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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Fritzappa wrote:
This somehow begs the question...if you really dislike ZPZ, can you at least support them for allowing a larger fanbase for Zappa music?.


From my not insignificant perspective, Dweezil has deterred more people from checking out Zappa than drawn them in. The difference between, say, Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy when performed by Dweezil Zappa and the same song performed by Frank is HUGE.
Particularly guitar solos.
See, the least important thing in music is the notes. Dweezil has nothing BUT the notes. Music is intangible, invisible, spontaneous, magic. Dweezil is trying to replicate someone else's essence. Can't be done, really. And the translation from original visionary to copy cat offers barely a hint of the original's passion. He makes Zappa sound bad.

I'd have to say that Dweezil fans are easily impressed. It's like, Oh boy, he's copying Zappa! In other words, he's the exact opposite of his father. He goes nowhere uncharted.


Last edited by downer mydnyte on Tue May 24, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Fritzappa wrote:
I find it interesting that there is a lot of complaining about ZPZ here, yet I personally have never had the privilege of seeing Frank live (I was born in 89).

I'm grateful of the ZPZ band, and I'm also glad I gave them a chance in 2010 (saw them once in AC, and once in Philly). If it weren't for seeing them I wouldn't be as big as a Zappa fan as I am now. This somehow begs the question...if you really dislike ZPZ, can you at least support them for allowing a larger fanbase for Zappa music?...Or is it wrong for more fans to manifest; Would you rather in 100 years no one know who Zappa is? 95% of the people I know in my age group don't even know who he is, and thats now. The present day. At least ZPZ can expose some of the younger generation to the music. If you're not going to go for some stupid petty reason, at least refer someone younger you know to see the show so that the music can live on.



Your right, I'm not sure what these people are thinking..well critique of any music is fine, some of the attacks seem based on some self absorbed belief that they are the ultimate judges of what the ZFT should do or not do...I don't get it.

:smoke:


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Fritzappa wrote:
I find it interesting that there is a lot of complaining about ZPZ here,.



Your right, I'm not sure what these people are thinking.

:smoke:


I think I explained it pretty well in my post above you, Plook. Now you know what some of us are thinking.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:44 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Plook wrote:
Fritzappa wrote:
I find it interesting that there is a lot of complaining about ZPZ here,.



Your right, I'm not sure what these people are thinking.

:smoke:


I think I explained it pretty well in my post above you, Plook. Now you know what some of us are thinking.



Again you are mistaken on so many levels I am not sure where to begin, yes initially ZPZ was performing a straight copy of FZ performances, and that was what was intended the first time or two out. But since then they have really grown and I have an recorded example of the one song you called out Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy from New Years eve 2009 in San Fransisco and he was off script and awesome, I would even venture to say that that performance of that song (by the entire band) was the best by any band including any of his fathers. I could site many examples in the last 4 years were the band while basing their performance on a previously performance of that song have started to add their "twist" to it, but you will know what I am talking about if you go to a show...enjoy don't hate.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Hell, Plook, I don't waste energy hating something as innocent as boring, derivative, nostalgia music. I'm just a big Frank Zappa fan so I tend to notice others's attempts at recreating it. I've listened closely to recent Dweezil. He doesn't have it. He doesn't hit the spot for me. I think he's got no original guitar voice at all.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:36 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:

From my not insignificant perspective, Dweezil has deterred more people from checking out Zappa than drawn them in.


What I meant was Dweezil is drawing in a younger audience. Those who are deterred away tend to be older and will be gone (many many years from now) when theres nothing but us young folk to carry on the music.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:51 pm 
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Fritzappa wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:

From my not insignificant perspective, Dweezil has deterred more people from checking out Zappa than drawn them in.


What I meant was Dweezil is drawing in a younger audience. Those who are deterred away tend to be older and will be gone (many many years from now) when theres nothing but us young folk to carry on the music.

Your right, Fritz. Dweezil has succeeded in exposing FZ to a younger audience (you're proof). It's older guys like me who actually saw Frank and have been listening to the music since 1976 that tend to be more critical and it's not really fair. ZPZ is a tribute band (though some people fervently and mysteriously deny this) and a really good one at that. I tend to agree with Downer that Dweezil doesn't really have an original lead guitar voice especially in the context of ZPZ. He's always trying to channel his father (playing in a similar style, sometimes playing passages note-for-note) but that's what he should be doing because he's playing in a TRIBUTE BAND. Dweezil has great technique as a guitarist but he doesn't really have anything original to say on the instrument. Very few people do. I've really enjoyed ZPZ and I'm looking forward to taking my 14 year old son to see them this fall. What's really great about ZPZ is seeing a great rock band playing a great composers music accurately and powerfully. As I've said before, I'd enjoy the vocal tunes more if Nappy, Ray, Ike or (fill in the blank) were in the vocal chair but really what more could anyone want at this point.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:50 pm 
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For the record: ZPZ is in many ways more enjoyable than the Zappa band that I saw in Drammenshallen on the spring tour of 1980, albeit without the mighty guitar excursions - Frank's stairways to heaven. I got more of a kick from hearing Dweezil playing The Gumbo Variations in November than I don't wanna get drafted by Logeman & co in May 1980.

