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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:48 am 
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From day one in 1976 the sound world of The Torture Never Stops on ZA reminded me a lot of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

It must be the auto-panned electric piano, but other things, too. Especially at that little moment at 6:24/6:25 I can't help myself and PF creeps in.

Can anybody follow me?

Th.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:56 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:59 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
no

No problem. Try again.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:48 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
From day one in 1976 the sound world of The Torture Never Stops on ZA reminded me a lot of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

It must be the auto-panned electric piano, but other things, too. Especially at that little moment at 6:24/6:25 I can't help myself and PF creeps in.

Can anybody follow me?

Th.


i've never made that connection but yes, i can hear a similarity especially starting at around 6:30 of the conclusion of soycd (the part after the song "wish you were here").

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:33 pm 
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mmmmm leave it with me, I'll get back to you...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:11 am 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
Thinman wrote:
From day one in 1976 the sound world of The Torture Never Stops on ZA reminded me a lot of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

It must be the auto-panned electric piano, but other things, too. Especially at that little moment at 6:24/6:25 I can't help myself and PF creeps in.

Can anybody follow me?

Th.


i've never made that connection but yes, i can hear a similarity especially starting at around 6:30 of the conclusion of soycd (the part after the song "wish you were here").
I can't imagine this at all so now I've got to do some comparison. And you're serious? I guess so...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:23 pm 
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I doubt that FZ deliberately sampled SOYCD for Torture. He started playing Torture on tour in '75 beginning with Captain Beefheart's rendition at the Armadillo in June '75 (YCDTOSA Vol. 4). And Floyd released Wish You Were Here in November '75.

Now I do know however that FZ frequently sampled 'Chatanooga Choo-Choo' in several live renditions of Torture. :D

By the way, did the Beatles steal from Deep Purple or was it the other way around? 'A Day in the Life' & 'Hush' have the same crescendo chords....and I've known that for years (both were released in 1967).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:18 pm 
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CityHallFred wrote:
Now I do know however that FZ frequently sampled 'Chatanooga Choo-Choo' in several live renditions of Torture. :D


Rightfully so. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:55 am 
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I never said that FZ "sampled", stole from or was influenced by PF. It is and always was just my personal thing when listening to TTNS from ZA, that there are similarities in certain sounds and short moments because Wish You Were Here and ZA happened roughly in the same time frame of studio production.

Th.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:29 am 
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I don't know about all that but I discovered an interesting similarity recently between the eagles desperado album and pink floyd's later sound. I am not a fan of either of these groups but I think pink floyd may have jacked the eagles' perticular success formula. It happens quite a bit, you hear a band make it and 5 other bands have a similar if not identical sound the next week.

case in point when the easy allstars did dub side of the moon it became the largest selling reggae album of all time, topping Bob Marley and everybody. So when a group of young guys from baltimore found that out, and heard the easy all stars' version of sgt pepper's lonely hearts club they formed a group called yellow dubmarine doing all beatles in a reggae format! They are actually good at it if beatles done reggae is your thing. In performance they opened with a bunch of early beatles; ska style, and it made sense to hear that material done with a that kind of energy. They released their version of abbey road and they said their next will most likely be revolver.

any other obvious cases of this kind of formulaic sound lifting? styx /yes etc..

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:26 pm 
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muziko wrote:
I don't know about all that but I discovered an interesting similarity recently between the eagles desperado album and pink floyd's later sound.
It happens quite a bit, you hear a band make it and 5 other bands have a similar if not identical sound the next week.


The song i think sounds most like Desperado is FZ/GD Uncle Remus released just after :P

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Actually, I have reliable information that FZ appeared suddenly one day during the recording of WYWH, back in 1974. The most shocking aspect of this was that no one in Pink Floyd recognized him at first stare! They all wept privately later on and so WYWH is actually a concept album made for the absence feeling left in PF because of FZ's departure from Pink Floyd after their Amougies psychedelic orgy...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:51 pm 
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e. anderson of j.tull said that hotel california was a cord progression off an jt tune. in an interveiw i heard .


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:43 am 
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CityHallFred wrote:
I doubt that FZ deliberately sampled SOYCD for Torture. He started playing Torture on tour in '75 beginning with Captain Beefheart's rendition at the Armadillo in June '75 (YCDTOSA Vol. 4). And Floyd released Wish You Were Here in November '75.

