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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Quilt wrote:
What happens in 4 years when the 50 year copyright expires, and anyone can repackage all this stuff again, for next to nothing?

Thoughts?
Well 4 years be 2016 50 years after 1966 Freakout! which got new copyright :mrgreen: Tick TOCK

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:24 pm 
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cleon wrote:
Quilt wrote:
What happens in 4 years when the 50 year copyright expires, and anyone can repackage all this stuff again, for next to nothing?

Thoughts?
Well 4 years be 2016 50 years after 1966 Freakout! which got new copyright :mrgreen: Tick TOCK


Exactly!

Of course, to get the Vaulternative stuff etc we'd have to wait 50 years from....now!
I will have forgotten who the fuck FZ was by then so who cares, but it is a thought.
FZ in the same category as the grey-haired old bastards that have ben smelling funny for a long time now.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:22 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Ruz-El wrote:

Onward to Sleep Dirt, an album I've never heard!


be prepared to have your nuts blown clean off!


Consider them blown


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:19 pm 
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After years of FZ on (snap crackle pop) vinyl and (dolby pillow on the speakers nr) cassette, with the advent of the CD and subsequent Ryko releases I am not ashamed to admit becoming a Ryko psycho. I thought the stuff sounded fanfuckingtastic compared with the earlier formats available to me. Now with the advent of the, in some cases, tweezed 2012 re re re releases I'm not convinced that this is not just a cynical FZ fan exploting revenue gathering exercise. Admittedly I could be missing something as these days most of my listening is taking place on a reasonable in car audio system, or via the computer with recently upgraded 200W (in preperation for the 2012 re re re etc) Logitech speaker system. The PC sound has most definitely improved, FZ has never sounded soooo good on my PC. As an FZ fan I am of course buying all the "new" 2012 stuff. Please don't kill me, but so far the first couple of dozen 2012's I have received haven't quite lived up to the hype (or blown my nuts off) yes there are audible differences here and there but the tweezer operators have not exactly reinvented the wheel....

In fairness and the name of science I've taken a week off work to specifically embark on some quality time with my almost marriage ending home audio $y$tem in an attempt to prove myself wrong.
I still can't wait to receive the balance of the 2012 catalogue to continue this research.

Note: My ears are at least 54 years old, and have suffered high db audio abuse from an early age.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
After years of FZ on (snap crackle pop) vinyl and (dolby pillow on the speakers nr) cassette, with the advent of the CD and subsequent Ryko releases I am not ashamed to admit becoming a Ryko psycho. I thought the stuff sounded fanfuckingtastic compared with the earlier formats available to me. Now with the advent of the, in some cases, tweezed 2012 re re re releases I'm not convinced that this is not just a cynical FZ fan exploting revenue gathering exercise. Admittedly I could be missing something as these days most of my listening is taking place on a reasonable in car audio system, or via the computer with recently upgraded 200W (in preperation for the 2012 re re re etc) Logitech speaker system. The PC sound has most definitely improved, FZ has never sounded soooo good on my PC. As an FZ fan I am of course buying all the "new" 2012 stuff. Please don't kill me, but so far the first couple of dozen 2012's I have received haven't quite lived up to the hype (or blown my nuts off) yes there are audible differences here and there but the tweezer operators have not exactly reinvented the wheel.....


First of all, about half of the first dozen are not remastered. Educate yourself as to which ones are new and which ones are the same as before. Second of all, the titles that are remastered are MASSIVE improvements. The differences are not subtle. The only title I've been hearing complaints about is "Bongo Fury", because the old CD was so beefed up, some people cannot get used to hearing what the original tapes really sound like.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:

First of all, about half of the first dozen are not remastered. Educate yourself as to which ones are new and which ones are the same as before. Second of all, the titles that are remastered are MASSIVE improvements. The differences are not subtle. The only title I've been hearing complaints about is "Bongo Fury", because the old CD was so beefed up, some people cannot get used to hearing what the original tapes really sound like.


Personally, I think Bongo Fury sounds fantastic. The Ryko is pure crap in comparison with the 2012 remaster.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:08 pm 
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zomby'sprog wrote:
Wen D. Carlos wrote:

First of all, about half of the first dozen are not remastered. Educate yourself as to which ones are new and which ones are the same as before. Second of all, the titles that are remastered are MASSIVE improvements. The differences are not subtle. The only title I've been hearing complaints about is "Bongo Fury", because the old CD was so beefed up, some people cannot get used to hearing what the original tapes really sound like.


Personally, I think Bongo Fury sounds fantastic. The Ryko is pure crap in comparison with the 2012 remaster.


