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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:04 am 
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I just ordered this on Amazon. The product description sounds promising given that both sides of the self-destruction were interviewed. None of the other FZ books touched on this in great detail although I remember reading some interesting stuff on Mike Keneally's web site several years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Zappa-Hard-Way-An ... 317&sr=1-1

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'Zappa The Hard Way' is the story of Frank Zappa's last ever world tour that ended in mutiny. In 1988 Frank Zappa toured with a twelve-piece band that had rehearsed for months, learned a repertoire of over 100 songs and played an entirely different set each night. It is why, in Zappa's own words, it was "the best band you never heard in your life" - a reference to East Coast American audiences who never got the chance to see this particular touring ensemble. Zappa appointed bass player Scott Thunes to rehearse the group in his absence. In carrying out this role, Thunes was apparently abrasive, blunt and rude to the other members and two factions quickly developed: Thunes and stunt guitarist Mike Keneally on the one side; the remaining nine band members on the other. The atmosphere deteriorated as the tour progressed through America and on to Europe. Before leaving Europe, Zappa told the band that there were ten more weeks of concerts booked in the USA and asked them: "If Scott's in the band, will you do the tour?" With the exception of Keneally, they all said "no". Rather than replace Thunes, Zappa cancelled almost three months of concerts and never toured again - claiming to have lost $400,000 in the process. 'Zappa The Hard Way' documents that tour. If you think touring can be fun, think again! Yes there were groupies and the usual paraphernalia associated with rock 'n' roll, but there was also bitterness and skulduggery on a scale that no one could imagine. Author Andrew Greenaway has interviewed the surviving band members and others associated with the tour to unravel the goings on behind the scenes that drove Zappa to call a halt to proceedings, despite the huge personal financial losses. This paperback edition includes a foreword by Zappa's sister Candy, and an afterword by Pauline Butcher, Zappa's former secretary and author of 'Freak Out! My Life With Frank Zappa', 'Zappa The Hard Way' might just be the best book you've never read in your life!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:50 pm 
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I "talked" to Scott Thunes years ago through emails about the '88 tour. (I wish I had saved them)
Anyways, I found Scott to be very friendly and down to earth. His version of what went down, during
the final days, was that from the very start some band members were jealous of his role. Scott named
names which I won't go into. Some felt they had been overlooked by Zappa and they should've been
given the job. It got so "bad," according to Thunes, that members of the band arrived late for
rehearaals, played sloppily on purpose, or didn't show up at all. Thunes spoke to Frank about it.
Frank came down and saw this was a total mess. As that book states, half the guys didn't want to
work with Thunes anymore. Frank pulled the plug on the tour.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Cool! Just ordered it. I was wondering when an affordable US edition was going to come out.

Regarding Scott Thunes, I always kind of sympathized with his side of the story, just going by what I've heard from various interviews with Frank. However, I recently read Bryan Beller's account of his experience with Z, and he doesn't paint a particularly flattering picture of Scott. Sounds like he maybe wasn't the nicest guy to work with. Then again, who knows?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Bought it for Sabbs, for Christmas. Hope she likes it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:23 pm 
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At the time I was patiently waiting for the west coast dates to be announced and lo & behold The Berkeley Barb had a little artical in the back about the tour being cancelled.The artical was leaning towards Frank being to sick to continue.At the time I knew nothing about FZ's cancer.Thats how I found out FZ was even ill.I just thought he would be treated and return to finish the tour or start a new one.He did seem to like the Bezerkeley,Ca.audiences,and always played somewhere around the Bay Area every tour.He had A Zappa Affair there to.A benifit for the BSO. So when he cancelled the west coast portion of the world tour I was aghast! What did we do wrong...ya know? On this coast it was assumed that he had finished all his dates back east.So,I've always wondered if the band played any east coast gigs after the European tour or did they get stateside and scatter? Is there any recordings from that FZ band line up out there or coming from The Vault?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:35 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
So,I've always wondered if the band played any east coast gigs after the European tour or did they get stateside and scatter? Is there any recordings from that FZ band line up out there or coming from The Vault?