Now I do know however that FZ frequently sampled 'Chatanooga Choo-Choo' in several live renditions of Torture. :D

By the way, did the Beatles steal from Deep Purple or was it the other way around? 'A Day in the Life' & 'Hush' have the same crescendo chords....and I've known that for years (both were released in 1967).
Let's see: Beatles, 1967 ("A Day In The Life" bridge, Lennon singing "Ah, ah, ah, ah........." Same notes as Deep Purple's "Hush" Na, na, na, na na, etc., but I think "Hush" was 1968.) Either way, I wonder who both ripped it off from?)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:16 pm 
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One day someone will make an app that enables you to input a melody to find out where it was stolen from


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:21 am 
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This thread is ridiculous. There are common chord progressions that the human ear finds pleasing. Shit gets repeated, shit.

"This has all happened before and it will happen again."

http://youtu.be/8Af372EQLck

Has everybody trained themselves in Pachelbel or do they just like the way it sounds? I'll go with the latter. Sure rock includes obvious rip-offs but fucking eh. If something sounds good, it just sounds good.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:21 am 
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People sue and win for this all the time... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:35 pm 
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treadmill wrote:
e. anderson of j.tull said that hotel california was a cord progression off an jt tune. in an interveiw i heard .


"we used to know" from the album stand up.

Interviewer: Your song “We Used To Know” is certainly an influence on “Hotel California.” Can you talk about that?

Ian: It was a piece of music that we were playing around the time… I believe it was late ’71, maybe early ’72 when we were on tour and we had a support band who had been signed up for the tour, and subsequently, before the tour began, had a hit single. The song, I believe, called “Take It Easy.” And they were indeed the Eagles. We didn’t interact with them very much because they were countrified laid back polite rock, and we were a bit wacky and English and doing weird stuff. And I don’t think they liked us, and we didn’t much like them. There was no communication, really, at all. Just a polite observance of each other’s space when it came to sound checks and show time. But they probably heard us play the song, because that would have featured in the sets back then, and maybe it was just something they kind of picked up on subconsciously, and introduced that chord sequence into their famous song “Hotel California” sometime later. But, you know, it’s not plagiarism. It’s just the same chord sequence. It’s in a different time signature, different key, different context. And it’s a very, very fine song that they wrote, so I can’t feel anything other than a sense of happiness for their sake. And I feel flattered that they came across that chord sequence. But it’s difficult to find a chord sequence that hasn’t been used, and hasn’t been the focus of lots of pieces of music. It’s harmonic progression is almost a mathematical certainty you’re gonna crop up with the same thing sooner or later if you sit strumming a few chords on a guitar.

There’s certainly no bitterness or any sense of plagiarism attached to my view on it, although I do sometimes allude, in a joking way, to accepting it as a kind of tribute. It’s a bit like this tribute Rolex that I’m wearing.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:48 pm 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
"we used to know" from the album stand up.

Interviewer: Your song “We Used To Know” is certainly an influence on “Hotel California.” Can you talk about that?

Ian: It was a piece of music that we were playing around the time… I believe it was late ’71, maybe early ’72 when we were on tour and we had a support band who had been signed up for the tour, and subsequently, before the tour began, had a hit single. The song, I believe, called “Take It Easy.” And they were indeed the Eagles. We didn’t interact with them very much because they were countrified laid back polite rock, and we were a bit wacky and English and doing weird stuff. And I don’t think they liked us, and we didn’t much like them. There was no communication, really, at all. Just a polite observance of each other’s space when it came to sound checks and show time. But they probably heard us play the song, because that would have featured in the sets back then, and maybe it was just something they kind of picked up on subconsciously, and introduced that chord sequence into their famous song “Hotel California” sometime later. But, you know, it’s not plagiarism. It’s just the same chord sequence. It’s in a different time signature, different key, different context. And it’s a very, very fine song that they wrote, so I can’t feel anything other than a sense of happiness for their sake. And I feel flattered that they came across that chord sequence. But it’s difficult to find a chord sequence that hasn’t been used, and hasn’t been the focus of lots of pieces of music. It’s harmonic progression is almost a mathematical certainty you’re gonna crop up with the same thing sooner or later if you sit strumming a few chords on a guitar.

