdiction. The mining of the harbors was an example of “force against another state,” the court said; US support of the contras “amounts to an intervention of one state in he internal affairs of the other.”
By 1984 the contras had become an end in themselves. Loyalty to the contras had become the litmus test for loyalty to “Reagan’s policy” among conservatives."

and here's the wiki on the court case.

the website for global security has a great article on that

and I'm pretty sure Frank talks about the Reagan order explicitly in an interview, I'm looking
Nice that is quite possible where it originated from.

Found this.
Comments: As payback for all the great Zappa I've gotten from my friends here on the groove, I thought I'd give one back. While not the best of the masters I've made, I' have only a few of Frank, and this one sticks in my mind because he used this "mine the harbour" theme, as next to the Peir resides the Air Craft carrier "Intrepid". Serving as a floating sea-air-space museum on the Hudson River, its presence is impossible to ignore. Looking out from the stage the aircraft carrier was a huge wall, lining the left hand side of the venue, topped with F-14's, F-16's and tomahawk helicopters, leading out to the waters of the Hudson river. Also at the time there was Pres. Reagan’s long-standing foreign-policy initiative to assist anti-Communist guerrillas, or "contras", in thwarting alleged Soviet-Cuban inroads into Nicaragua and to pressure the Sandinista government to hold elections and negotiate with its neighbors. In Jan. 1984, mines were laid in Sandino harbor in Nicaragua, accompanied by other mine-layings, and sabotage of Sandanista communications. In April, it was disclosed that the CIA had conducted the action, and a Senate resolution condemned the mining. The mines were designed primarily to damage and scare off ships rather than destroy them, but they were a clear violation of international law. The Sandanistas took their case to the International Court of Justice in the Hague (popularly known as the World Court) and won, though the Reagan administration refused in advance to recognize the court’s jurisdiction. Always politically aware Frank used this as a theme several times during the prefomance.
Overall the quality varies from good to very good, as stealth was a way of life back then, especially at Zappa shows . The setlist was dirived from the Zappateers database, and includes a song I believe omitted from their setlist. One song is cut short due to tape flip around 40 minutes and several seconds is missing from the tape swap at aprox. 85 minutes but was spliced together cleanly. Master quality, no hiss, some inevitable crowd noise, and some sparodic level changes as the mics were hand-held. Overall a very enjoyable show, Frank is very congenial, talking to the NY audience, and gracious in his acceptance of all the blow-up dolls passed on stage toward the encores. My original intentent was to seed 8-16 JBT NY, but that was seeded just a before the groove went down.... Look for that in the not-to-distant future.
Enjoy!
from here.
http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11916

I always wondered why Ike is looking skywards.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:41 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
Schmeng wrote:
Hi y'all,

I'm curious about the phrase "Let's Mine the Harbour!" which Frank drops into several songs in Does Humour Belong in Music;

Does anyone here know what the reference is?

I imagine with it being the mid 80's it has something to do with Reagan and American foreign policy; perhaps some military stupidity or incident but i haven't been able to find any news story from that time that illuminates its origin.

If anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

thanks

Schmeng


From here:

"In Jan. 1984, mines were laid in Sandino harbor in Nicaragua, accompanied by other mine-layings, sabotage of Sandanista communications, and destruction of an arms depot. In April, it was disclosed that the CIA had conducted the action, and a Senate resolution condemned the mining 84-12.
The mines were designed primarily to damage and scare off ships rather than destroy them, but they were a clear violation of international law. The Sandanistas took their case to the International Court of Justice in the Hague (popularly known as the World Court) and won, though the administration refused in advance to recognize the court’s jurisdiction. The mining of the harbors was an example of “force against another state,” the court said; US support of the contras “amounts to an intervention of one state in he internal affairs of the other.”
By 1984 the contras had become an end in themselves. Loyalty to the contras had become the litmus test for loyalty to “Reagan’s policy” among conservatives."

and here's the wiki on the court case.

the website for global security has a great article on that

and I'm pretty sure Frank talks about the Reagan order explicitly in an interview, I'm looking


Thankyou! That's excellent! I was pretty sure it would be something like that; Frank didn't say controversial things to be trivial or even "controversial" but to alert people to what was going on around them.