I saw him March 9, 1988 in Buffalo. As I understand things, he played two New York gigs after that, then went to Europe, and then never made it back to the states.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:55 pm 
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just plain doug wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
So,I've always wondered if the band played any east coast gigs after the European tour or did they get stateside and scatter? Is there any recordings from that FZ band line up out there or coming from The Vault?

I saw him March 9, 1988 in Buffalo. As I understand things, he played two New York gigs after that, then went to Europe, and then never made it back to the states.

Image

Thanks jpd,(drooling with envy) you had some great seats there and only $17:50! So,how did the band sound and interact that night? That's if you remember.... :wink: 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Just finished this book. It's a nice companion to another book called Cold Sweat:Interviews With Scary Musicians that has a chapter devoted to Scott and the '88 tour. Also check out Mike Keneally's tour diaries that are archived on his website. After reading the varying accounts including Scott's direct interviews I can only surmise that Scott was just the wrong cat for the job (clonemeister). By his own admission he didn't have the social skills to pull it off and from reading all these accounts I wouldn't even want to meet the guy even in a fan friendly forum for fear he would bite my head off. He comes off as being really intelligent and funny but highly anti-social. It's really fascinating reading. Also check out Bryan Beller writings alluded to in an earlier post on this thread (archived on Bryans website somewhere) about Z and the transition from Scott to Bryan when Dweezil had to fire Thunes because he was such a dick to Joe Travers in that band.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Quote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Is there any recordings from that FZ band line up out there or coming from The Vault?[/quote]


"Broadway the Hard Way", "Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life", "Make a Jazz Noise Here" and several tracks on some of the latter YCDTOSA discs.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:20 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Thanks jpd,(drooling with envy) you had some great seats there and only $17:50! So,how did the band sound and interact that night? That's if you remember.... :wink: 8)

To quote Worf..."Impressive."
What sticks most in my mind was the Stairway To Heaven ~Watermelon In Easter Hay section.
But, truth be told, without knowing anything about internal strife, Scott Thunes struck me as being a prick. He gave a roadie shit for something, and just seemed to scowl for the whole concert. I was shocked and stunned, when I saw Thunes being playful in the "Does Humor" video. That was so opposite of what I had seen.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:24 pm 
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There's some speculation in the new book that I similarly theorized somewhere in this forum a few years back (wish I could find it) of why Scott was the way he was. His older brother (who was also a musician) and his Dad both died shortly before the start of the tour and his mother had died some years earlier. When confronted with this in the book he denies it but to me it sounds to me that he was still in denial. Maybe that's an excuse and maybe it's not.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:23 pm 
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The times I've seen Scott Thunes with FZ he sure stood out.Even when I was on the otherside of the stage he could become distracting.He's so tall and with that wide stance you'd think what he did was the show.It was attitude to.Alot of pogo-playing and turning to the band at the end or break in a number like OK boy's on my que,kinda shit.I could see where this could be a cause for infighting.I mean FZ is the leader of the band and to put anyone else in that place is impossible,for the person and the band.Damn I wish they could of held it together until after the west coast tour! Thanks for your input jpd(you lucky dawg!) & KU2.(can I borrow your copy?) 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:35 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
The times I've seen Scott Thunes with FZ he sure stood out.Even when I was on the otherside of the stage he could become distracting.He's so tall and with that wide stance you'd think what he did was the show.It was attitude to.Alot of pogo-playing and turning to the band at the end or break in a number like OK boy's on my que,kinda shit.I could see where this could be a cause for infighting.I mean FZ is the leader of the band and to put anyone else in that place is impossible,for the person and the band.Damn I wish they could of held it together until after the west coast tour! Thanks for your input jpd(you lucky dawg!) & KU2.(can I borrow your copy?) 8)

Yeah. Send me your address. I'm not sure I have it. You can give it back to me at ZPZ Chico.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:03 am 
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KillUgly2 wrote:
There's some speculation in the new book that I similarly theorized somewhere in this forum a few years back (wish I could find it) of why Scott was the way he was. His older brother (who was also a musician) and his Dad both died shortly before the start of the tour and his mother had died some years earlier. When confronted with this in the book he denies it but to me it sounds to me that he was still in denial. Maybe that's an excuse and maybe it's not.


