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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:30 pm 
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It won't load on my computer and none of the tracks show up with their names and on top of that whenever I try to play it a red X shows up next to the track???? Help!!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Jordan wrote:
It won't load on my computer and none of the tracks show up with their names and on top of that whenever I try to play it a red X shows up next to the track???? Help!!
This will probably sound lame, but try cleaning it. This has happened to two of my disks that must have somehow got dirty at some point in the packing process, because after cleaning them, everything was fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:28 am 
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This is going to sound really lame... but, does one usually get the song names displayed when played on the computer? I just get 'track 1' etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:37 am 
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Sam I Am wrote:
This is going to sound really lame... but, does one usually get the song names displayed when played on the computer? I just get 'track 1' etc.

At least when I am connected to the internet I do, but for the newest batch of remasters I've had to search for the info and import it, no big deal really.


On another note I closed WMP and opened up the disc in Windows Explorer and reopened it in WMP and it work finally.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:59 am 
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I have OSFA, along with AF, HR, BWS, WRMF, CR, FE, JABFLA, OS, BF, ZA, SD so far and can't find any of the technical problems described here and there. Maybe you should get some seriously manufactured EU versions if you have anything different ;-)

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:39 am 
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Do you know who made the EU discs?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:12 am 
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F.Natural wrote:
Do you know who made the EU discs?

Made in Germany by EDC, formerly known as PolyGram.

http://www.edc-gmbh.com/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyGram

Who made the US discs?

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:17 am 
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Thinman wrote:
F.Natural wrote:
Do you know who made the EU discs?

Made in Germany by EDC, formerly known as PolyGram.

http://www.edc-gmbh.com/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyGram

Who made the US discs?

Th.

Universal Music Enterprises.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:19 am 
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Jordan wrote:
Thinman wrote:
F.Natural wrote:
Do you know who made the EU discs?

Made in Germany by EDC, formerly known as PolyGram.

http://www.edc-gmbh.com/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyGram

Who made the US discs?

Th.

Universal Music Enterprises.


Does it say so near the center hole on the data side of the disc?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:21 am 
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On the data side it just says Zappa.com, but on the front of the disc it says UME and on the back of the CD case as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:26 am 
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Jordan wrote:
On the data side it just says Zappa.com, but on the front of the disc it says UME and on the back of the CD case as well.

So they definitely are different. But there is no clear information on the US versions where they have been made obviously.

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:03 am 
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On the CD: DIDX-816042 whatever that means.
Probably contracted out to various stampers in the U.S.

I am no expert and have little knowledge about how CDs are made but it looks to me like the 'bits' are not encoded in the metalic layer like they used to be which may be the cause of intermittant reading of the discs.
@ Thinman: Can you compare the appearance of one of the new releases with the appearance of an older CD? I noticed that on older CDs on the metaliic side I could visually see the tracks that the bits are stamped in. On a new release the metal layer was smooth with a slight "mottled" look.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
F.Natural wrote:
Do you know who made the EU discs?

Made in Germany by EDC, formerly known as PolyGram.

http://www.edc-gmbh.com/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyGram

Who made the US discs?

Th.


That might be the problem, but I would hope after all these years Polygram got their CD manufacturing processes together. I say this because I was first factory trained to work on CD Players in the Sony CDP101 class (CDP101 was the first consumer CD player in the US) and have attended numerous mfg tech training classes, and worked as a Tech for Philips Factory Service in the early 1990s as well.

For years Polygram had production issues with problems like air bubbles in the plastic (lasers don't read well through air bubbles). This was way back when, and again I can not imagine their problems from the early days of CD technology (we're talking back before FZ's last tour now) are not resolved.

Modern optical drives are _much_ better than CD players of old at getting data off the discs, albeit with some error correction perhaps.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:01 pm 
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msvphoto wrote:
That might be the problem, but I would hope after all these years Polygram got their CD manufacturing processes together. I say this because I was first factory trained to work on CD Players in the Sony CDP101 class (CDP101 was the first consumer CD player in the US) and have attended numerous mfg tech training classes, and worked as a Tech for Philips Factory Service in the early 1990s as well.

For years Polygram had production issues with problems like air bubbles in the plastic (lasers don't read well through air bubbles). This was way back when, and again I can not imagine their problems from the early days of CD technology (we're talking back before FZ's last tour now) are not resolved.

