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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:51 am 
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The mere fact that the only 60's and 70's titles not remastered thus far (UM, R&E, ZINY and OF) indicates that we will see deluxe versions in the future. Why leave those out of the UMe remastering process? It doesn't make sense. FO, WOIIFTM, LG and RATJ are already deluxed are not part of the UMe remastering process.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:22 am 
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tiboudre wrote:
The mere fact that the only 60's and 70's titles not remastered thus far (UM, R&E, ZINY and OF) indicates that we will see deluxe versions in the future. Why leave those out of the UMe remastering process? It doesn't make sense. FO, WOIIFTM, LG and RATJ are already deluxed are not part of the UMe remastering process.

Exactly! It doesn't seem to make sense at all, unless those original sources are severly damaged or lost.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:45 am 
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I don't even think that the original source would need any mastering. The original vinyl sounds shit hot. I have never heard anything like it.
Like others have said here, Uncle Meat is the early Mother's masterpiece and I'd welcome this release with almost anything that they could tag on to it. I've never owned the cd version but I would drop the film segments and that crappy Italian shit and restore the album to it's former beauty (yes beauty).

Extra stuff;
I'd like to hear some live stuff from the Mother's at the Albert Hall from September '67 which was just after some of the original tracks were laid down for this lp.
Along with live stuff and interviews (contemporary if possible) I'd love to hear some of the original tracks before all the overdubs. The overdubs are some of the most beautiful and rich parts I have heard but it would be very interesting to hear, say, Dog Breath in the Year of the Plague at it's correct speed and then maybe without all the overdubs.

This has just got me thinking about how gorgeous the Dog Breath Variations is. That last little section always gets to me. Then Zappa brings me back down to earth with a WOIIFTM type splice - nice Frank.

(Any material with some Oozer a la Sleeping in a Jar or Artie and Ruthie (Ruthie? yeah, why not, she's so lovely) playing together would just about make my freaking day punk!)

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Last edited by thenoisydrum on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:12 am 
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A big Uncle Meat package would be great.
As others have said, including the film, which is absolutely shit, should be a no-brainer, but at least the penalty tracks could get flushed-unless they could do a really spiffy job of remixing/remastering them into a coherent statement( :lol: ).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:17 am 
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I think the film is excellent up until the final clip of the Mother's in the Vienna woods and the last interview clips with Preston (from 1970) and Zappa working on the film in his bathroom (from 1970).
All of that and the footage from the Festival Hall is mind bogglingly good but after that, yes, it is pure shit.

I don't know whether that is stating the obvious but I thought it needed to be said. I think at that point Zappa stopped working on it and shelved the project. Up to then I think the film is quite arty and I'd have loved to see it finished back in the day rather than Zappa's retrospective treatment from the 80's.

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Last edited by thenoisydrum on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:38 am 
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After listening to the greatness of MOFO, I truly wants a MOUM! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I think it's pretty safe to say that any project/object expansion of the albums would be welcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I love UNCLE MEAT's sequencing.
From the drop of the needle to the end of side two
it feels like a beautiful "DADA jukebox"
concisly summing up the overall aesthetic of the Mothers.

no other document is really necessary.

I love all the earlier albums but UM for me, was the "destination point."


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:04 pm 
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jeddy wrote:
I love all the earlier albums but UM for me, was the "destination point."


By destination point you obviously mean the place they went after recording their masterpiece WOIIFTM.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:03 pm 
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jeddy wrote:
What the hell's wrong with the ZFT??
UNCLE MEAT is one of the cornerstones of Zappa's entire catalogue!

"THE" masterpiece of the original Mothers of Invention!

It's STILL not been released "properly."

Forget Lumpy Gravy forget WOIIFTM............
UNCLE MEAT is THE "early masterwork"



It is my favorite also, but it is not a tightly edited piece like WOIIFTM. There has to be more unreleased stuff to make a MOUM

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:21 am 
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of course!

PS I'm dissapointed that 2012 uncle meat isn't on one cd :/

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:37 am 
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"By destination point you obviously mean the place they went after recording their masterpiece WOIIFTM."

--uhh, sure...listen don't get me wrong, I think WOIIFTM is great, although I only like about 60% of it.
I understand it's "importance" in the great scheme of things but OVERALL I don't think
UNCLE MEAT sits in anyone's shadow. UM sounds just as "important" as a document IMHO

And it's awesome that The Leafs are STILL undefeated this season!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:03 am 
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jeddy wrote:
"By destination point you obviously mean the place they went after recording their masterpiece WOIIFTM."

--uhh, sure...listen don't get me wrong, I think WOIIFTM is great, although I only like about 60% of it.
I understand it's "importance" in the great scheme of things but OVERALL I don't think
UNCLE MEAT sits in anyone's shadow. UM sounds just as "important" as a document IMHO

And it's awesome that The Leafs are STILL undefeated this season!!!!


+1

I think of the albums in terms of how they can decorate my day in a pleasing way. FZ's own opinion of which works were his 'masterworks' is an interesting side issue. UM is far more important to me cos it's so buoyant. WOOIIFTM is just such a bummer: 'Mom & Dad', 'Who Needs The Peace Corps'. Most of the strength of that album is in its concept and packaging. Even the great melodic bits are buried in this whole atmosphere of despondency. Maybe Frank thought that made it a more substantial work somehow? Maybe he was attached to it because of the point he was at in his life when he recorded it? You can't argue with that, but once he'd released the records they took on a life of their own.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:14 am 
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I don't think there's any debate. They're both great works, and stand head and shoulders over 95 percent of anything else that's out there.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:40 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I don't think there's any debate. They're both great works, and stand head and shoulders over 95 percent of anything else that's out there.

