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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Dweezil has done a great job with ZPZ but I think maybe it has run it's course without it drifting into nostalgia. I have been a Dweezil fan since the "My Mother is a Space Cadet/Crunchy Water" back when he was, what, 12 years old. Dweezil is a great guitar player in his own right, one of the best new rock players in the last 20 years imo. Even though it's impossible, I'd like to see him try to get out from under the shadow of the father (while at the same time honoring him). He's put himself between a rock and a hard place artistically by soley playing his Dad's music. I think Dweezil is capable of more. Back in the days of "Z", Dweezil's early '90's band with Ahmet, he used to intersperse Frank's music into his set. I had bootlegs of Dweezil playing G Spot Tornado and other FZ songs with Z. "G Spot" is a very technically challenging song and imo Dweezil was nailing it even back then even without out all the additional woodshedding he did prior to ZPZ. Anyway, at this point I'd rather go see Dweezil playing his own music (and a few choice FZ covers) rather than drift into becoming the coolest Vegas tribute act ever.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:28 pm 
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maybe he could do ZPZ every other year or something.

I love Shampoo Horn. I need to get Music for Pets.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Yeah, something like that. Make it (ZPZ) a special thing. I'd like to see Dweezil go out and just be himself and rock out playing his own music. He's good enough and has enough name recognition of his own to do that I think. Just go out with a small rock band (4 or 5 pieces) and rip it up. You're right, Shampoohorn is really good!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:27 am 
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My problem with Dweezil's music is his ego. "Look at me, I play Eruption backwards. Yeah it sounds shit, but I can play Eruption!! Backwards!!" "Look, I'm a much better player than my father was!" "I'm so much better than Eddie van Halen now, isn't it cool!"
DZ currently has a very negative ratio between good songs and show off. It's not like he can combine the two, it's not like he's ever going to put his cock swinging behind locked doors to show the world he can do some composing... He has a long way to go. I've managed to go from Dweezil-fanhood to a dislike of him, and he did it all himself.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:47 am 
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Can he really play this backwards?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skMZyT7-SdE

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:07 am 
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I agree with BBP. While he's PERFECT for ZPZ, he's a pretty much just a show off when he plays other stuff. His own material doesn't do a thing for me, unfortunately. Having said that, his work with his dad's music is stellar, and the development of his soloing style to his dad's music, as well. I hope he keeps ZPZ going forever......

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:48 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Can he really play this backwards?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skMZyT7-SdE


Check Go With What You Know. Track 2.

Did I ever tell ya I tried to study the Inca Roads Guacamole Queen lick backwards?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:25 am 
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I also agree with you bpp, but as a side observation other musicians are quite accomplished while not being great composers.

So I guess that is why I enjoy many guitarists, Steve Kahn, Al Dimeola, Vic Juris come to mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:50 am 
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I'm sorry but I just don't see the self absorbed DZ, he at first was criticized for being to subdued and now that he has some stage presence, it is being called self centered. Anyway you cut it in order to stand in front of a large crowd and perform at a high level you have to have a high degree of self cofidence, this sometimes can be seen by normal folk as egotistical, but in reality it is what is required to be really good at anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 am 
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Dweezil's actually still shy on stage, he definitely doesn't warm up until the audience does and there is a good chance he doesn't warm up at all (say, Amsterdam 2006, or Eindhoven 2010). He is quite snobbish, even arrogant off stage. Check his interviews or blogs.

Well, Bravo Sierra, you're right there. Dweezil has some composing qualities though: but his ego often overflows that.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:07 am 
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BBP wrote:
Dweezil's actually still shy on stage, he definitely doesn't warm up until the audience does and there is a good chance he doesn't warm up at all (say, Amsterdam 2006, or Eindhoven 2010). He is quite snobbish, even arrogant off stage. Check his interviews or blogs.

Well, Bravo Sierra, you're right there. Dweezil has some composing qualities though: but his ego often overflows that.



Thats why I am so confused I met him after a show with Lisa Loeb in SF at Slims in 2002 and he was the nicest, friendly, unassuming persaon to have a conversation with. We spoke for 20 or 30 minutes, he is real in to technical stuff and although I am well versed in some areas I was barely keeping up. I then briefly met with him at Berkley and he actually remembered our conversation at Slims. Doing interviews is sometimes tricky since people at times get excited about sharing something (no different then us regular folks when we tell someone about something) and I am not so sure that it just seems like their full of themselves. Hell I do that all the time half joking but in order to do big stuff you have to have big confidence and that is hard sometimes not to show up as big head.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:09 am 
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Looks like we are in agreement with DZ's skill at playing, personally I would like to see him in a band large or small contributing to that music. Lets say something like what Frank did with George Duke on feel, or JLP's King kong, or what ever, maybe like Eric Clapton did with Blind Faith, Or Jack Bruce did with chungas revenge, just something other than strictly FZ's music, preferably a jazz combo, he might just sound brilliant with Return to Forever.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:29 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Looks like we are in agreement with DZ's skill at playing, personally I would like to see him in a band large or small contributing to that music. Lets say something like what Frank did with George Duke on feel, or JLP's King kong, or what ever, maybe like Eric Clapton did with Blind Faith, Or Jack Bruce did with chungas revenge, just something other than strictly FZ's music, preferably a jazz combo, he might just sound brilliant with Return to Forever.