Friend of mine, who is one of the biggest music lovers on the planet and a totally sound guy was introduced to Scott at that Zappa do last year at the round house, London. Scott was as rude and arrogant as he ever was.

As for Andrew's book; I was a little disappointed. It felt a bit short, would have loved more details on the rehearsals. Writing style was a bit disjointed, at times I'd lose who he was writing about but to be fair I'm a crap reader. Fair play to Andrew, excellent go 4/5.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:54 pm 
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I don't feel like Andrew added much. Save yourself some money and read Mike Keneally's tour diary at his website.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:45 pm 
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Ringo wrote:
KillUgly2 wrote:
There's some speculation in the new book that I similarly theorized somewhere in this forum a few years back (wish I could find it) of why Scott was the way he was. His older brother (who was also a musician) and his Dad both died shortly before the start of the tour and his mother had died some years earlier. When confronted with this in the book he denies it but to me it sounds to me that he was still in denial. Maybe that's an excuse and maybe it's not.


Friend of mine, who is one of the biggest music lovers on the planet and a totally sound guy was introduced to Scott at that Zappa do last year at the round house, London. Scott was as rude and arrogant as he ever was.

As for Andrew's book; I was a little disappointed. It felt a bit short, would have loved more details on the rehearsals. Writing style was a bit disjointed, at times I'd lose who he was writing about but to be fair I'm a crap reader. Fair play to Andrew, excellent go 4/5.

Yeah. I don't want to be critical of Andrew as I think it is well written and I did learn a few new things (like how Thunes' has a "massive" penis) but it is a little bland after already having read Keneally's diaries and Cold Sweat:Interviews With Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor. Whatever Thunes' shortcomings, faults, blah, blah, blah, he is a very interesting study for us amateur psychologists. Again, having said that I have no desire to approach the guy after a show to shake his hand and say "nice job".


Last edited by KillUgly2 on Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:57 pm 
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KillUgly2 wrote:
Yeah. I don't want to be critical of Andrew as I think it is well written and I did learn a few new things (like how Thunes' has a "massive" dick) but it is a little bland after already having read Cold Sweat:Interviews With Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor in which we get pure unadulterated Thunes. Whatever Thunes' shortcomings, faults, blah, blah, blah, he is a very interesting study for us amateur psychologists. Again, having said that I have no desire to approach the guy after a show to shake his hand and say "nice job".

After the show how much will you give me to ask him why he comes off to the pubic eye,as such a prick? Or how's about,I hear your a prick to work with if a musician is not as perfect a prick as you? Do I just cut to the chase.... Hey Scott,is your dick really as massive an organ,as it sez in the book? Whip it out Thunes....can we poke it with a stick? We outta make a sign! What would be a good "funny" sign,and cameras we need proof to bring back to Zappa .com! Are the Plaster Casters still wth us? They're great in these situations.I wonder if I can get an autograph on his setlist too? Is your dick the inspiration for Baby Snakes? :roll: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:46 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
KillUgly2 wrote:
Yeah. I don't want to be critical of Andrew as I think it is well written and I did learn a few new things (like how Thunes' has a "massive" dick) but it is a little bland after already having read Cold Sweat:Interviews With Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor in which we get pure unadulterated Thunes. Whatever Thunes' shortcomings, faults, blah, blah, blah, he is a very interesting study for us amateur psychologists. Again, having said that I have no desire to approach the guy after a show to shake his hand and say "nice job".

