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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:06 am 
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Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute. In the case of Easy Meat it seems a shame to have such lyrics when the actual music is so interesting. I know Zappa liked to bait the moral majority but do his misogynistic and homophobic lyrics cross the line into just being nasty for nastiness sake? I know in this day and age of gangsta rap most of his stuff seems quite tame but for a man of such intelligence sometimes I just think "why Frank why"? Sometimes his world view seems quite uninformed and narrow which surprises me. I know there is a body of fans who jump ship at around Over-nite Sensation, which is a shame because there is a whole load of great music they are missing but I think Zappa really went out of his way to provoke his more "right on" fans! :mrgreen:

Another more general site question how come there is not a "Songs" index on the home page? It would be cool to have a place for discussion of individual songs?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Oh, ram it up yer poop chute....


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:53 pm 
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babaluma wrote:
Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute. In the case of Easy Meat it seems a shame to have such lyrics when the actual music is so interesting. I know Zappa liked to bait the moral majority but do his misogynistic and homophobic lyrics cross the line into just being nasty for nastiness sake? I know in this day and age of gangsta rap most of his stuff seems quite tame but for a man of such intelligence sometimes I just think "why Frank why"? Sometimes his world view seems quite uninformed and narrow which surprises me. I know there is a body of fans who jump ship at around Over-nite Sensation, which is a shame because there is a whole load of great music they are missing but I think Zappa really went out of his way to provoke his more "right on" fans! :mrgreen:

Another more general site question how come there is not a "Songs" index on the home page? It would be cool to have a place for discussion of individual songs?

I think it's a fair question but Frank just didn't care. When I was younger I pretty much defended everything he did but as I've aged I've become more critical. IMO Frank, though a very smart man, was wrong about a lot of stuff. Not necessarily his song content which to me was just entertainment, but more so in his opinions about schooling (he had his kids drop out asap), his one-sided justification for infidelity, and his general cynicism about EVERYTHING! Not a very good blueprint for most people.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:54 pm 
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babaluma wrote:
Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute. In the case of Easy Meat it seems a shame to have such lyrics when the actual music is so interesting. I know Zappa liked to bait the moral majority but do his misogynistic and homophobic lyrics cross the line into just being nasty for nastiness sake? I know in this day and age of gangsta rap most of his stuff seems quite tame but for a man of such intelligence sometimes I just think "why Frank why"? Sometimes his world view seems quite uninformed and narrow which surprises me. I know there is a body of fans who jump ship at around Over-nite Sensation, which is a shame because there is a whole load of great music they are missing but I think Zappa really went out of his way to provoke his more "right on" fans! :mrgreen:


Most people seem to think there's a shelf life for songs that include comedic lyrics. And for the most part, I would agree. But with FZ, despite the fact I've been a hardcore fan for nearly 15 years, I STILL laugh when I hear them. I enjoy Dinah-Moe Humm, He's So Gay, I'm So Cute, Bobby Brown, Jewish Princess, Dancin' Fool, etc., almost as much as technically challenging compositions, like, Marque-son's Chicken, Moggio, the Sinister Footwear movements, Echidna's Arf (Of You) & Inca Roads, etc. And even then, lyrically speaking, some of those tracks aren't that serious or serious at all. And I don't believe FZ was homophobic or misogynistic, as you pointed out. Though, at times when he was in a bad mood, that might have reflected differently. I just think he enjoyed parodying and satirizing EVERYTHING. Part of this interview seems to confirm that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwgusiqi-vg

And yes, FZ was a bit harsh or even wrong about some of the topics he discussed in song and occasionally when dragging himself through mind-numbingly boring media interviews. But I don't believe he was wrong most of the time. In fact, I think he was DEAD ON most of the time. And that's one of the MANY reasons why I love his music and ALWAYS will. Who wrote/writes compositionally or lyrically better than FZ did? Who would even try to attempt to chart the new territories that FZ charted? Who had/has the mind to do or think of the things that FZ did? Well, as far as I'm concerned, the answer to those questions are...NOBODY.