Modern optical drives are _much_ better than CD players of old at getting data off the discs, albeit with some error correction perhaps.


Take a look at CDs. It looks like maybe they don't encode the bits the way they used to. As I understand it they used to stamp the bits in the plastic then splatter the metalic layer on. The reading laser was then 'scattered' by the encoded 'bump' which it then read. These new disks don't appear, at least to my eyes, to have bits. I wonder if they now use a different method to encode the bits?? If not, then the 'bits' are not stamped as deeply as they used to be.
As for modern drives. My main player is a couple year old NAD player that has not had any problems with CDs before these...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:06 pm 
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F.Natural wrote:
msvphoto wrote:
That might be the problem, but I would hope after all these years Polygram got their CD manufacturing processes together. I say this because I was first factory trained to work on CD Players in the Sony CDP101 class (CDP101 was the first consumer CD player in the US) and have attended numerous mfg tech training classes, and worked as a Tech for Philips Factory Service in the early 1990s as well.

For years Polygram had production issues with problems like air bubbles in the plastic (lasers don't read well through air bubbles). This was way back when, and again I can not imagine their problems from the early days of CD technology (we're talking back before FZ's last tour now) are not resolved.

Modern optical drives are _much_ better than CD players of old at getting data off the discs, albeit with some error correction perhaps.


Take a look at CDs. It looks like maybe they don't encode the bits the way they used to. As I understand it they used to stamp the bits in the plastic then splatter the metalic layer on. The reading laser was then 'scattered' by the encoded 'bump' which it then read. These new disks don't appear, at least to my eyes, to have bits. I wonder if they now use a different method to encode the bits?? If not, then the 'bits' are not stamped as deeply as they used to be.
As for modern drives. My main player is a couple year old NAD player that has not had any problems with CDs before these...

Same here!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 pm 
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F.Natural wrote:
These new disks don't appear, at least to my eyes, to have bits.
That's some eyes you've got there given that there are about 1,411,200 bits per second of audio. That's about 85 million microscopically tiny bits per minute of audio.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:38 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
F.Natural wrote:
These new disks don't appear, at least to my eyes, to have bits.
That's some eyes you've got there given that there are about 1,411,200 bits per second of audio. That's about 85 million microscopically tiny bits per minute of audio.


Well, not exactly the 'bits' but with a simple magnifying glass you, well one, can see the tracks on a cd if the light hits just right. I just can't see them on these new disks. I may be a bit demented but I'm not delusional about this.... I'd take a picture if I could. Check out how CDs are stamped and you'll get my meaning.
What I don't know is, why can't I see the tracks on the newer disks and whether that has any correlation to the intermittant playback some are experiencing on some of the new masters. It is the only difference I could discern between an older, flawless cd and a new release that intermittantly can't be read.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 pm 
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msvphoto wrote:
Thinman wrote:
F.Natural wrote:
Do you know who made the EU discs?

Made in Germany by EDC, formerly known as PolyGram.

http://www.edc-gmbh.com/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyGram

Who made the US discs?

Th.


That might be the problem, but I would hope after all these years Polygram got their CD manufacturing processes together. I say this because I was first factory trained to work on CD Players in the Sony CDP101 class (CDP101 was the first consumer CD player in the US) and have attended numerous mfg tech training classes, and worked as a Tech for Philips Factory Service in the early 1990s as well.

For years Polygram had production issues with problems like air bubbles in the plastic (lasers don't read well through air bubbles). This was way back when, and again I can not imagine their problems from the early days of CD technology (we're talking back before FZ's last tour now) are not resolved.

Modern optical drives are _much_ better than CD players of old at getting data off the discs, albeit with some error correction perhaps.

Old Philips players are said to have the best error correction. They play everything. I have one.

As I said before, I can't reproduce any problems with the EU CDs (on any player). If there is one factory in the world that should know how to manufacture CDs then it is the EDC plant.

The people who seem to have problems with some CDs, do they have EU versions or others? Do they have problems with these new Zappa CDs only?

The EU CDs are still sold over here at relatively high prices. Could other versions that are sold for low prices (2 for 9,99 $ or things like that) be counterfeits or at least cheap lower quality versions?

@F.Natural: Trying to find problems with the encoding by looking at the discs with bare eyes or a magnifying glass is a stupid idea. Don't hurt yourself.