After the show how much will you give me to ask him why he comes off to the pubic eye,as such a prick? Or how's about,I hear your a prick to work with if a musician is not as perfect a prick as you? Do I just cut to the chase.... Hey Scott,is your dick really as massive an organ,as it sez in the book? Whip it out Thunes....can we poke it with a stick? We outta make a sign! What would be a good "funny" sign,and cameras we need proof to bring back to Zappa .com! Are the Plaster Casters still wth us? They're great in these situations.I wonder if I can get an autograph on his setlist too? Is your dick the inspiration for Baby Snakes? :roll: :mrgreen:

Yeah. If you do that I'll GIVE you the book. Maybe he'll sign it for you. Baby Snakes no, but apparently he is the REAL Bwana Dik (at least according to Dr. Dot who had it in her mouth for much of the U.S. leg of the tour).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:49 am 
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This is old news.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:00 pm 
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massagio wrote:
This is old news.

So is the '88 tour band,so is Frank Zappa & the MOI,but we still talk about them anyway because we like to.I hope this is cool with you? You can always opt-out,skip it,or just put us/me on ignore. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:56 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
massagio wrote:
This is old news.

So is the '88 tour band,so is Frank Zappa & the MOI,but we still talk about them anyway because we like to.I hope this is cool with you? You can always opt-out,skip it,or just put us/me on ignore. :P

Yeah. Some of this is not old news to me. You beat me to the punch, Kapt. The minute we've heard it all you might as well fold this forum in on itself. Sometimes I think it's all been told but then again, NO!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:57 pm 
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KillUgly2 wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
massagio wrote:
This is old news.

So is the '88 tour band,so is Frank Zappa & the MOI,but we still talk about them anyway because we like to.I hope this is cool with you? You can always opt-out,skip it,or just put us/me on ignore. :P

Yeah. Some of this is not old news to me. You beat me to the punch, Kapt. The minute we've heard it all you might as well fold this forum in on itself. Sometimes I think it's all been told but then again, NO!

Exactly,I don't know FZ's life all the way through.So some of us do have holes in our FZ story.All things FZ are interesting to me.Even going over the old stuff of other peoples post,I'll find something I was unawhere of before.It's cool to me. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:34 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
massagio wrote:
This is old news.

So is the '88 tour band,so is Frank Zappa & the MOI,but we still talk about them anyway because we like to.I hope this is cool with you? You can always opt-out,skip it,or just put us/me on ignore. :P


I did not mean the content of the book itself, but the realese of the fucking book! It's been out for months!

I tought all the zappa freaks on this forum had already bought it! I have, and its great! :)

Even with a delicious slipcase..


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:06 am 
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KillUgly2 wrote:
Yeah. I don't want to be critical of Andrew as I think it is well written and I did learn a few new things (like how Thunes' has a "massive" dick) but it is a little bland after already having read Cold Sweat:Interviews With Scary Musicians by Thomas Wictor in which we get pure unadulterated Thunes.


Although one can read Keneally and Thunes's views elsewhere the book is worth a read for Ed Mann's comments since he does an honest and articulate job of giving the other side of the story.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:06 am 
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massagio wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
massagio wrote:
This is old news.

So is the '88 tour band,so is Frank Zappa & the MOI,but we still talk about them anyway because we like to.I hope this is cool with you? You can always opt-out,skip it,or just put us/me on ignore. :P


I did not mean the content of the book itself, but the realese of the fucking book! It's been out for months!

I tought all the zappa freaks on this forum had already bought it! I have, and its great! :)

Even with a delicious slipcase..

The paperback (affordable) version only recently came out. At least here in the U.S. I agree the book is good and well worth the purchase. It's just that I had already read much of the source material. Andrew glued it all together nicely though and added quite a bit.


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