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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:09 am 
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ZutboF wrote:
Uncle Z wrote:
Just finished listening to these analog remasters:

GW: Sounds much better than the Ryko (from Best Buy online, no problems with the disc)
BF: Sounds great. Better separation. Makes the Ryko sound "flat".
ZA: Sounds just like the vinyl, but beefed up a little. Excellent.
ST: Ditto.
SD: Ditto.
SY: Sounds wonderful and makes the EMI CD sound thin. I must admit, I wasn't expecting it to sound this good.

I can't wait to hear the next batch.
plz guys try to write the whole album title i get an headache to figure out them :|


In my defense, I'm using acronyms of albums that have already been mentioned many times in this thread. Just use this as a reference:

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:14 am 
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Uncle Z wrote:
In my defense, I'm using acronyms of albums that have already been mentioned many times in this thread. Just use this as a reference:

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/



From my perspective, at least, I was never in doubt that the acronyms weren't "the official" acronyms. I just find the "shorter" ones annoying and cumbersome. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:46 am 
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Thinman wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
… i believe this to be incorrect. …

You mean, the digital U-Matic masters, that the "Digitally Remastered" vinyl series and CDs were made from, were not FZ created?
Could be, but doesn't make a difference to SPACEBROTHER's question.

BTW, I always thought, FZ hated the EMI CDs, because they used the U-Matic masters, that were created by him for the later vinyl edtions only, for their unauthorized CD editions.

Not sure.

Th.


I believe this to be correct.

When distribution of Barking Pumpkin switched to EMI, it was handled differently in the U.S. than Europe. In the U.S., all of the CBS-distributed stuff went out of print. In Europe, that stuff got re-released on EMI. What I think happened was that Frank had those LPs digitally remastered for release on EMI in Europe. He did not intend for those masters to be used on CDs, but EMI took it upon themselves to do just that. Apparently, the EMI contract allowed them to do it in Europe.

Keep in mind, EMI did not remix "Moggio". Frank did.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:00 am 
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dlokazip wrote:
When distribution of Barking Pumpkin switched to EMI, it was handled differently in the U.S. than Europe. In the U.S., all of the CBS-distributed stuff went out of print. In Europe, that stuff got re-released on EMI. What I think happened was that Frank had those LPs digitally remastered for release on EMI in Europe. He did not intend for those masters to be used on CDs, but EMI took it upon themselves to do just that. Apparently, the EMI contract allowed them to do it in Europe.

Keep in mind, EMI did not remix "Moggio". Frank did.


yes this is correct. i forgot the entire history of that shit.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:04 am 
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So, is this an example of innovation in Digital to Analog conversion techniques?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:15 pm 
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hull534 wrote:
Yes, but is it the 1998 Spencer Chrislu mix? Or a new better than 1998 remix? The original YAWYI CD release had a lot of problems, but in 1998 SC remixed it and it is a lot better.


None of the YAWYI CD's are remixed. They are all attempts at remastering the original mix.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:57 pm 
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O.K.
I loaded the first two tunes from disc one of SUPYG (Ryko and UM) into Logic Pro
and looked at the waveforms.
They are pretty close however the UM ones weren't as "hot". But not by much...
Also it looks like the index points go off slightly as the song progresses.
Could this be a "fix" on the speed (with the UM version?) I wonder....
I thought the 3 disc Ryko version corrected this as well...

Anyway
I also loaded in Debra Kadabra from BF (Ryko and UM) and Sam With the ......and took a look.
Debra looks very different! (which answers some questions...)
The Ryko is hotter by far which would explain the "big" impact of the Ryko Debra and the weird lifeless energy of the UM version
However the UM "Sam with the ....." is way hotter than the Ryko!
I feel when listening to both cd versions that the vocals specifically are sharper and hotter on the UM version.
This may explain why some of the backing instruments sometimes get "lost" in segments....

The new transfer is nice, don't get me wrong, but I don't know how close to the vinyl it really is.

