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 Post subject: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:19 am 
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Location: Bloody London
I know there are various bootlegs kicking about, but I would love a proper purchasable (rather than hire-only) release of some of his orchestral compositions.

Actually, what I'd really like is a score for The Black Page to give me a head start in emulating that gorgeous Tommy Mars piano solo version that's kicking about...


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:36 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Studio
When I can't find the notes to a certain composition, and most of what I consider to be good stuff is not readily available, I write it out myself. Most of my charts are in conductor score form and contain all instruments. I usually don't transcribe solos into scores but may do a solo separately.

Been studying & transcribing Frank's compositions for 3 decades now and have about 50 scores finished. Maybe one day I'll be able to have some of them published but at this time they're only for educational purposes per the copyright law fair use clause. I would never deviate from the copyright laws as I'm also an artist and have personally lost residuals because some of my own music was pirated.

Maybe one day I'll find the money to properly secure publishing rights, printing and distribution and do it the right way. Sure don't have it now though. I'm really only in it for the music.


Peace. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Location: Studio
Most scores would not have solos written out as solos are mostly improvised over a theme or set of changes.

Maybe a member of a keyboard forum would have transcriptions of some of Tommy's solos. If you play but don't read maybe you could figure it out by ear too. One of the best things any player can do is figure out solos. An important skill for any player to develop.

Orchestras aside, a player with the ability to correctly play parts by ear has a more valuable skill in a band than a player who can only read. I know some fine players who can read anything on the stand but can't resolve a II-V to I. Others who can't read a note but can play interesting stuff over just about any harmonic sequence even unconventional ones.

I think every player should learn to at least read fake book type charts but unless you wanna be a studio shark or a black tie orchestra guy it's really not mandatory. In a band situation, I'll hire the better ear player every time.

Hope you find that solo.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Posts: 273
WhoDat wrote:
Most scores would not have solos written out as solos are mostly improvised over a theme or set of changes.
...


Wouldn't that be a bit strange, unless you found the same piece and 274 different solos for that one same sequence tha tlasted 2 and a quarter minutes?

I find this strange ... and some times we think that the violin concertos written by Mozart and what not hundreds of years ago, were "representative" of the time and place, and the likelihood, is that THEY WEREN'T and that Mozart was probably writing a few things, to reflect some of the players he might have met on the street, or in the bars (whatever) that ... the classical music of the time and courtesans of the court, would NOT allow ... it reminds me of that moment in "Amadeus" and some academics love to tell me ... that's a movie ... but the comment is a serious stickler for the music of those days ... when he asks the kind his opinion and he doesn't have one and eventually says ... too many notes ... that's it ... too many notes and all the cabinet immediately kisses his ass!

Basically, we have to transcribe these things ... and if there are 15 versions so be it ... and I do not believe that Frank's transcriptions would be that bad, since he does not use effects that hide the sound to the point where it doesn't make sense, like Andy Summers and The Edge do .. the transposition of some of their pieces are horrible, until you add that bit of Phaze, and this and that ... voila ... you have a famous song ... the transcription of that ... will never match what you heard in your ears, which sounded like a totally different set of notes ... when you played something else.

This is, for sure, a serious issue with rock music, and one of my biggest ticks on too much of the metal music ... you know two folks in Dream Theater are playing notes, and are virtuosi ... no question there ... but the moment you unplug them ... all it looks like you get is a bunch of scales up and down ... and sometimes even less music! Thus, "metal" is a sound effect, and as such not necessarily a valid musical form or format!

There is not a whole lot of Frank's music that I imagine can not be notated, and there were many jokes about that in 200 Motels.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Location: Billy, the mountain...
Just one more time wrote:
The Black Page (..) gorgeous Tommy Mars piano solo version that's kicking about...

:? [click me, I'm clean]

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
I've given up on this. Gail and I spoke (via email of course) about this more than five years ago. Student scores were going to happen, then they didn't, then she stopped talking about it. I've given up. It doesn't really affect me personally anymore but I still believe there should be student scores of his music out there, just like with most other at least half way decent composers. It's probably not an economical proposition, though.

So ... sigh ...

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:08 am 
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Posts: 1181
Moshkito wrote:
WhoDat wrote:
Most scores would not have solos written out as solos are mostly improvised over a theme or set of changes.
...


