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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:28 pm 
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well said Ringo :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:32 am 
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I purchased a professional turntable a few years ago to play 78rpm records I had recently aquired, and to play the Zappa vinyl records that were transferred to CD with a bad remix (We're Only In it For The Money).

My point is that no matter how much technology changes, you can still do it the old fashioned way. I have LPs and CDs. I ripped some Zappa to my laptop. All of it is fine in the proper setting. Some of my LPs I dumped on eBay because I don't listen to them, or, they are available as a CD (compact disc). I have never used Itunes nor downloaded any music from the internet other than ripping MP3s from YouTube.

Remember that quote from Bongo Fury "somebody is going to try and sell you something you shouldn't ought to buy".

I live by it every day.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:28 pm 
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penguini wrote:
...
Now let's take the ZFT for example. Let's say its only viable to manufacture CD's of the latest releases in batches of 5000. Personally I doubt they sell 5000 units per album releases but that's another story. Sure they can do smaller amounts but the price per unit sky rockets. ...


I'm pretty sure they sell more than that ... because it covers a lot of this world, not just Los Angeles and the 10 people that frequent this board!

If they were only doing 5k, even Dweezil would not be on the road anymore at all, because there would not be enough funds to cover it, and I'm not sure that the shows themselves are even paying for themselves and turning a good enough profit ... to make it worth while for everyone. I almost ... ALMOST ... think that most of the musicians involved are doing so for the credibility, as they know that they will never have any issues with getting a job in music, because if there is anything about them ... they know music and how to play it! Of that there is no doubt whatsoever and if I owned a symphony, I probably would hire all of them the day the tour ended!

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The younger generation have no idea what it means to collect a physical version of an album. They just know the music in a digital downloadable file. Personally I have no issue with this. Music is what matters not some package. I know you guys like to collect stuff but really, ask yourselves, is it really that important?
...


I agree on this, but am not sure that music is as important today as it was in your day and mine. We learned about "music" and a "band" a lot more than most of the kids today because of the albums. Today's generation, I seriously believe, will be totally fractured and spread out and not be able to work together and cause a lot of hassles because they really have no concensus, or understanding of what "music" is, other than the songs they got ... and the media blitz for the top ten. We HAD an alternative that most of these kids do not have today, and even many boards that talk about jazz or progressive crap, are so enfatuated with their asses and their lack of understanding of music (they don't care, or give a shit anyway!), that it will render what we call "music" worthless and places like this board will become just another dinosaur for old foggies still bitching about Gail and LP's!

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I think the Lp is a "clunky" way to enjoy music,....but I still like them.By the way it costs $1000 to press up 500 CDs(with a single fold booklet).....so you CAN make a profit even pressing that few and charging $10 each(or less). So,the cost of pressing is NOT a major concern to labels.....the more you press the LESS they cost.But you don't have to press up millions to make a profit on 'em. Not to say all the care put into the pre-production art and how fancy they look doesn't add up too. But.....
...


In 1977 I produced an LP, pressed 1000 copies and it cost me $1692.00 at Household Finance to get it done ... you should have seen their faces when I said I was going to produce an LP!

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I feel that the "younger generation" see the music as digital downloads only because they don't want to pay for anything at all. They want it all for free ,and right now. They also don't give a crap if anyone gets paid for their art or music. Plus ,sadly, according to a whole bunch of interviews I've read with ,I'd say, stupid indie artists, most of the bands don't care right now either. They say,"... screw the companies,..we don't need them."
...


This also has to do with the market that is bringing the stuff out. I prefer the open end of things and let the bands do their own thing. The problem is that these will all get blown out by the media blitz and glut that makes Lady Gugu seem like a nice bed partner, or fantasy. I prefer Madonna myself!

When we were kids, and we were buying the singles, we didn't have any more money (relatively speaking) than any of them today ... we bought what we could and you and I were stupid heads if we didn't get All Along the Watchtower and Me and Bobbi McGee or Light MY Fire or 25 or 6 to 4. I was already, at the time, well weaned on classical music (house had over 3k LP's of classical music), and for me the whole album was more important than the single ... but you know how many people I talk to -- even in here -- that have any idea what that means? ... think Frank saying I want to do serious music, and the next fuckhead comes up and says ... play your guitar when he is wanting to conduct and do something else with the music! ... and that same fan scream ... "rock'n'roll"!

Quote:
...the young generation wants it all for free. But they'll get screwed in the end too. ...


{minor sopa box with :smoke: }

And who the heck do you think you are to be saying that you can play Jesus and not let those kids learn their own lessons when they are not interested in your comments?

{ :roll: :smurf: :wink: }

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Because I know when I hear someone say they downloaded a song,90% of the time it wasn't paid for. So,by then ZFT will be (at worst)sold back by a desperate Zappa Family to Warner Brothers ,....or(even worse) NOT sold to anyone and just kept in a vault of the Family for spite. Either way ,the fans lose,...and I bet the Big Companies WILL WIN.
...