It would be foolish to say that ZPZ beats the other Zappa band I heard, in 1988, but the vibe of Dweezil's group is undeniably more jovial. And they're pretty good musicians, you know...

If only they could get down to serious business and perform the entire Sinister Footwear!

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:30 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
… From my not insignificant perspective, Dweezil has deterred more people from checking out Zappa than drawn them in. The difference between, say, Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy when performed by Dweezil Zappa and the same song performed by Frank is HUGE.
Particularly guitar solos.
See, the least important thing in music is the notes. Dweezil has nothing BUT the notes. Music is intangible, invisible, spontaneous, magic. Dweezil is trying to replicate someone else's essence. Can't be done, really. And the translation from original visionary to copy cat offers barely a hint of the original's passion. He makes Zappa sound bad.

I'd have to say that Dweezil fans are easily impressed. It's like, Oh boy, he's copying Zappa! In other words, he's the exact opposite of his father. He goes nowhere uncharted.


This is exactly my opinion.

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:00 am 
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I gave up arguing about music when I was around 25. I've found that I enjoy a much wider variety and quality of musical forms now that I'm not worried about who is better than whom, who's more "genuine" than whom, what genres are acceptable to which subcultures, etc.

Some of you may wish to try it. You may find yourselves enjoying life a bit more.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:32 am 
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blsabob23 wrote:
I gave up arguing about music when I was around 25. I've found that I enjoy a much wider variety and quality of musical forms now that I'm not worried about who is better than whom, who's more "genuine" than whom, what genres are acceptable to which subcultures, etc.

Some of you may wish to try it. You may find yourselves enjoying life a bit more.



Thats what i'm talkin about...it's all good in the right portions... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:11 am 
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blsabob23 wrote:
I gave up arguing about music when I was around 25. I've found that I enjoy a much wider variety and quality of musical forms now that I'm not worried about who is better than whom, who's more "genuine" than whom, what genres are acceptable to which subcultures, etc.


For the record, I'm not arguing about music. I'm stating my opinions. I am not trying to change anyone's mind.

As for you not caring whether or not an artistic performance is genuine- well, that doesn't surprise me.

Quote:
I'm not worried about who is better than whom

No musical standards at all, eh?


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:36 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
blsabob23 wrote:
I gave up arguing about music when I was around 25. I've found that I enjoy a much wider variety and quality of musical forms now that I'm not worried about who is better than whom, who's more "genuine" than whom, what genres are acceptable to which subcultures, etc.


For the record, I'm not arguing about music. I'm stating my opinions. I am not trying to change anyone's mind.

As for you not caring whether or not an artistic performance is genuine- well, that doesn't surprise me.

Quote:
I'm not worried about who is better than whom

No musical standards at all, eh?



A bit sensitive, eh?

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:18 pm 
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blsabob23 wrote:
A bit sensitive, eh?

Not particularly.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:30 am 
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If the culture and music industry wasn't so severely retarded, Mike Keneally would be playing 3000 seat theaters around the country. He is one of the true geniuses to come out of FZ's bands. He is a great composer, as well as a fantastic musician.

It's great to be able to go out and hear Dweezil's skillful ensemble play Frank's music, but for a contemporary talent like Keneally to be playing in tiny clubs for 30 people is a crying shame. I mean, just consider the man's discography over the past 20 years. Album after album of brilliant music. Much of it highly accessible pop/rock, along with the complicated progressive stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:53 am 
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I've never heard him.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:19 am 
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Star Thrower wrote:
If the culture and music industry wasn't so severely retarded, Mike Keneally would be playing 3000 seat theaters around the country. He is one of the true geniuses to come out of FZ's bands. He is a great composer, as well as a fantastic musician.

It's great to be able to go out and hear Dweezil's skillful ensemble play Frank's music, but for a contemporary talent like Keneally to be playing in tiny clubs for 30 people is a crying shame. I mean, just consider the man's discography over the past 20 years. Album after album of brilliant music. Much of it highly accessible pop/rock, along with the complicated progressive stuff.

