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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:26 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
BlessedRelief18 wrote:
Its simply too advanced for some of you guys.


Right, clearly it comes down to the ability of handling complex patterns aurally. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with a differing opinion in taste, huh? :roll:

Devil's Advocate Here -
Is there a difference between taste and "handling". As with drinking, some people think being able to handle booze means that you maintain a sense of awareness, other think it means that you simply didn't puke! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:30 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
[Devil's Advocate Here -
Is there a difference between taste and "handling". As with drinking, some people think being able to handle booze means that you maintain a sense of awareness, other think it means that you simply didn't puke! :)


Interesting analogy but even with drinking, some may understand what goes into a heavier, richer beer but prefer the taste of the Pabst Blue Ribbon or what-have-you....

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:52 pm 
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BlessedRelief18 wrote:
Its simply too advanced for some of you guys. I really enjoy the timbral diversities and rhythmic complexities. There is logic behind all those insanely fast phrases; give it another listen!


It seems you're assuming we're troglodytes or something. If I have to work while listening to music then it's not for me. "Wow, that phrase was logical! And in 10/4!!!!! That's smartly done!"

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:36 pm 
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Cal, I had no idea you were a D + D fan! I haven't played in 20 years...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:49 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Cal, I had no idea you were a D + D fan! I haven't played in 20 years...
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A friend once invited me over to his house to play D&D. I had no idea what it was about. I found out that some of it involved play acting and wanted no part of it. So that was that.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:56 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
BlessedRelief18 wrote:
Its simply too advanced for some of you guys.


Right, clearly it comes down to the ability of handling complex patterns aurally. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with a differing opinion in taste, huh? :roll:

Don't be too hard on me. I've only been listening to/buying all of Frank's musical output since 1970. Give me a chance to grok it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:18 am 
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I can honestly say that I don't understand this record, but I like it anyway.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:52 am 
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Put it on while doing housework, don't listen, go about your affairs. Only then will it snake up your butt and turn you into a Zombie, worshipping at its altar.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:27 pm 
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from the other 'feeding the monkies at ma maison-thread:
Quote:
mg: do you rank your music in any kind of hierarchy? do you consider the rock and roll stuff inferior to the classical stuff?
fz: no.

mg: it's all the same?
fz: it's a different aspect of the same thing. I've got an imagination. so I earn a living by producing merchandisable manifestations of portions of my imagination.

mg: so you don't do one type of music in order to pay for another?
fz: no, I would probably do "baby take your teeth out" if nobody paid me. I mean, nobody did pay me. that particular song was concocted at a soundcheck at the place where this concert was taking place in frankfurt. we played at the alte opera in 1982, and that song came from that soundcheck.

dm: I'm still stuck on something you brought up about not ranking your compositions. if something like "n-lite" took ten years to do, and "baby take your teeth out" took 20 minutes, why should they be the same? it seems to me you've put more into one than the other, and therefore you might have an opinion of that effort yielding more than the 20-minute one.
fz: well, the function of both things is to entertain. the one that took ten years is probably way over budget in terms of how much bang for the buck you're going to get. the end of any piece is basically: you're decorating time. "baby take your teeth out" is a minute and ten seconds. okay, so it shouldn't have taken ten years. it should have taken much less, and it did, but if that minute and ten seconds amuses you, okay, fine. and then there are people who will never be able to sit through "n-lite"; it's 23 minutes long. they would rather have a minute and ten seconds of something that'll make them laugh. the point is that each piece, for what it is supposed to do, achieves a certain level of entertainment success.

dm: if you don't rank your pieces, what differentiation do you make between live work, synclavier work, and some of the work being done to fund this so called "more serious" music?
fz: well, if I had never done any rock and roll, I wouldn't have a synclavier. it's as simple as that. I mean, l earn my living by making rock and roll records. but I didn't set out to do rock and roll just so I could spend my sunset years frying my room with a high radiation source.

there you have it.* 8)

interview link 1992

*I've posted this one before...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:25 pm 
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fz, 1968 wrote:
Us: What is a Moog synthesizer?

Frank: A Moog synthesizer is a key board instrument... modify an existing sound with this instrument, or you can generate a tone electronically, shape it, repeat it, mix it... Mickey Dolenz has one.

Us: Electronic music is not melodic, as we understand the word.

Frank: Your concept of melodic is obviously based on a harmonically rhythmic tune. You should allow for the possibility that the word 'melody' can be used in other circumstances. The concept of melody should encompass more than just a series of notes played against a chord, or something that you can hum after you've heard it. Melody, if you want to really abstract it, can be any sequence of events that flows together as a melodic curve. If I want to compose a melody that consists of three hits on a garbage can lid, leading into a siren, leading into someone taking a carton full of Coke bottles and dropping it on the floor, so long as it's preplanned and follows a melodic curve, that's a melody.

It's just dealing with different sound material.

Schools don't teach kids that because they're not ready to comprehend thing son that level. If they had a concept of melody hat would allow for the linking together of dissimilar sounds like that to form what you will treat as a melody, it would become symphonic; but in a way in which most people are not familiar.

But an audience which is not prepared to understand a melody in that sense would hear that as: "Hey! They just hit the garbage can three times. Now what are they doing? Oh! It's a siren." If they can't relate that first chunk, which is supposed to be the melody, they've got no hope in the world of following the variations on it. It would be very beneficial for all the people who listen to music to stretch their imagination, and open up their ears a little bit.