There’s certainly no bitterness or any sense of plagiarism attached to my view on it, although I do sometimes allude, in a joking way, to accepting it as a kind of tribute. It’s a bit like this tribute Rolex that I’m wearing.

I can't believe Ian Anderson thinks We Used To Know was the first song to use that chord progression.

I hate to defend the goddman Eagles, and I strongly dislike Hotel California, but Don Felder, who wrote all of the music for Hotel California, was not even in the band back in 1972.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:57 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
sleeping in a jar wrote:
"we used to know" from the album stand up.

Interviewer: Your song “We Used To Know” is certainly an influence on “Hotel California.” Can you talk about that?

Ian: It was a piece of music that we were playing around the time… I believe it was late ’71, maybe early ’72 when we were on tour and we had a support band who had been signed up for the tour, and subsequently, before the tour began, had a hit single. The song, I believe, called “Take It Easy.” And they were indeed the Eagles. We didn’t interact with them very much because they were countrified laid back polite rock, and we were a bit wacky and English and doing weird stuff. And I don’t think they liked us, and we didn’t much like them. There was no communication, really, at all. Just a polite observance of each other’s space when it came to sound checks and show time. But they probably heard us play the song, because that would have featured in the sets back then, and maybe it was just something they kind of picked up on subconsciously, and introduced that chord sequence into their famous song “Hotel California” sometime later. But, you know, it’s not plagiarism. It’s just the same chord sequence. It’s in a different time signature, different key, different context. And it’s a very, very fine song that they wrote, so I can’t feel anything other than a sense of happiness for their sake. And I feel flattered that they came across that chord sequence. But it’s difficult to find a chord sequence that hasn’t been used, and hasn’t been the focus of lots of pieces of music. It’s harmonic progression is almost a mathematical certainty you’re gonna crop up with the same thing sooner or later if you sit strumming a few chords on a guitar.

There’s certainly no bitterness or any sense of plagiarism attached to my view on it, although I do sometimes allude, in a joking way, to accepting it as a kind of tribute. It’s a bit like this tribute Rolex that I’m wearing.

I can't believe Ian Anderson thinks We Used To Know was the first song to use that chord progression.

I hate to defend the goddman Eagles, and I strongly dislike Hotel California, but Don Felder, who wrote all of the music for Hotel California, was not even in the band back in 1972.

How about Don Henley and Glenn Frey...they shared the writing credits for that song.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Don Felder had all of the music, including chords, lead guitar and bass, recorded before he played it for Henley and Frey, who liked it and added the lyrics and vocal melody. Mostly Henley.

But I prefer JT to the Eagles. I don't like The Eagles. With the exception of Joe Walsh.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
From day one in 1976 the sound world of The Torture Never Stops on ZA reminded me a lot of Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond.
...
Th.


I doubt it.

And I specially doubt it that Frank gave a shit about what anyone else was doing with their music!

For more than a year, PF was using "Gotta Be Crazy", "Raving and Drooling" and one other song, as part of the "Dark Side of the Moon" shows, and it was in a whole bunch of bootlegs and you could not miss it.

I do believe, but can not substantiate, that it was going to be their next album, but that record executives did not like the material and wanted something closer to DSOTM ... which the whole album "Wish You Were Here" ... WAS! To make matters more obvious, the cover work was very pretty, but downright vicious and all that was left was the Monty Python fist with a pointed finger! And if that is not enough ... "Welcome to the Machine" is an obvious comment that they were now a part of the machine, and like the album cover and art design, had to agree/compromise a few times ... ohhh, if you get tired of this, you can get Mr. Congeniality and opinion Roy Harper to sing you "Have a Cigar" and tell you ... hey man ... we're now the lords and we got the money ... have a cigar and shut up! Enjoy your cars. Enjoy your money. Enjoy your .... and then the rest of the album was almost a complete copy of DSOTM.

In many ways, SOYCD is very simple and easy to play .... and was probably put together in a day or two with the easiest of lyrics. Roger had his say, and David used to be one of Syd's teachers, and I'm pretty sure they both worked the lyrics to go with the guitar.


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