And the humour (sexual or otherwise) is an essential ingredient and integral part of the musical world of Frank Zappa. That should NEVER be forgotten...

babaluma wrote:
Another more general site question how come there is not a "Songs" index on the home page? It would be cool to have a place for discussion of individual songs?


There's literally over 1,200 titles in the FZ catalogue. So, the answer to your question is self-explanatory... :wink:


And btw, welcome to the Z forum, babaluma! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:31 pm 
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All I know is that when it came time to indoctrinate my toddler in the Ways of Frank, I chose Peaches En Regalia over Do You Like My New Car?

BTW, remember when Frank's lyrics actually shocked many people? Well it's all different now. My kid's now almost 17. The shit he listens to is mostly rap, so Dynamo Hum and Broken Hearts Are For Assholes don't phase him in the least.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:49 pm 
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It's a pity people can get kicked off a good song because of sex lyrics, and it's a great thing to not-be a native English speaker, since I got to enjoy most of that kind of FZ-songs before I got to understand the words. For a long time I thought Jones Crusher was about celebrity crushes (which is about the silliest thing in the world and would deserve a good verbal trashing). Carolina Hardcore Ecstasy? Same thing. Ms Pinky? That too.
There's a number of exceptions of course: SEX (which I love), Dinah-Moe Humm, Penis Dimension (which is hilarious)... but I bet if you'd make a list of all the raunchy FZ-songs, I'd be quite surprised at a number of them!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:28 pm 
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babaluma wrote:
Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute. In the case of Easy Meat it seems a shame to have such lyrics when the actual music is so interesting. I know Zappa liked to bait the moral majority but do his misogynistic and homophobic lyrics cross the line into just being nasty for nastiness sake??


Frank always believed that words do not harm anyone, he has said as much in interviews. He would be shocked to see how sensitive most people are to words these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:41 pm 
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RogerDaltreysCape wrote:
babaluma wrote:
Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute. In the case of Easy Meat it seems a shame to have such lyrics when the actual music is so interesting. I know Zappa liked to bait the moral majority but do his misogynistic and homophobic lyrics cross the line into just being nasty for nastiness sake??


Frank always believed that words do not harm anyone, he has said as much in interviews. He would be shocked to see how sensitive most people are to words these days.

He also believe chain smoking was fine...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
BTW, remember when Frank's lyrics actually shocked many people? Well it's all different now. My kid's now almost 17. The shit he listens to is mostly rap, so Dynamo Hum and Broken Hearts Are For Assholes don't phase him in the least.


the other night i was driving my son back to his dorm and he was playing some hip-hop stuff on his ipod and i was thinking: "man, in a way frank was really ahead of his time with a lot of his sex-themed lyrics. "do you like my new car" seemed tame compared to what i was hearing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:09 pm 
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babaluma wrote:
Whats wrong with being sexy you may ask? Well I am interested to know what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?

For me there is a definite different feel to songs like Dinah-Moe Humm which seem more bawdy and harmlessly rude to genuinely unpleasant far such as Easy Meat and Teenage Prostitute.


interesting. i too have problems with some of frank's lyrics, but not with easy meat or especially teenage prostitute. to me, tp is more an observation of an unpleasant and disturbing condition to which frank seems empathetic.

i do sometimes wonder what was going through frank's head when he was writing some of that stuff.

my own personal philostophy on this subject is "if you don't like it or find it offensive, don't listen to it". that's what the skip button is for. but with me, in most cases the music wins out and i wind up listening anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:35 pm 
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i dont have a problem with them as long as they have interesting elements beyond the lyrics. most of the novelty stuff i ignore however.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Frank pushed the envelope, some of these lyrics were groundbreaking, some were silly or offensive. As much as I like FZ, his philosophy is what I adopted, and that makes me somewhat critical of him in the way I am critical of everything.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:43 am 
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I take issue with Frank's philosophy, as heard in "Bobby Brown", that any man who sides with women's liberation (or "dykes") is bound to become a cock sucking faggot at any moment. Pretty boneheaded for someone as smart as Frank.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:26 am 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:
I take issue with Frank's philosophy, as heard in "Bobby Brown", that any man who sides with women's liberation (or "dykes") is bound to become a cock sucking faggot at any moment. Pretty boneheaded for someone as smart as Frank.


