Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:59 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
"It would have been impossible to survive this long if it hadn't been for Herb Cohen."

Frank Zappa, Mother's Day, 1974

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:21 pm
Posts: 467
Didn't Frank take Herb to court at some point?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5908
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
All good things come to an end.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 19289
Location: Somewhere in time
What year did they stop working together?

:smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
Plook wrote:
What year did they stop working together?

1976 - that's why Zoot Allures is on the ordinary Warner label and not Discreet. Bat Chain Puller was recorded earlier that year and got caught up in the tangle. Van Vliet probably refers to the quarrel between Zappa and Cohen on Tropical Hot Dog Night from Shiny Beast: "Like two flamingos in a fruit fight..."

My UK copy of ZINY from 1977 with Punky's Whips has a little note in the gatefold about the new management, and then: "Don't bother to send any stuff to the old adress... Herbie doesn't work for us anymore."

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 4726
Location: in deepest, darkest Germany
I always thought it was down to "creative" book-keeping on Herbie's part.

_________________
"I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: An air base in Central Europe
...and going on vacation with Mo at the firm's expense one too many times.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3525
Unaware to Frank, Cohen booked the studio time for Bat Chain Puller on Zappa's dime. That's why the ZFT owns the masters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
brainpang wrote:
Unaware to Frank, Cohen booked the studio time for Bat Chain Puller on Zappa's dime. That's why the ZFT owns the masters.

In his book, John French recalls a working relationship between Van Vliet, Zappa and Cohen, with Zappa in the studio much of the time and Cohen dropping in now and then to check the progress. According to French, Cohen was frustrated with the slow recording process, because he was used to Zappa's efficiency. Perhaps he was also nervous because he knew he was spending Frank's money without his consent, as you say.

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3525
Dark Clothes wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Unaware to Frank, Cohen booked the studio time for Bat Chain Puller on Zappa's dime. That's why the ZFT owns the masters.

In his book, John French recalls a working relationship between Van Vliet, Zappa and Cohen, with Zappa in the studio much of the time and Cohen dropping in now and then to check the progress. According to French, Cohen was frustrated with the slow recording process, because he was used to Zappa's efficiency. Perhaps he was also nervous because he knew he was spending Frank's money without his consent, as you say.


I can find no mention of Frank in the Drumbo book regarding the BCP recordings. Regardless, I have been hearing about the $ dispute for 30 years. Who knows, maybe DVV did FZ an unwitting favor, saved him huge bucks in the long run by throwing light upon HCs creative finances. Don't let us down Gail, by DECEMBER, please! Will be interesting to see what mix it is. The boot floating around was a quickie by McNabb and maybe Don. Denny Walley did one much later (also found a bizarro 80s style mix mix on the master tape that French pegged as Ahmet's work in the book).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Herb Cohen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
brainpang wrote:
I can find no mention of Frank in the Drumbo book regarding the BCP recordings.

You're right, my bad. I guess I was superimposing memories from Trout Mask Replica and Bongo Fury onto the BCP sessions. The thing about Herbie's frustration with Don's slow work is on page 661, by the way.

Edit: Even though French doesn't say anything about Zappa being in the studio during the recording sessions, it's clear from his book that he gives much credit to Frank for getting the project started. You get the impression that there was a lot of discussion and business going on between Frank, Herb and Don from the Bongo Fury tour and right up until BCP was stalled. I'll give some examples:

611ff - Bongo Fury tour.
613 - Cohen offers French job with Beefheart.
615 - Zappa sits in at Beefheart rehearsal, helps Don fire bass player.
623-624 - "Herb Says Tour": "I had no hesitancy in saying yes as long the money was right. Herb said that my services would be needed as musical director and that I would report to him on the progress of the band etc. Then, he announced that upon returning, there would be an album recorded. Don already knew about this and was gathering material. [...] I would like to point out at this time that I believe all this was Zappa's doing. He wished his friend well and was obviously pulling many strings to make everything work."
630 - Don plays at Royce Hall concert - French more impressed by Bozzio.
834-842 - Bat Chain Puller album overview. French credits Don Van Vliet and Frank Zappa as producers. And, finally, he says that Frank nixed "Candle Mambo", because he felt that it was stylistically out of place on the album.

All this indicates that Frank had an active part in the making of BCP (as well as its suppression), although Cohen may have made some independent moves that contributed to their falling out.

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group