Quite frankly, I question the sanity and taste of anybody who prefers the old Rykos for any of the re-done titles.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:
zomby'sprog wrote:
Wen D. Carlos wrote:

First of all, about half of the first dozen are not remastered. Educate yourself as to which ones are new and which ones are the same as before. Second of all, the titles that are remastered are MASSIVE improvements. The differences are not subtle. The only title I've been hearing complaints about is "Bongo Fury", because the old CD was so beefed up, some people cannot get used to hearing what the original tapes really sound like.


Personally, I think Bongo Fury sounds fantastic. The Ryko is pure crap in comparison with the 2012 remaster.


Quite frankly, I question the sanity and taste of anybody who prefers the old Rykos for any of the re-done titles.


I guess if you've heard it a certain way for a long time, you might not like a *change*. Who knows? Count me in as a fan of the 2012 remasters. I do keep the Rykos, though. I'm not sure why.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Quilt wrote:
Val Valentin wrote:
I'm in total agreement that most of the Ryko releases sound like shit. But I'm not going to hold Frank responsible. I think everyone would agree that in hindsight we can easily look back and say, "What was he thinking?" But at that moment in time, it may have made sense and sounded "better" than before.

When I think of some music, or fashion movements of the past that I embraced and look back now...I can ask the same question. WTF?

I'll bet there's a few people on this board that have pictures of themselves with certain clothes on, or haircuts from the 70's or 80's that in hindsight are ridiculous. In the same way the musical choices of the past can be pretty stupid too. But at the time, it seemed the right thing to do. I can't hold Frank responsible for making adjustments he thought were right, and at the time made sense in context.

There are a lot of bands that put out "remastered" versions of their catalog initially on CD that are now going back and making adjustments to make them sound more like the warm analog we know and love. So Frank wasn't the only one who thought that the sound represented on the Ryko shit made sense.


On the one hand you don't want to hold Frank responsible, but on the other you thought that what he did made sense :?

Bottom line, in the context of the eighties all that 'modern' studio stuff was the new paradigm, and FZ was seduced by it. Now, we have a choice! Great!

I remember when the old Ryko stuff came out and G&S were doing a deal-about £700 for the entire catalogue. My thought at the time was "who the fuck can afford to drop that much money on 'remixes/remasters(whatever)'?
Now I'm of a generation that could, if I really wanted to.....

What happens in 4 years when the 50 year copyright expires, and anyone can repackage all this stuff again, for next to nothing?
Trust me, the ZFT have one eye on this phenomenon.

BTW I am busy hoovering up all the 50's/early 60's jazz stuff which gets released monthly, which takes advantage of this law.

(I don't need to be told that if I really wanted to I could probably hoover up all the Fz stuff I could handle for nothing from pirate bay or some such if I had no ethics at all)

Thoughts?


Since you ended your sentence about my statement with a question mark, I will try to explain. I don't hold Frank responsible for the CURRENT way the Ryko releases are being assessed. I hold him responsible for the way they sounded to him at the time, which I'm sure sounded great an made sense at THAT time.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:13 am 
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Wen D Carlos - I question the sanity of anyone who can forgive a "record company" who takes an album that has been extended with worthwhile extra material, and reissues it without the extra material.
Here's my argument again: Their job - anybody's job when they gain access to a body of such work - is to preserve audio history - augment it, maybe, but never rewrite it. And do so not "for profit" but "because it's there...and has meant something to somebody".
The artist's (or their inheritors') preferences are almost immaterial from the moment the material is shared with other people, who immediately invest it with their own layers of (in?)significance.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:38 am 
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Holy shit! Gray_Ghost needs to change his username to Deaf_Douche

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:29 am 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
… In fairness and the name of science I've taken a week off work to specifically embark on some quality time with my almost marriage ending home audio $y$tem in an attempt to prove myself wrong. …

What about those albums that have been sourced from the analog masters (begin with Chunga's Revenge)? If you still hear only minor differences on your advanced home system then you should get your ears checked. You definitely have a major hearing problem. Seriously.

Thinman

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:57 am 
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I don't mind the UM Bongo Fury I just think I will be keeping both versions of this cd.
The Ryko sounds full and more impacting than the new version.

That's all
No biggie....


Incidently....I realize TinselTown Rebellion was remastered from the analogue source
tapes however I thought it was the first album Frank recorded digitally.
After he upgraded his studio to digital.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:24 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Gray_Ghost wrote:
… In fairness and the name of science I've taken a week off work to specifically embark on some quality time with my almost marriage ending home audio $y$tem in an attempt to prove myself wrong. …

What about those albums that have been sourced from the analog masters (begin with Chunga's Revenge)? If you still hear only minor differences on your advanced home system then you should get your ears checked. You definitely have a major hearing problem. Seriously.