He explains that on the Hammersmith Odeon release (that ugly turqoise thing with the free party hat): it's about three Swedish interviewers who'd brought their girlfriends along and did everything to make FZ look bad (thus make them look cool): it predicts where they are now. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:32 pm 
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babaluma wrote:
what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?


I faced this exact problem when I sang Dynah Moe Humm at a VFW karaoke to a crowd of angry butch lesbians.

Here: http://bensommer.com/blog/the-night-i-sang-dinah-moe-humm/

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:15 pm 
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I don't agree with everything Frank says in his songs, but I enjoy listening to him say it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:17 pm 
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bensommer wrote:
babaluma wrote:
what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?


I faced this exact problem when I sang Dynah Moe Humm at a VFW karaoke to a crowd of angry butch lesbians.

Here: http://bensommer.com/blog/the-night-i-sang-dinah-moe-humm/

Ben-That is awesome! Please stick around. You are a much needed infusion of fresh new talent on this here forum. :mrgreen:


Last edited by KUIII on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:27 am 
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bensommer wrote:
babaluma wrote:
what peoples opinions are on Zappa more overtly sexual/misogynistic tunes?


I faced this exact problem when I sang Dynah Moe Humm at a VFW karaoke to a crowd of angry butch lesbians.

Here: http://bensommer.com/blog/the-night-i-sang-dinah-moe-humm/

Very funny story... Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:52 am 
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IMHO the sexual contents are simply a reaction on the dishonesty of usual lyrics of popsongs, especially lovesongs. It is also an attack onto the whole system of the music industry on one side and us foolish young (or not so young anymore) consumers on the other side. I think FZ considered the usual naive consumer as a kind of victim of the music business. They not only take your money, they also infiltrate your minds in a serious way that finally makes u believe that shit. FZs words simlpy try to be a counterweight to this corrupted system and it is once more the usage of shock and provocation as artistic element. Of course he also might have been a sex-maniac himself.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:01 am 
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You have to put Frank's songs in perspective some of them was writen over 35 years ago, in that time it was hot & provocative but not today any more unless for new yougnster who discover the life.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:26 am 
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Of course things have changed today and lyrics can be more explicit than in those days. But still lots of things have'nt changed, there is still a well lubed entertainment industry that still produces stuff that supports escapism and prevents people from being responsible and political mature members of society. Government and industry still don't like people who are awake and ask questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:47 pm 
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I think it's pretty simple: Sex sells, and he used the money to do more of the things he wanted to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:59 pm 
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ursinator wrote:
IMHO the sexual contents are simply a reaction on the dishonesty of usual lyrics of popsongs, especially lovesongs. It is also an attack onto the whole system of the music industry on one side and us foolish young (or not so young anymore) consumers on the other side. I think FZ considered the usual naive consumer as a kind of victim of the music business. They not only take your money, they also infiltrate your minds in a serious way that finally makes u believe that shit. FZs words simlpy try to be a counterweight to this corrupted system and it is once more the usage of shock and provocation as artistic element. Of course he also might have been a sex-maniac himself.

Of course things have changed today and lyrics can be more explicit than in those days. But still lots of things have'nt changed, there is still a well lubed entertainment industry that still produces stuff that supports escapism and prevents people from being responsible and political mature members of society. Government and industry still don't like people who are awake and ask questions.


VERY good points.

calvin2hikers wrote:
I think it's pretty simple: Sex sells, and he used the money to do more of the things he wanted to do.


Today, that's definitely true. But back then, I don't think it was that simple. Because you have to remember that 35-40+ years ago, it wasn't standard procedure like it is now for artists to write and sing about sexually explicit topics. And hence, this was one of the many areas where FZ was WAY ahead of his time...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:46 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I think it's pretty simple: Sex sells, and he used the money to do more of the things he wanted to do.

Yer God Damn right! You Son of a Whore!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:04 am 
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I prefer the lyrics on his earlier albums, but is not offended in any way by the (often silly) sex songs. Musically, the later albums are less interesting, in my opinion, and that's the most important thing to me.


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