I agree. Even though Uncle Meat is my favorite Zappa album, WOIIFTM is climbing it's back. I love it! The only sad thing about it is the bad sound quality. Is the version on Lumpy Money any good?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 pm 
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I want it with the enchilada & the pickle sauce :!:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:46 pm 
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SonofSuzyCreamcheese wrote:
After listening to the greatness of MOFO, I truly wants a MOUM! :mrgreen:


MOUM Yes!

I love this more than any other FZ record. As stated earlier, the vinyl was stupendous when released on Bizarre. The harpsichord has such presence, you almost hear the keys being depressed. The original mix is perfect, without the penalty tracks.

The splice-in after "my ship of love..." sounded just diminished on the CD. With The Finer Things coming out after Road Tapes #1, my belief that lots of material exists from the 60s.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:54 pm 
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SonofSuzyCreamcheese wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I don't think there's any debate. They're both great works, and stand head and shoulders over 95 percent of anything else that's out there.

I agree. Even though Uncle Meat is my favorite Zappa album, WOIIFTM is climbing it's back. I love it! The only sad thing about it is the bad sound quality. Is the version on Lumpy Money any good?



LM is proof that The MOFO treatment could be applied to the WOIIFTM/LG era. MOUM, or the UM/BWS era needs that treatment and if it gets it, I am sure it will prove my point that this is the greatest MOI period - and the best musical writing FZ ever did.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:13 pm 
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tiboudre wrote:
The mere fact that the only 60's and 70's titles not remastered thus far (UM, R&E, ZINY and OF) indicates that we will see deluxe versions in the future. Why leave those out of the UMe remastering process? It doesn't make sense. FO, WOIIFTM, LG and RATJ are already deluxed are not part of the UMe remastering process.


What I've noticed is that almost all of the non-remastered 2012 titles fall into the following categories:

1. the vinyl mix is already part of a separate Zappa Records P/O title (FO, Ruben)
2. the latest Ryko version already contained the vinyl mix (WOIIFM, LG)
3. the Ryko version contained substantial alterations--not just slight edits to the material, but considerable changes & additions
4. the later titles that were digitally mastered to begin with (with the exception of Them Or Us)

I realize that there are exceptions like Hot Rats and Sleep Dirt. Personally, I've kept both CD versions of Hot Rats, because I like both mixes for different reasons. My first exposure to the Sleep Dirt material was on Lather, so I've never felt the need to get the separate album.

Uncle Meat obviously falls into category 3. Even though the movie dialogue tracks and "Tengo na minchia tanta" are penalty tracks that cause me to reach for the "skip" button, the fact is that they were substantial FZ revisions to the album. The ZFT obviously doesn't feel comfortable reverting to the vinyl version of the album and undoing FZ's alterations to it, even though 99% of us out here in TV Land wishes they would. That alone justifies having a separate P/O release.

One possibility about why the Uncle Meat CD was released with the bogus bonus material to begin with: at 75:57, the original album would barely fit on one CD, but I believe CD mastering standards were more conservative in the late '80s, and 70 minutes was considered more of a comfortable limit at the time, IIRC. Zappa might not have been comfortable releasing the album on two short CDs, or one long and one *really* short CD.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:01 am 
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profusion wrote:
One possibility about why the Uncle Meat CD was released with the bogus bonus material to begin with: at 75:57, the original album would barely fit on one CD, but I believe CD mastering standards were more conservative in the late '80s, and 70 minutes was considered more of a comfortable limit at the time, IIRC. Zappa might not have been comfortable releasing the album on two short CDs, or one long and one *really* short CD.


In the early days of CD the "official" max time for a single disc was 74:33. By the late 80's, though, a fair number of companies were pushing against that boundary, and ironically Ryko put a lot of hype behind an 80-minute CD of the band Mission Of Burma a short time afte that first Uncle Meat CD.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:17 am 
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True, but you'll also remember that the WOIIFTM/LG two-fer was advertised as "over 70 minutes of music." I think there was a possibility that Frank thought he was giving the public those extras that were becoming common on CD reissues at the time. Look, two-CD sets in those clunky holders were sold and sold well for reissues like Chicago's first two LPs (the first one could definitely have fit on a single disc, even in those days) and people expected them to be double CDs. Frank usually did know what his audiences wanted, and he probably thought that the Unclue Meat Movie soundtrack would go over big - he also knew that people could use the 'skip' button after they heard it once. The CD was a new medium in the '80s and FZ was taking advantage of the format, or so he thought.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:38 am 
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I suspect he either didn't expect there would be the negative reaction of several fans to the film excerpts, or didn't care.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:52 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
I suspect he either didn't expect there would be the negative reaction of several fans to the film excerpts, or didn't care.


Either way. We tend to give him more credit than anyone deserves on this forum - he was marketing his product in a way he thought was

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Zappa did what he felt like at the time. If he was alive today I doubt he'd add that digi-verb and probably would heed the fans and leave the tedious bonus trax off of UM. Zappa was caught up in the new technology of the 80s. It's obvious now that the 80s were one of the worst era's in terms of the sound of recorded music. I wonder if Zappa would still want those 80s overdubs on WOIIFTM today. It seems unlikely. With the internet, it's much easier to gauge what fans want. It's very clear that his Mothers albums are important and should be preserved. Uncle Meat is an incredible album. I don't think anything should ever be added or taken away. Just make the truest transfer you can.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:14 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
I suspect he either didn't expect there would be the negative reaction of several fans to the film excerpts, or didn't care.


Either way. We tend to give him more credit than anyone deserves on this forum - he was marketing his product in a way he thought was


Was....what? Illegal? Un-Canadian? Jejune? Serendipitous? I need to know!!!

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