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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Up until now I thought I was making a point that was obvious to everyone. The reason the ZFT can't do any editing of the vinyl masters is because none of them is Frank Zappa. If they tried, they wouldn't get vilified for the quality of their efforts, which could for all intents and purposes turn out to be marvellous, but, they would get slammed for having done so at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:52 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
Ruz-El wrote:
Oh yeah for sure, I wouldn't want any music cut to eliminate the fades. On Tinsel most of the fadeouts are crowd noise and you're right. If they cut and smashed the tracks together it would be just as jarring I suppose.



The "FZ 25" Ryko 1990 version of Tinseltown has the applause endings of For The Young Sophisticate and Pick Me I'm Clean edited out, IMO a good decision. I guess for this new series they wanted to be true to the vinyl version.


If you listen closely, very little has been edited out; the songs have been superimposed overtop of the applause on the Rykos. A/B the Ryko with the UME and you'll see what I mean.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:08 pm 
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zomby'sprog wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
Ruz-El wrote:
Oh yeah for sure, I wouldn't want any music cut to eliminate the fades. On Tinsel most of the fadeouts are crowd noise and you're right. If they cut and smashed the tracks together it would be just as jarring I suppose.



The "FZ 25" Ryko 1990 version of Tinseltown has the applause endings of For The Young Sophisticate and Pick Me I'm Clean edited out, IMO a good decision. I guess for this new series they wanted to be true to the vinyl version.


If you listen closely, very little has been edited out; the songs have been superimposed overtop of the applause on the Rykos. A/B the Ryko with the UME and you'll see what I mean.


You're referring to the 1998 Ryko where the album sides were crossfaded together. I was referring to the 1990 and 95 Ryko versions.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:32 pm 
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OH, okay. I forgot that there were two Ryko versions out there. Sorry! As a new Zappa fan, I have only owned the 98 version.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:38 pm 
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zomby'sprog wrote:
OH, okay. I forgot that there were two Ryko versions out there. Sorry! As a new Zappa fan, I have only owned the 98 version.


Don't EVER let it happen again. EVER!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:57 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
zomby'sprog wrote:
OH, okay. I forgot that there were two Ryko versions out there. Sorry! As a new Zappa fan, I have only owned the 98 version.


Don't EVER let it happen again. EVER!!!!


LOL, There will be NO forgetting of old versions on the Zappa forum! That sort of nonsense is inexcusable! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:54 am 
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Hello!

I'm new here, from Sweden. Yes, we have Zappa fans there as well.

I'm a big Zappa-fan, especially of his work from the middle of the 60's, starting with Freak Out! to the late 70's.

Just bought four of the new remasters: Absolutely Free, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Hot Rats and Grand Wazoo, and they sound really amazing, especially GW. It's a shame though, that albums like FO, WOIIFTM and UM are not remastered from the analog tapes.

But hey: is MOFO and Lumpy Money worth getting? Is it better sound on those suckers than on the shitty RYKO-discs?

I'm thinking about buying Greasy Love Songs, I love those songs, but the current edition of CWRATJ sucks ass. Worth it?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Now ,I'm not trying to be weird here.....BUT....I've loved all of the 2012 remasters,....EXCEPT I just got a copy of We're Only In It For The Money and it sounds terrible. Add to that that it has another edit....this time in the "whispered comments"....where there used to be said...."...and tomorrow I get to work with the Velvet Underground,which is as shitty a group as Frank Zappa's group..." there is now nothing,except the voice going right to ".....hello Frank Zappa....."!! Why edit the VU reference?

I feel that there are some really weird versions of the songs all throughout the CD's play....some missing "recorder" and others lacking guitar parts during the songs......but worst of all is the major compression of "Nasal Retentive..." and "Chrome Plated ...." that literally cuts-off the natural sounds of the percussion (like cymbals ,and others sounds the noise reduction mistakes for "hiss") and ,at first, I thought that there was some sort of tape "drop-out" problem. But no it's some really heavy noise reduction sort of like Dolby"C" used to screw sounds up.

I'm sure glad I still have my old LPs.....because this one sounds messed up to my ears. Also ,is this the only CD that has no note on who did the "mastering" ,or am I missing something?

I listened in headphones....so I hope all of this was not due to some problem with them.....but all the other discs sounded great in the same set......so.......


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:56 pm 
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I thought money sounded weird too, but I'm so used to the Ryko one with the over dubs that I know I'm in the wrong on it. Was the Velvet Underground bit part of the original release? I can't remember if it's on the mono version ( I think it was mono) on the Lumpy/Money set.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Ruz-El wrote:
I thought money sounded weird too, but I'm so used to the Ryko one with the over dubs that I know I'm in the wrong on it. Was the Velvet Underground bit part of the original release? I can't remember if it's on the mono version ( I think it was mono) on the Lumpy/Money set.