All the CDs I have look like normal CDs btw. ;-)

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:14 am 
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Lordy, I wish all would be as diligent examining the lice crawling around in ones hair. Sheesh!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:29 am 
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Jordan wrote:
Sam I Am wrote:
This is going to sound really lame... but, does one usually get the song names displayed when played on the computer? I just get 'track 1' etc.

At least when I am connected to the internet I do, but for the newest batch of remasters I've had to search for the info and import it, no big deal really.


On another note I closed WMP and opened up the disc in Windows Explorer and reopened it in WMP and it work finally.
Update too wmp-11 gives names of songs,click "switch too compact mode" then click "return back too full mode" Name and track times,nice :wink:
,

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:06 am 
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Thinman wrote:
The people who seem to have problems with some CDs, do they have EU versions or others? Do they have problems with these new Zappa CDs only?

Probably NOT EU versions. I had a horrible experience with Pink Floyd vinyl last year. Had to finally order from Amazon.UK to get a decent pressing.

Thinman wrote:
The EU CDs are still sold over here at relatively high prices. Could other versions that are sold for low prices (2 for 9,99 $ or things like that) be counterfeits or at least cheap lower quality versions?

That's my line of thinking. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was intentional but many things go bad when we try to cut production costs.

Thinman wrote:
@F.Natural: Trying to find problems with the encoding by looking at the discs with bare eyes or a magnifying glass is a stupid idea. Don't hurt yourself.

Yeah, I know but it's all I have. You can see the tracks, in older CDs, you obviously can't see the bits though.

Thinman wrote:
All the CDs I have look like normal CDs btw. ;-) Th.


and more importantly they are readable every time you play them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:33 am 
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So because I paid $9.99 for a copy of Sheik Yerbouti it means that my copy is no good?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:04 am 
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Jordan wrote:
So because I paid $9.99 for a copy of Sheik Yerbouti it means that my copy is no good?

Not neccessarily. We have been trying to find out who manufactured the copies that people have problems with. In the moment we don't know whether it is really the CDs or just the equipment and/or software used by some people (I have a tendency to presume the latter), because there are not enough reports to make a judgement and there is no official statement so far if there really is a wide spread problem with some runs and titles.

It is thinkable though, that they produced a cheaper run offered to stores and chains that won't pay the price they would have to pay for the presumed regular or higher quality EU or whatever runs.

Cheap manufacture could have more errors. If the consumer wants the stuff as cheap as possible there certainly has to be a quality problem sooner or later.

There must be a reason why my supplier here (http://www.jpc.de) still sells them for 15.99 € or whatever a single disc. And they are all EU versions they offer which seem to have no problems.

This is all speculation of course. All I can say is, that I paid a higher price for my EU editions, and they all play well, look good and sound good. No defects and no complaints.

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:08 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Jordan wrote:
So because I paid $9.99 for a copy of Sheik Yerbouti it means that my copy is no good?

Not neccessarily. We have been trying to find out who manufactured the copies that people have problems with. In the moment we don't know whether it is really the CDs or just the equipment and/or software used by some people (I have a tendency to presume the latter), because there are not enough reports to make a judgement and there is no official statement so far if there really is a wide spread problem with some runs and titles.

It is thinkable though, that they produced a cheaper run offered to stores and chains that won't pay the price they would have to pay for the presumed regular or higher quality EU or whatever runs.

Cheap manufacture could have more errors. If the consumer wants the stuff as cheap as possible there certainly has to be a quality problem sooner or later.

There must be a reason why my supplier here (http://www.jpc.de) still sells them for 15.99 € or whatever a single disc. And they are all EU versions they offer which seem to have no problems.

This is all speculation of course. All I can say is, that I paid a higher price for my EU editions, and they all play well, look good and sound good. No defects and no complaints.

Th.
That's because those are probably the list prices. Other places like Amazon, Best Buy, etc. probably bought them at a wholesale price and not per CD, thus got them for a more decent price and were able to sell them cheaper.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:14 am 
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Jordan wrote:
Thinman wrote:
… This is all speculation of course. All I can say is, that I paid a higher price for my EU editions, and they all play well, look good and sound good. No defects and no complaints.

Th.
That's because those are probably the list prices. Other places like Amazon, Best Buy, etc. probably bought them at a wholesale price and not per CD, thus got them for a more decent price and were able to sell them cheaper.

That would be the explanation I would hope for. But what do I know? Because the differences in prices are huge. Can that really be achieved without compromises in quality?

Th.

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