Wouldn't that be a bit strange, unless you found the same piece and 274 different solos for that one same sequence tha tlasted 2 and a quarter minutes?

I find this strange ... and some times we think that the violin concertos written by Mozart and what not hundreds of years ago, were "representative" of the time and place, and the likelihood, is that THEY WEREN'T and that Mozart was probably writing a few things, to reflect some of the players he might have met on the street, or in the bars (whatever) that ... the classical music of the time and courtesans of the court, would NOT allow ... it reminds me of that moment in "Amadeus" and some academics love to tell me ... that's a movie ... but the comment is a serious stickler for the music of those days ... when he asks the kind his opinion and he doesn't have one and eventually says ... too many notes ... that's it ... too many notes and all the cabinet immediately kisses his ass!

Basically, we have to transcribe these things ... and if there are 15 versions so be it ... and I do not believe that Frank's transcriptions would be that bad, since he does not use effects that hide the sound to the point where it doesn't make sense, like Andy Summers and The Edge do .. the transposition of some of their pieces are horrible, until you add that bit of Phaze, and this and that ... voila ... you have a famous song ... the transcription of that ... will never match what you heard in your ears, which sounded like a totally different set of notes ... when you played something else.

This is, for sure, a serious issue with rock music, and one of my biggest ticks on too much of the metal music ... you know two folks in Dream Theater are playing notes, and are virtuosi ... no question there ... but the moment you unplug them ... all it looks like you get is a bunch of scales up and down ... and sometimes even less music! Thus, "metal" is a sound effect, and as such not necessarily a valid musical form or format!

There is not a whole lot of Frank's music that I imagine can not be notated, and there were many jokes about that in 200 Motels.


I understand your point of view (I think) but I don't agree with it.
With recorded music the important thing is how it sounds, not how pretty it looks on the printed page.

The idea of 'metal' not being a valid musical form is funny-what does that even mean? I listen to a lot of it, and I would say that it is one of the few truly progressive types of music out there-in my mind the metal landscape is as exciting as the jazz landscape would have been in the late '50s.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:57 am 
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Posts: 298
Location: Philly
FWIW I have several "Dweezil approved" horn section transcriptions on my website. Apostrophe, Overnite, Roxy.

http://www.gotobugler.com

click the music tab, then transcriptions. Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Location: EINDHOVEN
bugler wrote:
FWIW I have several "Dweezil approved" horn section transcriptions on my website. Apostrophe, Overnite, Roxy.

http://www.gotobugler.com

click the music tab, then transcriptions. Enjoy!


Is that you in the red coat? Nice!
Thanks for the link: will check out the music in three days.
How did you get Dweezil's approval (and where can I get it)? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:05 pm 
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BBP wrote:
...How did you get Dweezil's approval (and where can I get it)? :mrgreen:

First, he'd have to get yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:25 am
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Location: Philly
BBP wrote:
bugler wrote:
FWIW I have several "Dweezil approved" horn section transcriptions on my website. Apostrophe, Overnite, Roxy.

http://www.gotobugler.com

click the music tab, then transcriptions. Enjoy!


Is that you in the red coat? Nice!
Thanks for the link: will check out the music in three days.
How did you get Dweezil's approval (and where can I get it)? :mrgreen:



Yep, thats me. Thanks! And for a little shameless self promotion, I'll be performing with my quartet this Sat on CBS TV at 3:30PM eastern time. Show airs from 3:30-5PM, I think we are on around 4:15PM.

Dweezil found my website (no doubt because I posted the link here), and offered me an invite to his summer camp.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
I managed to get a positive comment from Dweezil on one of my pieces "Multiple Folds" that I posted on DZW.
Dweezil wrote:
Hey Geoff, Interesting piece. I'd like to hear it fully arranged with other instrumentation. The action on your guitar seems to be fretting out a bit but it adds to the quirkiness of the piece.

As I explained to him, I was having trouble with the action on that guitar at the time, I actually prefer it on my other acoustic guitar without the 'fretting out a bit', but apparently it's 'quirky', so there you go. I just haven't found the time to rehearse that piece again and record it using a different guitar.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:00 am 
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polydigm wrote:
I managed to get a positive comment from Dweezil on one of my pieces "Multiple Folds" that I posted on DZW.


Say that's nice of him!

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa Scores
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:46 am 
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Posts: 3566
Disappointed this thread isn't a list of girls Frank had fondled and more....


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