I would post some pics but the Admin. doesn't seem to alow me saying something like the limit is reached or some such BS...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:41 pm 
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jeddy wrote:
I would post some pics but the Admin. doesn't seem to alow me saying something like the limit is reached or some such BS...


You can't host pics here. Try flickr.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:25 pm 
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jeddy wrote:
… However the UM "Sam with the ....." is way hotter than the Ryko! …

I think the track-to-track balance is not very good at some points. "Sam …" is way too loud compared to the surrounding tracks. On Chunga's Revenge, Twenty Small Cigars for a chamber music piece is way too loud in between the rock tracks (and this goes for The Clap, too.) I can't compare to the vinyl at the moment, but this may be something that could have been corrected during disc mastering for the original records. So if this is the case it should have been corrected this time, too.

It is possible that on the mastertapes each track is at maximum level and that the track-to-track balance was finetuned during disc mastering. Simply transferring the mastertapes to digital would be wrong in this case.

Can someone please compare the balance to the vinyl records? I would, but I can't, because my record player is not at hand at the moment.

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:43 am 
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I was amused when Windows Media wouldn't read the tracks for my new Joe's Garage CDs, but the stereo readout in our Prius WAS able to read it. And that thing almost never reads the CD info... :D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:00 am 
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The third 12 have arrived at my place. I'm finding the Dumb All Over fade followed by it leaping back in my face a little weird. I understand that this is due to sourcing it from the original LP mix and of course they couldn't have justifiably tweezed it around. I guess I'll get used to it, but it's weird. I haven't had much time for the rest just yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:51 am 
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It really leaps out at you doesn't it? This, like Uncle Meat, I did my own edit. I eliminated the fade as best I could. I appreaciate having a clone of the original master as I can always do my own edits.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:32 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
jeddy wrote:
I would post some pics but the Admin. doesn't seem to alow me saying something like the limit is reached or some such BS...


You can't host pics here.
And this sucks because cover pictures for instance could be hosted by the Zappa Family, and so we could avoid copyright issues. Just my 2 cents ...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:53 am 
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Well, i have a total of 0 of the new batch.
£15 at HMV, eh? Well, that's not a rip off.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Listening to Just Another Band from LA ... I've never heard the Ryko, but it sounds fantastic. Very warm and clear for a live album, especially one that is 40 years old. Can't believe I've never heard this before. I think I prefer it to Filmore East...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:03 pm 
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After A/B ing the shit out of the old and the new BONGO FURY I now think I will hang onto the Ryko version.
There is just way more impact to the music. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I think the added reverb
of the Ryko version adds something to the live performance feel.
The whole thing just seems "fuller" "bigger" more fleshed out.
The drums really needed it. They seem to need the extra weight that the reverb gives them.

I think a "live" event should be a bit "wet".
It feels more like a concert. (the P.A. system maybe?)

The clearity of the UM version is fine but it just doesn't feel as beefy and "live."


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:26 pm 
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jeddy wrote:
After A/B ing the shit out of the old and the new BONGO FURY...


Thanks for the effort, I appreciate it. I hate having doubles but will file it thus for my own review at a later date.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:35 pm 
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After having listened to many of the reissues for a while now (AF, HR, BWS, WRMF, CR, FE, JABFLA, WJ, GW, OS, A, BF, ZA, ST, SD, SY …) and trying the old ones again recently for comparison, I can't believe how shitty most of the old issues sound. Frank's decisions for his CD reissues sadly were a big failure in retrospective. What he did to his own classic albums was a big lapse of taste.

Th.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:27 am 
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People probably missed my point about the final twelve earlier. Given that we now know what the penultimate twelve are and that we know what ten of the final twelve are, there's only room for two more. Personally, if this is meant to be a new and up to date release of the core Zappa Catalogue, then surely the other two have to be CIV III and 200 Motels?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 am 
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I'm in total agreement that most of the Ryko releases sound like shit. But I'm not going to hold Frank responsible. I think everyone would agree that in hindsight we can easily look back and say, "What was he thinking?" But at that moment in time, it may have made sense and sounded "better" than before.