I don't recall it not being on the Lumpy/Money set. But I may be wrong there,....but it was on the original release,and that's what gets me here. I don't think Frank would want another "edit" after all the old 1960's ones sent him off from his Verve contract. The main thing that bugs me on the new cd is that "Nasal Retentive..." and "Chrome Plated..." are so badly served. I mean Frank sat there and made razor splices and filtered all those sounds so they had specific "envelopes" of attack and release for months on end (I'm sure)......now some noise reduction makes them all clipped-off and dull sounding. I don't know.... maybe most folks think it's all noise ,"so who cares.....?" But I thought those pieces were pretty amazing (especially for all the work put into them).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 pm 
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penguini wrote:
Now ,I'm not trying to be weird here.....BUT....I've loved all of the 2012 remasters,....EXCEPT I just got a copy of We're Only In It For The Money and it sounds terrible. Add to that that it has another edit....this time in the "whispered comments"....where there used to be said...."...and tomorrow I get to work with the Velvet Underground,which is as shitty a group as Frank Zappa's group..." there is now nothing,except the voice going right to ".....hello Frank Zappa....."!! Why edit the VU reference?

I feel that there are some really weird versions of the songs all throughout the CD's play....some missing "recorder" and others lacking guitar parts during the songs......but worst of all is the major compression of "Nasal Retentive..." and "Chrome Plated ...." that literally cuts-off the natural sounds of the percussion (like cymbals ,and others sounds the noise reduction mistakes for "hiss") and ,at first, I thought that there was some sort of tape "drop-out" problem. But no it's some really heavy noise reduction sort of like Dolby"C" used to screw sounds up.

I'm sure glad I still have my old LPs.....because this one sounds messed up to my ears. Also ,is this the only CD that has no note on who did the "mastering" ,or am I missing something?

I listened in headphones....so I hope all of this was not due to some problem with them.....but all the other discs sounded great in the same set......so.......

WOIIFTM 2012 is no new remaster. It is identical to the 1995 Ryko version. Read some details about that version here: http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/v ... tml#1995cd

And: I'm still not conviced that all the stuff about Verve having done the censoring is true. I think it could be all Frank's work and it was a marketing trick.

Th.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Holy shit! It seems that a new batch of mini LPs is planned to be released on November 28th.
According to https://www.cdbanq.com/search.asp?keywo ... &search=GO :

Frank Zappa & The Mothers Of Invention - Freak Out! (CD+STICKER) [Japan LTD Mini LP SHM-CD] UICY-75350
  • Japanese-only limited edition Mini LP SHM-CD.
  • Packaged in mini-lp cardboard sleeve, replica of original vinyl LP jacket.
  • Digitally remastered with superior sound quality.
  • Complete obi-strip & Japanese introductory/lyrics sheets included.
  • SHM-CD (Super High Material CD), fully compatible with standard CD players, enables greater transparency, more open sound, lower distortion and better resolution that leads to more sound details.
  • SHM-CD achieves higher quality audio through the use of a polycarbonate plastic with improved transparency derived from LCD display manufacturing technologies.

What is SHM-CD?
Possibly some sort of marketing technology for Audiophiles (see http://www.wikizic.org/SHM-CD-%28Super- ... t-Disc%29/).

edit : Another source (in Japanese) confirming the release, SHM-CD and papersleeve : https://www.jbook.co.jp/p/p.aspx/4445930/s/
"初回生産限定/SHM-CD仕様/紙ジャケット仕様"


Last edited by Maroual on Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:09 pm 
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And I forgot to mention, the European catalog numbers are different
I only noticed yesterday that I own US as well as EU copies :shock:

I started to report these there => http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Freak_Out!#Versions
And will update the next pages when I can.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Maroual wrote:
… [*]SHM-CD (Super High Material CD), fully compatible with standard CD players, enables greater transparency, more open sound, lower distortion and better resolution that leads to more sound details.
[*]SHM-CD achieves higher quality audio through the use of a polycarbonate plastic with improved transparency derived from LCD display manufacturing technologies.[/list]

What is SHM-CD?
Possibly some sort of marketing technology for Audiophiles (see http://www.wikizic.org/SHM-CD-%28Super- ... t-Disc%29/). …

LOL. Bullshit IMO. A CD contains digital data only, no "sound". The digital data is converted to sound afterwards. I can't imagine the plastic material making any difference to regular CDs. Either the data is readable or not. It was the same marketing bullshit with those gold CDs years ago.