I agree. He doesn't seem driven to compose, which I think is an element most good composers have. I used to feel the same way about Jeff Beck; why not be the hot-shit side man and leave the songwriting to someone with those kind of chops.

I do find Dweezil to be arrogant at times. Particularly the way he's handled the cover bands issue over the years, and his irritation when talking about the invisible 2008 downloads. But that's ok, to me anyway. He can be a total prick if he wants, and I'd still love his playing, which has improved tremendously since 2006. Lots of guys are arrogant but talented as hell.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:06 pm 
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He did do that spot with Alice Cooper recently showing he's more than just competent with other people's music.

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 Post subject: Re: dweezil zappa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:16 pm 
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ok, so dweezil is not the great composer his dad was. so what?

I think we should give dweezil a break. not one of us can even begin to imagine what it's like to be the son (or daughter) of someone like frank zappa.

I have to admit that I haven't bought any of the zappa plays zappa-cds or dvds, but I still think dweezil is doing a great job in keeping frank zappa's legacy alive*.

being the son of frank and still have the courage to embark on such a venture is impressive and worth all the encouragement it can get.

*I saw zpz in philadelphia 2006, and it was great.

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 Post subject: Re: dweezil zappa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:11 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
ok, so dweezil is not the great composer his dad was. so what?

I think we should give dweezil a break. not one of us can even begin to imagine what it's like to be the son (or daughter) of someone like frank zappa.

I have to admit that I haven't bought any of the zappa plays zappa-cds or dvds, but I still think dweezil is doing a great job in keeping frank zappa's legacy alive*.

being the son of frank and still have the courage to embark on such a venture is impressive and worth all the encouragement it can get.

*I saw zpz in philadelphia 2006, and it was great.

Agreed. Dweezil has brought himself back into guitar/rock music relevance with ZPZ. Before ZPZ you might have said that he had retired somewhat. Being a serious musician and a Hollywood B-list celebrity always seemed to be competing for Dweezil's attention. At the same time his guitar chops were always top-notch. Impossible to compete with his father artistically, but would like him to to just go off and try to be his own guy. Can't think of too many (if any) offspring of genius who have exceeded the father but would like to see DZ say "fuck it" and just tear the roof off on his own terms. BTW, I'm thinking of going to see Jason Bonham's Led Zeppelin Experience in a couple months


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:27 pm 
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I thought I read some where on Dweezil Zappa World that Dweezil was working on some new solo stuff.
I know he was thinking of adding some of his music to the line up as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:36 pm 
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I think it's insane for anyone to wish for Dweezil to actually stop playing FZ's music and hence effectively end Zappa Plays Zappa. I definitely don't think they've run their course. Sure, ZPZ could've tackled more of the '80s catalogue, etc. (and hopefully they will soon), since their setlists of the past year or two weren't as challenging as compared to their setlists of the first couple of years. But wanting DZ to stop playing FZ's music live? I don't think so. I mean, who the hell else is going to lead an official representation of FZ's music live, let alone pull it off?! And to be perfectly honest, a DZ solo tour wouldn't draw very well (we're talking a couple of hundred fans per night, tops) since his solo albums haven't sold that well for a variety a reasons and not necessarily because they aren't good. Personally, I don't dig any pre-2000 DZ or Z material. But his two most recent releases, Automatic and Go With What You Know are good albums. And this is partly because Dweezil has worked extremely hard at learning several different guitar techniques (sweep, economy and hybrid picking, etc.) that are crucial to properly executing FZ's music on guitar, not to mention developing his own distinctive style, as opposed to his outdated '80s/'90s Eddie Van Halen technique...but also because I believe he's vastly improved as a songwriter. And as far as I know, he's planning to at least make a few more albums of new music in the future, even if he doesn't tour them because of commercial reasons beyond his control. Lastly, every one of us has faults and Dweezil is no different. Yes, he comes off as arrogant sometimes when it comes to dealing with FZ cover band issues, etc. But so what? We all have things in our lives that we feel more strongly about than others (beliefs, morals, etc.). We ALL slip from time to time...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:31 am 
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Glad you guys don't mind when someone is arrogant, but to me it's about the least attractive trait there is. Of course it could be born from insecurity, but it put me straight off Yngwie Malmsteen and people like that. Such a character trait seeps into playing. It's like listening to someone saying "Yeah you know I'm fuckin' awesome, I picked up two chicks last night with this lick and it bought me a Ferrari last year".