I really like Keneally and agree he's some kind of a genius but, man, even for a guy like me who's been listening to Zappa and other "outside" music for the last 35 years, I think his music is VERY inaccessible to the average music fan. Even his poppier stuff is really twisted and quirky plus most of his lyrics are indecipherable. I just think Keneally is one of those guys whose DNA just won't let him go anywhere near anything commercial or the mainstream. Adrian Belew, on the other hand, be it solo or with King Crimson, is progressive and quirky yet still potentially accessible to the average Joe or Jane. Then again, when I saw Adrian a couple years ago he was playing in a small nightclub in front of maybe 50 people.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:30 am 
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Here's a couple of tunes from the Dancing album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsDquZ5_kE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOH20P1 ... re=related

This one is a very complicated, mostly instrumental piece from the Sluggo CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcbXZ_H ... re=related


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:21 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Star Thrower wrote:
If the culture and music industry wasn't so severely retarded, Mike Keneally would be playing 3000 seat theaters around the country. He is one of the true geniuses to come out of FZ's bands. He is a great composer, as well as a fantastic musician.

It's great to be able to go out and hear Dweezil's skillful ensemble play Frank's music, but for a contemporary talent like Keneally to be playing in tiny clubs for 30 people is a crying shame. I mean, just consider the man's discography over the past 20 years. Album after album of brilliant music. Much of it highly accessible pop/rock, along with the complicated progressive stuff.

I really like Keneally and agree he's some kind of a genius but, man, even for a guy like me who's been listening to Zappa and other "outside" music for the last 35 years, I think his music is VERY inaccessible to the average music fan. Even his poppier stuff is really twisted and quirky plus most of his lyrics are indecipherable. I just think Keneally is one of those guys whose DNA just won't let him go anywhere near anything commercial or the mainstream. Adrian Belew, on the other hand, be it solo or with King Crimson, is progressive and quirky yet still potentially accessible to the average Joe or Jane. Then again, when I saw Adrian a couple years ago he was playing in a small nightclub in front of maybe 50 people.


Keneally can do whatever he wants, but why try to be more commercial when there's no chance in hell of getting on the radio anyway? It's a different world today with the media monopolies only interested in brand names and celebrity. If the music was promoted it would sell. As it stands, very talented people like Keneally and Belew are up against hundreds of thousands of average talents cluttering up sites like CD Baby trying to sell their music.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Star Thrower wrote:
Here's a couple of tunes from the Dancing album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsDquZ5_kE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOH20P1 ... re=related

This one is a very complicated, mostly instrumental piece from the Sluggo CD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcbXZ_H ... re=related



That first song while it starts out with a heavy FZ influence sounds almost just like XTC from the Big Express era once the lyrics start...do we know if he was influenced by them at all?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:28 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Star Thrower wrote:
If the culture and music industry wasn't so severely retarded, Mike Keneally would be playing 3000 seat theaters around the country. He is one of the true geniuses to come out of FZ's bands. He is a great composer, as well as a fantastic musician.

It's great to be able to go out and hear Dweezil's skillful ensemble play Frank's music, but for a contemporary talent like Keneally to be playing in tiny clubs for 30 people is a crying shame. I mean, just consider the man's discography over the past 20 years. Album after album of brilliant music. Much of it highly accessible pop/rock, along with the complicated progressive stuff.

I really like Keneally and agree he's some kind of a genius but, man, even for a guy like me who's been listening to Zappa and other "outside" music for the last 35 years, I think his music is VERY inaccessible to the average music fan. Even his poppier stuff is really twisted and quirky plus most of his lyrics are indecipherable. I just think Keneally is one of those guys whose DNA just won't let him go anywhere near anything commercial or the mainstream. Adrian Belew, on the other hand, be it solo or with King Crimson, is progressive and quirky yet still potentially accessible to the average Joe or Jane. Then again, when I saw Adrian a couple years ago he was playing in a small nightclub in front of maybe 50 people.

51 people,I was there too! Belew was fantastic! I am getting tired of DZpZ being 2nd bill.It equils shorter Zappa Time! I just wanna see DZpZ last and longer,it equils more Zappa Time! Plus you walk out with Zappa in your ears!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Plook wrote:
That first song while it starts out with a heavy FZ influence sounds almost just like XTC from the Big Express era once the lyrics start...do we know if he was influenced by them at all?


Yeah, Keneally is a big fan of XTC. Andy Partridge is also a big Keneally fan. In fact, they are working together on an album.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:01 pm 
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I can hear why he's only playing to 30 people.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:08 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I can hear why he's only playing to 30 people.


Care to elaborate?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:17 pm 
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It's too original for a mainstream audience. He probably doesn't get much promotion. It's very interesting, well thought out music. I think it's good stuff. Thanks for pointing me in his direction. I would go see him.


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