When I think of some music, or fashion movements of the past that I embraced and look back now...I can ask the same question. WTF?

I'll bet there's a few people on this board that have pictures of themselves with certain clothes on, or haircuts from the 70's or 80's that in hindsight are ridiculous. In the same way the musical choices of the past can be pretty stupid too. But at the time, it seemed the right thing to do. I can't hold Frank responsible for making adjustments he thought were right, and at the time made sense in context.

There are a lot of bands that put out "remastered" versions of their catalog initially on CD that are now going back and making adjustments to make them sound more like the warm analog we know and love. So Frank wasn't the only one who thought that the sound represented on the Ryko shit made sense.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:59 am 
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Val Valentin wrote:
… So Frank wasn't the only one who thought that the sound represented on the Ryko shit made sense.

Me too, BTW.

Th.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:30 am 
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Ya I guess he was always interested in "the latest recording developments"
so he probably was all into latest studio trends.

The eighties certainly had their "signature" studio sound!


I wonder how Dweezil felt about him tinkering with his back catalogue?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:43 pm 
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I'm thinking some of it is Zappa thinking all the music is one art object type thing. So punching up the drums on Money and reverbing everything to have the same type of sound sort of fits that mentality as well. Historically a bad choice, but a sensible one to someone who thinks of all the music as a living type work that's constantly growing.

Anyways, I've listend to both Zappa In New York and Studio Tan. I still love ZINY. I've only heard the previous ryko edition. I couldn't tell you if this sounds any different, it sounds good to me. Pretty clear you can tell in the mix where the songs cut to other shows. I don't remember the Ryko being that clear, with everything sounding like one concert.

Studio Tan is an album I only heard once and am mostly familiar with the material as presented on Lather. I enjoyed it. Peccary is no Billy The Mountain or Lumpy Gravy, but it's interesting enough. I got more out of what would of been side 2.

Onward to Sleep Dirt, an album I've never heard!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Ruz-El wrote:

Onward to Sleep Dirt, an album I've never heard!


be prepared to have your nuts blown clean off!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Val Valentin wrote:
I'm in total agreement that most of the Ryko releases sound like shit. But I'm not going to hold Frank responsible. I think everyone would agree that in hindsight we can easily look back and say, "What was he thinking?" But at that moment in time, it may have made sense and sounded "better" than before.

When I think of some music, or fashion movements of the past that I embraced and look back now...I can ask the same question. WTF?

I'll bet there's a few people on this board that have pictures of themselves with certain clothes on, or haircuts from the 70's or 80's that in hindsight are ridiculous. In the same way the musical choices of the past can be pretty stupid too. But at the time, it seemed the right thing to do. I can't hold Frank responsible for making adjustments he thought were right, and at the time made sense in context.

There are a lot of bands that put out "remastered" versions of their catalog initially on CD that are now going back and making adjustments to make them sound more like the warm analog we know and love. So Frank wasn't the only one who thought that the sound represented on the Ryko shit made sense.


On the one hand you don't want to hold Frank responsible, but on the other you thought that what he did made sense :?

Bottom line, in the context of the eighties all that 'modern' studio stuff was the new paradigm, and FZ was seduced by it. Now, we have a choice! Great!

I remember when the old Ryko stuff came out and G&S were doing a deal-about £700 for the entire catalogue. My thought at the time was "who the fuck can afford to drop that much money on 'remixes/remasters(whatever)'?
Now I'm of a generation that could, if I really wanted to.....

What happens in 4 years when the 50 year copyright expires, and anyone can repackage all this stuff again, for next to nothing?
Trust me, the ZFT have one eye on this phenomenon.

BTW I am busy hoovering up all the 50's/early 60's jazz stuff which gets released monthly, which takes advantage of this law.

(I don't need to be told that if I really wanted to I could probably hoover up all the Fz stuff I could handle for nothing from pirate bay or some such if I had no ethics at all)

Thoughts?


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