If they just didn't have all these preconceived notions and prejudices it's just like the Negroes not allowing the hairy people into their restaurant . . . if people stopped being musically bigoted, they might find out they can get enjoyment from something like this. I defend anybody to play what he wants to hear. The job of a composer is to make what he thinks is music. Unfortunately, today it's hard to convince a lot of other people that what you're writing is music...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:48 pm 
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So, if you don't like it, you're stupid.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:20 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
So, if you don't like it, you're stupid.

Music to my ears!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:15 am 
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I'm still enjoying Feeding... very much, but I really wish that FZ was around to explain the pieces further, especially the title track. I'm fairly musical (can play a couple instruments, can read music), but there are elements of the title track that are still hard for me to grasp:

1. There is rarely a steady pulse or rhythm. How would this music be transcribed in regards to time signatures and tempo? How would measures be determined, as it seems near impossible to find the "one" beat?

2. FZ often treated his extremely difficult pieces as program music, writing stories/descriptions to help the listener find a way (visual/imaginative/narrative) into the music. If he had released the title track, would he have included a story/description along with it? How would it relate to the title? I feel that such a story would help -- the stories from The Perfect Stranger helped me immensely in getting a handle on the music.

I agree with Brainpang -- sometimes it's best to have this music on as background (driving/chores/etc) -- then it does seem to slowly creep into your memory banks and makes it easier to recognize different sections and melodies.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:14 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
I can honestly say that I don't understand this record, but I like it anyway.

Same here, although I cannot say I like it yet :-/


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:31 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
… 1. There is rarely a steady pulse or rhythm. How would this music be transcribed in regards to time signatures and tempo? How would measures be determined, as it seems near impossible to find the "one" beat? …

Why should this be necessary at all? There is no reason why it should be possible to write it down in standard notation when there is no intention to perform it with real musicians.

Why must there be a steady pulse? Why measures? I can see no reason for it. As a musician (and for sure as a composer) you should strive to leave those conventions behind you. Otherwise you will trapped in limitations all the time. Free yourself. As musician and as listener. Notation is NOT music.

If pulse, beat, measures, etc. are the main factors in music for you should listen to disco music.

(BTW: I'm a musician, too. So to a degree I know what I'm talking about.)

Th.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:36 am 
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Maroual wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
I can honestly say that I don't understand this record, but I like it anyway.

Same here, although I cannot say I like it yet :-/

Me either, but I can say I already know that I'll like it with 99,99% chance :wink:

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Last edited by Mr_Green_Genes on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:51 am 
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Thinman wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
… 1. There is rarely a steady pulse or rhythm. How would this music be transcribed in regards to time signatures and tempo? How would measures be determined, as it seems near impossible to find the "one" beat? …

Why should this be necessary at all? There is no reason why it should be possible to write it down in standard notation when there is no intention to perform it with real musicians.

Why must there be a steady pulse? Why measures? I can see no reason for it. As a musician (and for sure as a composer) you should strive to leave those conventions behind you. Otherwise you will trapped in limitations all the time. Free yourself. As musician and as listener. Notation is NOT music.

If pulse, beat, measures, etc. are the main factors in music for you should listen to disco music.

(BTW: I'm a musician, too. So to a degree I know what I'm talking about.)

Th.


Lighten up, Francis. I never said that those elements are the main factors in music for me. I'm just looking for ways to better understand the music and possibly enjoy it even more than I already am.

BTW, I'm a bitter, jaded fuck too, so no harm, no foul :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
I can honestly say that I don't understand this record, but I like it anyway.
I can honestly say that I agree with that statement.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:18 pm 
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I had a visit from my neice 11 and nephew 13, feeding the monkies was playing on a very low volume in the background, the adults (I use the term loosely) left the room for around 30 minuites, when we returned the kids had the music pumping and were bouncing around the room laughing their heads off, there "john denver fan" father was quite shocked, they don't act like that when they hear the wiggles he said....he's quite out of touch with what his children are watching and listening to, Ive ordered a copy of monkies for them, a little education from uncle Frank and its rated G


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Hermeto always wisely says that children are much more ready to listen to music (any music) than adults...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Hermeto was not familiar with my taste in music at a young age.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Yeah, Hermeto made a gross generalization there not supported by my experiences. Not that vice-versa would apply either.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:51 pm 
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He was talking about Brazilian children.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:40 am 
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Finally got to listen to this album, have allways loved Zappa's synclavier music and this is excellent, my favorite has to be "worms from hell" i just cant stop listening to it, more more more, please please please, hope i don't have to wait another 17 years between synclavier albums, bring on Dance Me This!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
I had a visit from my neice 11 and nephew 13, feeding the monkies was playing on a very low volume in the background, the adults (I use the term loosely) left the room for around 30 minuites, when we returned the kids had the music pumping and were bouncing around the room laughing their heads off, there "john denver fan" father was quite shocked, they don't act like that when they hear the wiggles he said....he's quite out of touch with what his children are watching and listening to, Ive ordered a copy of monkies for them, a little education from uncle Frank and its rated G


Why the hell are 11 and 13 year olds watching the Wiggles in the first place?


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