Call me old fashioned. I have yet to buy a single mp3 anywhere even from an artist's website ... I really miss the "album covers" and all the art ...

Quote:
... Big Business will just say that you sold only 10,000 downloads of _______ product,when you really moved 100,000,000. How can you prove more sold? That is the ultimate goal.
...


Sooner or later this is gonna crack and someone is gonna get busted big ... and I'm thinking a major movie studio or a major music company or a Comcast ... due to creative accounting. And I hope to see it ... because that day, this corporate this and that will finally stop ... but we allow the NFL, MLB and the NBA to hide their finances and no judge is gonna say ... I want to see the books ... because the day that happens the IRS will indict everyone in the room! And that judge will probably get a bullet in his head, I'm willing to bet!

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Destroy the little guys,and fuck the artists. It'll make maximizing profits easy,....and, hell, you can pump any shit out there once you own the whole service. It doesn't have to have a picture,no liner notes,maybe not even any real musicians? It's the perfect shill.
...


You have to stop the bitching, though. You and I need to be a part of the solution, not a part of the bitching. This is important. I want the art to succeed and if it does, we all win. And we can do this better for doing it by example and make sure that it works and gets better.

In the true spirit of creativity, we just have, in the end? ... the art of it all ... the cup is NOT half empty ... it's half full and the steam smells good!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:50 pm 
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I'm pretty tired of looking at all the CDs that I never listen to anymore. I have Amazon, Emusic and iTunes mp3s filling my computer and an external harddrive. I don't even listen to 99% of my CDs because I can not be bothered to insert them into the computer, rip them to mp3 and then put them back on the shelf. Kinda crazy, but true. Those cds used to be so important to me, too. Funny to think how little they must mean in reality. It's probably been a decade since I really looked at them. Now, I wish I had ripped them and sold them when they were still worth something.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:38 am 
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Why don't you just listen to them with an ordinary CD-player just like the "old" days? I think ripping CDs to inferior mp3 is a stupid idea. That is just like having audiophile vinyl pressings back then and instead listening to inferior audio cassette copies.

Th.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:19 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Why don't you just listen to them with an ordinary CD-player just like the "old" days? I think ripping CDs to inferior mp3 is a stupid idea. That is just like having audiophile vinyl pressings back then and instead listening to inferior audio cassette copies.

Th.

Well said. I have tons of CDs. They don't put up that much space, and I listen to them regularly. I have two average CD players, and the sound quality is so much better than a rip. I can understand the idea of ripped files on a portable device (where the fact that you only carry 10% of the file around is harder to notice with all the background noises), but it is sad to see people "listening" to ripped music on their laptop in a quality much inferior to an average cassette copy of an LP 30 years ago.

I think actually it is a bit weird when so much attention is paid to make picture quality better (with Blue Ray, which I embrace totally), that sound per se is considered more and more irrelevant per se.

The only good thing about the drop in income generated from record sales is that artists are forced out on the road. You (still) can't rip a concert experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:25 am 
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HJ wrote:
...You (still) can't rip a concert experience.

No...but, you can have fun getting ripped at a concert!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:10 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
HJ wrote:
...You (still) can't rip a concert experience.

No...but, you can have fun getting ripped at a concert!

Agreed........ 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:59 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
HJ wrote:
...You (still) can't rip a concert experience.

No...but, you can have fun getting ripped at a concert!

Yeah, but the big names sell out in no time irrespective. So the demand is there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:14 am 
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zoinks wrote:
I'm pretty tired of looking at all the CDs that I never listen to anymore.

I can see that that's a pretty unrewarding way of spending the evening... Me, I like looking at my CDs, and I certainly think CD is the best medium for music, yet. Compact Disc is the new vinyl - it's hip! Like musk!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Ha, I don't actually *look* at them. They are on shelves collecting dust. I just sort of see them when I enter the room, when I first wake up, etc.

I am perfectly happy with VBR mp3s. I don't even have a CD player anymore. My wife's dad gave me a Teac set and I never bothered to hook it up. I simply don't care. Taking out 1-5 cd's at a time to load into a player? No thank you. I don't even like to listen to music really unless I am travelling or in a party context and then I don't get to listen to anything I really want to pay attention to, anyway. Either way it's an iPod situation, either with headphones or in the Bose dock. Sometimes, if I'm working, I'll play some jazz through my iTunes.