Thanks so much for clearing that up.

As a UK Zappa fan i didn't know all the crimes of the Reagan era gov; although I've heard about the contras and Sandinista (thanks to The Clash album Sandinista!) I didn't know the contras had actually mined a harbour... but I'm not surprised.

What I am surprised is how much Reagan is praised by Republicans these days; who seem to have selective memories about their recent history....


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Thanks guys I knew it was something like that and it makes more sense now!

I did reply thanks the other day but it doesn't seem to have been posted.

anyway cheers!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:52 pm 
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I always took it as MIND the Harbour. As in watch out for the Sailors coming off the ships?!?!?!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Milton Bradley wrote:
My_Name_Is_Fritz wrote:
It's just the fuckin' NYC harbour FZ played.


I agree.
Some folks look a little too deeply in lyrics for some kind of "cryptic message." It happened to Charles Manson and his Beatles Albums. :wink:



or overzealous radiohead fans


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:39 pm 
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The secret word of the night apparently is "Let's Mine The Harbor". Apart from the music, the video also has a couple of small interview excerpts, here are excerpts of the excerpts...

Audience: You have spoken out against drugs, so why do you smoke cigarettes?
Zappa: Well, to me, a cigarette is food. Now that may be a baffling concept for people in San Francisco who have this theory that they will live forever if they stamp out tobacco smoke. I find this a little bit hard to deal with. I live my live eating these things (pointing at cigarette) and drinking the black water in this cup here.
Zappa: The first thing you do is, whenever Ronald Reagan is speaking on television, turn it on and turn the sound down, and put your child in front of the set and point at him (Reagan) and say: "If he asks you to get into a car, offers you candy or tells you to go fight in Nicaragua, tell him: No!"

http://everything2.com/title/Does%2520H ... Music%253F


Who is radiohead ? :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:30 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
The secret word of the night apparently is "Let's Mine The Harbor". Apart from the music, the video also has a couple of small interview excerpts, here are excerpts of the excerpts...

Audience: You have spoken out against drugs, so why do you smoke cigarettes?
Zappa: Well, to me, a cigarette is food. Now that may be a baffling concept for people in San Francisco who have this theory that they will live forever if they stamp out tobacco smoke. I find this a little bit hard to deal with. I live my live eating these things (pointing at cigarette) and drinking the black water in this cup here.
Zappa: The first thing you do is, whenever Ronald Reagan is speaking on television, turn it on and turn the sound down, and put your child in front of the set and point at him (Reagan) and say: "If he asks you to get into a car, offers you candy or tells you to go fight in Nicaragua, tell him: No!"

http://everything2.com/title/Does%2520H ... Music%253F


Who is radiohead ? :wink:


I was at this show. it's also on does humor belong in music and some dumb press lady right in front of me asked him a question about religion and I snorked. Frank pointed at me and said "what he said"

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Zappa: The first thing you do is, whenever Ronald Reagan is speaking on television, turn it on and turn the sound down, and put your child in front of the set and point at him (Reagan) and say: "If he asks you to get into a car, offers you candy or tells you to go fight in Nicaragua, tell him: No!"


Frank Zappa was ahead of his time. He accurately assessed the lies and deception of politicians. I came of age during the Vietnam War. My parents knew LBJ was warmongering for no good reason and influenced my views. When Bush the Elder and Bush the Junior came to office and got us dubiously involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, this just reminded me that politicians and monied interests love to get involved in wars, when they do not pay the price in blood or their own funds. Frank Zappa was a Paul Revere, he sounded an alarm for folks, let them know of the dangers approaching. His role as a political satirist and commentator was as remarkable as his talent in music.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Oh good grief.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:35 am 
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Nurse!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:00 am 
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I always liked his advice about US marshalls carrying pork aerosol grenades on board airliners...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:16 pm 
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mmmmmmmm pork


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Unfortunately, a high-cholesterol rating has forbidden me the pleasures of pork and it's derivatives... :(


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