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 Post subject: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:39 am 
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While Ron Paul stews in his own juices on the back-burner of corporate-controlled political parties, we should not forget that there is a popular alternative to the phony left-right paradigm of the gigantic mass deception called the "two-party system"

http://www.lp.org/

Would it kill you to vote, just once, outside the baloneysphere?

Do you really think that Romney is any different than Obama? The ridiculously stupid issues created by the corporate media for us to "debate" are simply distractions from the real issues.

We don't need more of the same. Obama and Romney are two sides of the same coin, the corporate war coin.

It is not a wasted vote. People of integrity vote their concious. They don't vote for who they think will win, or who they think is most like themselves. They vote for the person who will do their country the most good...and right now, this country needs a break from the "two-in-one" party system

Vote Liberatarian...if no Paul, this is the call.


Last edited by A rope leash on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:10 am 
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There's one fatal flaw with the Liberatarian philiosophy.

When they say that they want to shrink the size of government, it all sounds fine and dandy. But in reality, when you cut the size of government, you put more power into fewer peoples hands, and that is what is called a dictatorship.

If were to consider voting Independant, I'd vote Green. I plan on voting for Obama again, because he, like his Democrat predecessors since Kennedy all have a record of job creation. Even Jimmy Carter Created more jobs than every Republican since Nixon. Carter is also the only US president in over 60 years who has never started a war of some type. The only reason Clinton and Obama had to get involved with any wars is because of Liberatarian minded Republicans.

Get your facts straight.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:22 am 
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I vote for the best candidate who can win, according to my values and priorities. While it feels morally good to vote for someone you like, but has no chance to win (for example, Ralph Nader in the last presidential election), imo it's a neutered vote. Why would anyone consciously choose to cast a vote that won't count? If I thought the Liberatarian candidate could win and govern effectively, and also matched my values and priorities, I would vote for that person.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:37 am 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
... Why would anyone consciously choose to cast a vote that won't count?...

Sorry, Ronnys, I'm with rope on that part. I don't think the point of voting is to be one of the people who picks the winner, but to pick who you think is the best choice for the country.
In fact, I think its a slippery slope for many people going from "Why cast a vote that won't count?" to "Why bother voting?".

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:19 am 
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Hey Arkay, would you mind clarifying for me? In america your vote is not preferential? Here in OZ I tend to vote for alternative parties when there's one that I think is worth it and if they don't get through my vote slips through to the major party of my preference. It seems to me that's the only fair way to run a vote. That way everyone ends up with at least some kind of say at the end of it all.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:29 am 
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Nope, there have been people who have voted for FZ after he has been gone and those votes count.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:30 am 
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Less government means dictatorship? SPACEBROTHER, your brain is wired up weird.

Less government means more freedom. That's just common sense. The Liberatarian philosophy is all about getting government off the backs of the people, and giving governmental power back to the people. The problem now is that the real power is in the hands of a few corporations, which in essence, is an oligarchy, which is pretty close to a dictatorship.

I don't have a problem with the Green Party. Just don't vote for the current paradigm.

Interesting vote system there in OZ, poly...I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, though.

Yeah, vote for Frank...definitely not a wasted vote!


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:35 am 
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I'm voting Whig. Don't tell me I'm wasting my vote!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:59 am 
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Good vote cal!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Libertarian -- please note the proper spelling. Where do Libertarians stand on public education?


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Oops! I "spelt" it wrong!

They probably don't like public education.

But that doesn't mean if we elect a Libertarian as pResident that public education will immediately cease to exist, as I'm sure SPACEBROTHER would insist will be the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:32 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
... Why would anyone consciously choose to cast a vote that won't count?...

Sorry, Ronnys, I'm with rope on that part. I don't think the point of voting is to be one of the people who picks the winner, but to pick who you think is the best choice for the country.
In fact, I think its a slippery slope for many people going from "Why cast a vote that won't count?" to "Why bother voting?".

Yes, I get it. But to me the best choice must be someone who can make it. Voting is the most tangible thing we can do individually to have a say in how things go, for better or worse. And, for me there's no slippery slope; I'm voting no matter what. Perhaps that would be true for others, I don't know.

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Everytime we picked a booger we'd flip it on this one winduh. Every night we'd contribute, 2, 3, 4 boogers. We had to use a putty knife, man, to get them damn things off the winduh. There was some goober ones that weren't even hard...


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Dear Ronnie...if the only candidates that can "make it" are the pre-approved corporate plastic-fantastic wannabe despots, then the fix is in and the election is bogus.

Third party candidates can win, if we vote for them. Just because the major media ignores them, doesn't mean they aren't real.

It's time to show the "powers that be" who has the real power.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:03 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
There's one fatal flaw with the Liberatarian philiosophy.

When they say that they want to shrink the size of government, it all sounds fine and dandy. But in reality, when you cut the size of government, you put more power into fewer peoples hands, and that is what is called a dictatorship.

If were to consider voting Independant, I'd vote Green. I plan on voting for Obama again, because he, like his Democrat predecessors since Kennedy all have a record of job creation. Even Jimmy Carter Created more jobs than every Republican since Nixon. Carter is also the only US president in over 60 years who has never started a war of some type. The only reason Clinton and Obama had to get involved with any wars is because of Liberatarian minded Republicans.

Get your facts straight.