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 am 
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BBP wrote:
Did I ever tell ya I tried to study the Inca Roads Guacamole Queen lick backwards?

Ha! I'd like to hear that!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:41 am 
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BBP wrote:
Glad you guys don't mind when someone is arrogant, but to me it's about the least attractive trait there is. Of course it could be born from insecurity, but it put me straight off Yngwie Malmsteen and people like that. Such a character trait seeps into playing. It's like listening to someone saying "Yeah you know I'm fuckin' awesome, I picked up two chicks last night with this lick and it bought me a Ferrari last year".



No offense Bonny but I still think you are confusing the confidence necassary to be very skilled with arrogance, I know its a fine line, but as Walter Brennen would say on "The Real McCoys"..."it aint bragg, just fact".


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:16 am 
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Plook wrote:
BBP wrote:
Glad you guys don't mind when someone is arrogant, but to me it's about the least attractive trait there is. Of course it could be born from insecurity, but it put me straight off Yngwie Malmsteen and people like that. Such a character trait seeps into playing. It's like listening to someone saying "Yeah you know I'm fuckin' awesome, I picked up two chicks last night with this lick and it bought me a Ferrari last year".



No offense Bonny but I still think you are confusing the confidence necassary to be very skilled with arrogance, I know its a fine line, but as Walter Brennen would say on "The Real McCoys"..."it aint bragg, just fact".


Don't worry, I'm not. Just like you can play a song happily or sad or woeful if you put the nuances different, you can also sound arrogant, angry, annoyed, bored or homesick.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:40 am 
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I agree with Bonny, I find arrogance in a musician only acceptable in a drummer, Buddy Rich comes to mind, he was the best and arrogant, but... I saw him at a small club after a set and he was cocky but very charming at the same time.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:53 am 
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BBP wrote:
Glad you guys don't mind when someone is arrogant, but to me it's about the least attractive trait there is. Of course it could be born from insecurity, but it put me straight off Yngwie Malmsteen and people like that. Such a character trait seeps into playing. It's like listening to someone saying "Yeah you know I'm fuckin' awesome, I picked up two chicks last night with this lick and it bought me a Ferrari last year".

:) Yngwie was so full of himself that it was humurous. At least from a distance. I went to one of those G3 shows with Satriani, Vai, and Yngwie and the Yngwie T-shirts they were selling at the merch stand said "YNGWIE WHO?" on the front and "YNGWIE FUCKING MALMSTEEN, THAT"S WHO!" on the back. Kinda funny. No, I didn't buy the shirt.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:08 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
I think it's insane for anyone to wish for Dweezil to actually stop playing FZ's music and hence effectively end Zappa Plays Zappa. I definitely don't think they've run their course. Sure, ZPZ could've tackled more of the '80s catalogue, etc. (and hopefully they will soon), since their setlists of the past year or two weren't as challenging as compared to their setlists of the first couple of years. But wanting DZ to stop playing FZ's music live? I don't think so. I mean, who the hell else is going to lead an official representation of FZ's music live, let alone pull it off?! And to be perfectly honest, a DZ solo tour wouldn't draw very well (we're talking a couple of hundred fans per night, tops) since his solo albums haven't sold that well for a variety a reasons and not necessarily because they aren't good. Personally, I don't dig any pre-2000 DZ or Z material. But his two most recent releases, Automatic and Go With What You Know are good albums. And this is partly because Dweezil has worked extremely hard at learning several different guitar techniques (sweep, economy and hybrid picking, etc.) that are crucial to properly executing FZ's music on guitar, not to mention developing his own distinctive style, as opposed to his outdated '80s/'90s Eddie Van Halen technique...but also because I believe he's vastly improved as a songwriter. And as far as I know, he's planning to at least make a few more albums of new music in the future, even if he doesn't tour them because of commercial reasons beyond his control. Lastly, every one of us has faults and Dweezil is no different. Yes, he comes off as arrogant sometimes when it comes to dealing with FZ cover band issues, etc. But so what? We all have things in our lives that we feel more strongly about than others (beliefs, morals, etc.). We ALL slip from time to time...

I don't necessarily want DZ to disband ZPZ just would like him to do something else, too. I've expressed my waning interest in ZPZ on another thread and had some suggestions on how to spice things up. To put it bluntly, my biggest problem with ZPZ nowadays is Ben Thomas. I thought he might grow on me but he hasn't. He's the fly in the soup. I know the soup is really good, but please bring me another bowl without the fly in it. Because of that it's kinda hard to get excited about ZPZ anymore, fine company notwithstanding.


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