I understand appreciation for analog recording vs. digital, especially if you're comparing something like Elvis's Sun recordings to something like Frank Zappa's early 80s studio sterility. I'll never understand why seasoned musicians actually liked that 80s dry sound so much. Just because it was new? Anyway, that I understand, but I don't understand why people are so taken with vinyl. It's fake, anyway. That warm sound is not really actually how the music sounds. It's a bunch of studio tricks to get a particular sort of totally unrealistic sound. I realize it has more of the audio wave since it's obviously not sampled into bits, but I'm sure something gets altered or lost in the process of sticking a freaking needle into freaking vinyl. It's a destructive process for one thing and for another it's pretty archaic if you think about it. Sticking sound into grooves on a plate to be revealed by a pointy object attached to wires and speakers? I'd like to compare vinyl to a master myself to compare, but until then I can remember what a pain in the ass keeping records clean was. And, to be honest, there was just always something about vinyl's sound I didn't like. I used to work at a college radio station with good turntables and headphones and monitors, so I have heard vinyl at it's best, I think. There always seemed to be something either in the way or missing. I grew up on cassettes, though, so maybe it was the hiss. I don't know how to explain it because it was barely perceptible, but it was about as barely perceptible as when people were complaining about CDs and I remember listening and thinking, "yes, something is missing!" (probably the hiss again). But, the difference between a good VBR mp3 played on an iPod through good headphones vs. a CD on a sony walkman? No contest, the mp3s sound better. Mp3s through a Bose dock vs. a boombox? No contest: mp3s win again.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:49 pm 
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I always sniff the dust off my CD covers while listening to the muzik (Fuck those U.S.-style wraparound foils with the artist and title on them, as they keep sticking to my nose. ) MP3 can carry much less dust than a decent jewel case or even vinyl (It has nothing to do with the bitrate, although it helps) -- therefore I despise it.
:)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:39 am 
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zoinks wrote:
I realize it has more of the audio wave since it's obviously not sampled into bits, but I'm sure something gets altered or lost in the process of sticking a freaking needle into freaking vinyl. It's a destructive process for one thing and for another it's pretty archaic if you think about it. Sticking sound into grooves on a plate to be revealed by a pointy object attached to wires and speakers?


You can do better now, ELP is manufacturing this turnable who is reading your precious LP's with a laser.
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Of course, it's very expensive.
Maybe we could imagine something better with the same idea, smaller more robust discs, maybe with video, all analog.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:19 am 
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Wow, I didn't know Emerson, Lake & Palmer were in the tech industry! Nice!!! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Wow, I didn't know Emerson, Lake & Palmer were in the tech industry! Nice!!! :mrgreen:
LOL

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:36 pm 
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ZackGlickman wrote:
You can do better now, ELP is manufacturing this turnable who is reading your precious LP's with a laser.
Image

Of course, it's very expensive.
Maybe we could imagine something better with the same idea, smaller more robust discs, maybe with video, all analog.

It's a neat idea, but I'd be curious to know how that thing sounds from an audiophile perspective. I have a feeling it wouldn't measure up against the standard stylus-to-groove contact.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:40 pm 
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And only $10,000!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:03 am 
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and it came out long ago in 1997. And it still has to convert digital to analog, only benefit is no wear on lp.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:10 am 
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Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
and it came out long ago in 1997.
Cool 14 years after CD player :| :? :mrgreen: he he :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:20 am 
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Only $650,000.00 USD

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:55 pm 
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New model from 2010:

http://www.elpj.com/main.html

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:05 pm 
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just plain doug wrote:
And only $10,000!


Or, jpd's Summer Movie Budget.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:32 am 
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ZackGlickman wrote:
New model from 2010:

http://www.elpj.com/main.html

I like the fact that there is no digitization..... 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:18 pm 
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ZackGlickman wrote:
You can do better now, ELP is manufacturing this turnable who is reading your precious LP's with a laser.
Image

Of course, it's very expensive.
Maybe we could imagine something better with the same idea, smaller more robust discs, maybe with video, all analog.


That would be nice ... those needles eating up the vinyl is not fun! And they do wear the vinyl down!

The only bad thing? That price is bizarre and off the wall ... and I bet that if we add the electronics inside that thing, that in the end, that thing still is not worth $500 bux ... those people need to be out of business ... and quick!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 am 
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Vinyl has its place, CDs have theirs. I love both analog & digital for different reasons and don't really consider one to be better than the other, just different.

The medium only sounds as good as the playback system anyway. The wife has a different taste in music so my recreational listening is mostly done with headphones these days. 4 different brands of reference monitors down in the studio but mostly use them for recording & mixing.

Music will probably stay digitized in the future but the delivery may change again. Just like they said about vinyl, some say CDs are on their way out and we'll be buying flashdrive & memory card albums next. Maybe next year, we buy an album and they implant a 24 track mix directly into our brain. Maybe next year there won't be anything released that's even worth buying. Close to that now with all the commercial swill on the air.

Laser on vinyl. Interesting. Wonder how that ELP player sounds on a good playback system.


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