Thinman


Yeah, Gray Ghost - I'd recommend some hydrogen peroxide resting in your ear canals followed by the swathing of some Q-Tips.... there's no way you can't make out any major differences on Chunga's, for example.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:34 am 
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jeddy wrote:
I don't mind the UM Bongo Fury I just think I will be keeping both versions of this cd.
The Ryko sounds full and more impacting than the new version.

That's all
No biggie....


Incidently....I realize TinselTown Rebellion was remastered from the analogue source
tapes however I thought it was the first album Frank recorded digitally.
After he upgraded his studio to digital.

Nope 1984 take a listen too DW on YCDTOSA Vol3 That is the year FZ go Digital24 track(winter tour)Sony,he did a little digital recording 1980 equipment rented of Sony 2 Track though.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:43 am 
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The switch to digital took place in 1983 a few months after the release of Man From Utopia and LSO 1.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:55 am 
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Proof Please
on the HDYWAMLM Vol 3 is digital JULY 1984 so where is it wrote any different?
how come Bob Stone done Such a good job on YCDTOSA vols :?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:11 am 
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http://www.zappafrenzy.com/maxisingles/ ... gital.html


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:23 am 
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Bullshit MFU is not digital try again :D

Why is it then TPS recorded Digital only Feb-april 1984 and January recordings Analog,
i know why because it was then Digital was used The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Consort(more like Sony now Mobile And Studio)
Them or Us I say too my ears that is where Analog stopped and like the new Masters 2012 they stop on there.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:45 pm 
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I believe that "Ship" was the last all-analog album and "Man From Utopia" was the first digital album, though parts of it started as analog.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Check the link I posted above to the cover of "Barking Pumpkin Goes Digital." FZ's liner notes mention that Man From Utopia was "recently serviced to [radio stations] in the analog format" but that he "re-tweezed" two songs with digital equipment for this EP, and that LSO 1 would be the first digital album.

Of course, most of his rock albums from the 80's still used material from the 1982 tour or earlier that had been recorded analog.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:08 pm 
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I did now p 8) prove :|

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:23 am 
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jeddy wrote:
After A/B ing the shit out of the old and the new BONGO FURY I now think I will hang onto the Ryko version.
There is just way more impact to the music. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I think the added reverb
of the Ryko version adds something to the live performance feel.
The whole thing just seems "fuller" "bigger" more fleshed out.
The drums really needed it. They seem to need the extra weight that the reverb gives them.

I think a "live" event should be a bit "wet".
It feels more like a concert. (the P.A. system maybe?)

The clearity of the UM version is fine but it just doesn't feel as beefy and "live."

The Armadillo was a smaller venue to my knowledge. There is no need to make the live recording sound like it was happening in a big arena or stadium.

Ruz-El wrote:
… Anyways, I've listend to both Zappa In New York and Studio Tan. I still love ZINY. I've only heard the previous ryko edition. I couldn't tell you if this sounds any different, it sounds good to me. Pretty clear you can tell in the mix where the songs cut to other shows. I don't remember the Ryko being that clear, with everything sounding like one concert.

Studio Tan is an album I only heard once and am mostly familiar with the material as presented on Lather. I enjoyed it. …

Did you never listen to the original ZINY mixes as presented on Läther and the original vinyl? The CD remix is almost unlistenable in comparison. And some of the guitar overdubs were always good (Sofa, The Purple Lagoon), but the overdubs on Punky's Whips are way too much.

Th.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:15 am 
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Thinman wrote:

Ruz-El wrote:
… Anyways, I've listend to both Zappa In New York and Studio Tan. I still love ZINY. I've only heard the previous ryko edition. I couldn't tell you if this sounds any different, it sounds good to me. Pretty clear you can tell in the mix where the songs cut to other shows. I don't remember the Ryko being that clear, with everything sounding like one concert.

Studio Tan is an album I only heard once and am mostly familiar with the material as presented on Lather. I enjoyed it. …

Did you never listen to the original ZINY mixes as presented on Läther and the original vinyl? The CD remix is almost unlistenable in comparison. And some of the guitar overdubs were always good (Sofa, The Purple Lagoon), but the overdubs on Punky's Whips are way too much.

Th.


I do have Läther and have listened to it, but not close enough to do a comparison. I'll trust your ears on that one. I guess since my only exposure to ZINY is the ryko I'm not noticing anything as "off". Based on how all the analogue mixes are sounding on these discs, I don't doubt that the vinyl sounds much better. Maybe we'll get a Project/Object set of the Läther material with an analogue ZINY included.

Speaking of which, I see what everyone was saying about Sheik. Sounds AMAZING. Another album I've only known from the ryko and hence had no idea how much better it could sound. Loved it, despite hating the odd song on it. I see this going back into regular listening rotation.

Orchsetral Favorites is a bit meh. It's a first time listen for me. Didn't really do anything for me at all. I prefer the LSO versions (and others) for the material on this one. Strictly Genteel is beautiful regardless.


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