Th.

P.S.: I read some reviews about SHM-CDs in the meantime. Either the authors copy the industry's marketing speech completely or they compare regular CDs and SHM-CDs that have different masterings, or both. WTF?

Some people detected, though, that CDs and SHM-CDs with identical data sound exactly the same.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
LOL. Bullshit IMO. A CD contains digital data only, no "sound". The digital data is converted to sound afterwards ... Either the data is readable or not.
Totally.
Thinman wrote:
It was the same marketing bullshit with those gold CDs years ago.
People have got the wrong end of the stick on that one. It's about the shelf life of the CD itself once it's been recorded.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:37 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
… People have got the wrong end of the stick on that one. It's about the shelf life of the CD itself once it's been recorded.

I have self burnt CDs that suddenly after a few years won't play anymore. The same with data CDs. They seem to be light sensitive. Never did I detect such problems with mechanically manufactured industry audio CDs of any age.

Th.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
I have self burnt CDs that suddenly after a few years won't play anymore. The same with data CDs. They seem to be light sensitive. Never did I detect such problems with mechanically manufactured industry audio CDs of any age.
I don't know about the details but there are CDs of different qualities available. Some will last a long, long time, others not long at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:08 am 
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Just to make that clear: An industry manufactured CD is mechanically pressed (in a sense similar to a vinyl record). Not 'recorded' or 'burnt' or 'written'. For selfmade CDs a laser is used to 'burn' the information into a sensitive surface. That is not to be confused.

A mechanically pressed CD should theoretically last forever. A self burnt CD remains sensitive more or less.

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:51 am 
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Thinman wrote:
A mechanically pressed CD should theoretically last forever.
Ever heard about Compact Disc bronzing?
Some of my CDs bought in the 80's started to rot.
This can be due to the papersleeves and/or wrong handling.
However, I also noticed that some of these CDs did not have this extra glue/plastic on the edges that may prevent oxide or whatever it is to get in between the layers.

I suspect JVC and Universal Music Japan are actually using different materials in order to prevent CDs from deteriorating in papersleeves.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:20 am 
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Maroual wrote:
… Ever heard about Compact Disc bronzing? …

Yes. But if have never experienced anything like that myself. On the other hand I can't check all of my CDs of course. Nothing lasts forever. Still no reason to have bought the gold CDs mentioned earlier.

Th.

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 Post subject: re: fz 2012 reissues
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:55 am 
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polydigm wrote:
thinman wrote:
LOL. Bullshit IMO. A CD contains digital data only, no "sound". The digital data is converted to sound afterwards ... Either the data is readable or not.
Totally...
predictable response from the early adopters





hang in there another month or so, these early japanese issues will also be superceded by the japanese box sets
2 fucking weeks ago, slime.oofytv.set wrote:
... and it appears all the first pressings of all the 2012 cd's are a bum batch with mediocre artwork repro, will probably crap out/fade after a couple hundred [couple dozen¿] plays ... high-quality japanese mini-lp versions will follow universal music's intial test runs of this years 4 batches now being flogged in the usa & europe

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Sorry dude, I may have read your comment ... but the thread is 100 pages long now :wink:
So it seems that what you have foreseen is confirmed, it is good news.
Regarding the promo boxes, maybe I should ask friends who live in Japan to check at Tower Records shibuya or Disk Union Shinjuku.
But I do not expect these motherfuckers to be less expensive than usual.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:44 pm 
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SonofSuzyCreamcheese wrote:
But hey: is MOFO and Lumpy Money worth getting? Is it better sound on those suckers than on the shitty RYKO-discs?

I'm thinking about buying Greasy Love Songs, I love those songs, but the current edition of CWRATJ sucks ass. Worth it?

Anyone? It's seems that since I'm a new member, my posts were delayed.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:28 am 
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SonofSuzyCreamcheese wrote:
SonofSuzyCreamcheese wrote:
But hey: is MOFO and Lumpy Money worth getting? Is it better sound on those suckers than on the shitty RYKO-discs?

I'm thinking about buying Greasy Love Songs, I love those songs, but the current edition of CWRATJ sucks ass. Worth it?

Anyone? It's seems that since I'm a new member, my posts were delayed.


I've never heard of being a new member resulting in "delayed posts". :|
To answer your question, I thoroughly enjoyed all three of those releases!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:38 am 
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Just heard the 2012 Waka Jawaka and One Size Fits All. They just sound amazing. WOW!!!

I cannot believe why we haven't been complaining and bickering about "Release the catalogue from original analog masters!" over the years. These new re-releases are more valuable than most of the "new" releases (of which like the most of them a lot). Great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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