The table below lists the amount of private sector jobs created in thousands during each President’s tenure. Again, this table displays all private sector jobs; government sector jobs are NOT included (i.e., during the years Harry S. Truman was President (1946 – 1952), approximately 8.75 million private sector jobs were created). To see the raw data on the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ website, use Series ID CES0500000001.

Jobs Created in Thousands President Political Party
6,551 Franklin D. Roosevelt Democrat
8,752 Harry S. Truman Democrat
1,555 Dwight D. Eisenhower Republican
2,728 John F. Kennedy Democrat
8,892 Lyndon B. Johnson Democrat
5,255 Richard Nixon Republican
2,234 Gerald Ford Republican
8,592 Jimmy Carter Democrat
13,594 Ronald Reagan Republican
1,042 George H. W. Bush Republican
19,495 Bill Clinton Democrat
-563 George W. Bush Republican
-871 Barack Obama Democrat


Therefore, the average amount of private sector jobs created during Democratic Presidential terms is 1,463,220 and the average amount during Republican Presidential terms is 642,000.

To read additional information, click on United States Bureau of Labor Statistics.
http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/http:/t ... cal-party/

Just the facts , ma'am :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Interesting vote system there in OZ, poly...I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, though.
It's perfectly simply and fair. As you move towards the final two candidates, if yours has lost out you still get a say with the final two. It seems to me a system that kills your vote just because you chose a candidate that didn't last until the final round sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:37 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
When they say that they want to shrink the size of government, it all sounds fine and dandy. But in reality, when you cut the size of government, you put more power into fewer peoples hands, and that is what is called a dictatorship.
Government is a catch 22. They largely end up supporting the status quo, hence you're at the mercy of big capital, but, government has become a kind of civiliser of capitalism over the last century or so and that's better than nothing. But getting rid of government is no guarantee of more power for the people. Where do people think the power was before we had modern government and where do they think the power will return if you take that government away?

The crap some people talk about the captains of industry and their assumed benevolence without the interference of government is beyond naive.

Tax is about the massive superstructure that we have all become dependent on. Handing that over to private concerns is insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:06 pm 
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polydigm wrote:

Tax is about the massive superstructure that we have all become dependent on. Handing that over to private concerns is insane.



Are you not in favor of keeping what you earn ? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:25 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Tax is about the massive superstructure that we have all become dependent on. Handing that over to private concerns is insane.
Are you not in favor of keeping what you earn ? :?
Of course, I, like any other greedy human being would like to hang on to as much as I can but the fact is there are plenty of things out there that I depend on that have to be paid for somehow. I'm not saying it's done fairly and that things shouldn't change but tax is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:29 am 
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I agree tax is necessary , but , over taxing by wasteful spenders in government is what got us where we are today.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Liberatarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:10 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
SPACEBROTHER, your brain is wired up weird.


...to say the least.

And I think you're right, since it now looks like Ron Paul won't get the Republican nomination, Gary Johnson seems to be the only logical alternative...

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:13 am 
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Quick everyone, forget about Ron Paul! Vote for Gary Johnson!

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:14 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
I agree tax is necessary , but , over taxing by wasteful spenders in government is what got us where we are today.
If only life were really that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:02 am 
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Is it moral to pay taxes when the tax money is used to pay interest on money borrowed for bogus military adventures?

I say it is not moral! I pay taxes because I want to avoid jail!


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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:21 am 
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Vote Gary Johnson, then!
"While Johnson positions himself as a strong anti-war candidate who wants to cut the defense budget by 43 percent, he told TheDC that he supports America’s efforts to aid African troops in tracking down Lord’s Resistance Army leader Joseph Kony and that he wouldn’t rule out leaving behind American bases in Afghanistan.

Johnson said that while he wants to end the war in Afghanistan, that doesn’t mean he would necessarily stop drone attacks against terrorists in Pakistan or Yemen, even though he believes they create more enemies than they kill.

“I would want leave all options on the table,” Johnson said.

“But there’s an unintended consequence when it comes to drone attacks in Yemen,” he continued. “Yeah, you take out the al-Qaida stronghold, but you also wipe out the other half of the block. That makes Yemenis against the United States for the rest of their lives and all their descendants.”
But if Johnson plans on leaving Afghanistan, how does he plan to leave the option of a drone campaign against al-Qaida elements in Pakistan on the table?

“So now you have the U.S. bases that exist in those areas, do we shut down those military bases? Perhaps not,” he suggested, taking an odd position for a supposed anti-war candidate.

“I would completely withdraw our military presence,” he further expounded. “Does withdrawing our military presence from Afghanistan mean that we would still have a base open in Afghanistan if they allowed us to keep a base open? Perhaps.”

Johnson said that while he favors withdrawing or reducing American forces based in Europe and the Far East, the Middle East is a region of the world the U.S. should remain in.

“Where strategically should we be?” he asked.

“You would think that strategically we should be in the Middle East. Should we be in the Philippines? I’m just saying that this isn’t going to be a wholesale — a 43 percent reduction, in my opinion, gets us back to 2003 funding levels and just wrings out the excess.”

But despite Johnson saying he thinks that the Middle East is a region of the world the United States should maintain a military presence in, he contended that there are “no military threats” to the U.S. anywhere in the world."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/thedc ... z1xDCmyrET

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 Post subject: Re: Vote Libertarian!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:48 am 
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Hmmm...he's only about half the war-monger that the two mainstream candidates are. That should make him acceptable to the corporations!

He wants to legalize weed. Vote for Gary!


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