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 Post subject: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:12 am 
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New discussion we all know it would be a far safer in the US without guns, but the Gun Genie Escaped the Bottle long ago. Lets set aside the fact that the 2nd Amendment was not designed to give people guns, but to give them the ability to battle the Government if they ever needed, intent is everything when it comes to Rights. People I know that own multiple guns have pistols mostly for home defense, shot guns and long rifles for hunting, and at least (1) assault weapon for fighting the big fight they hope never comes.

Now we are going to pass a law and collect an estimated 350,000,000 weapons from 150,000,000 people of which as many as 70,000,000 are assault weapons. Logistically how are you going to do this, what resources will be used, how long would this take, what do you do with people who have perfect track records that refuse?

Many many logistical questions and don't forget that the assault weapons were purchased and maintained to stop the Government from taking away rights, like the 2nd Amendment... :smoke:

What say you?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:23 am 
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Logistically, you can't. I'd suggest a government- or company-sponsored deal to help things, stricter legislation so only certified stores (who will background-check) are allowed to sell guns or buy guns from civilians, thereby actively punishing illegal gun sales and preventing then from being used as give-aways.
There's going to have to be a mentality change, and step-by-step changes in legislation are the path to follow.

With the States being so strictly obeying the Bill Of Rights, I'm not sure how it's possible to tinker with it so that the bear arms bit could be scratched.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:36 am 
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Plook wrote:
Many many logistical questions

Great. That will distract us all from the real problem, which is not guns.

The problem is environment. Every thought planted in the mind is a seed which will bear fruit.



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Last edited by downer mydnyte on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:40 am 
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My point is the logistical impossibilty of it all and frankly the same goes for the socio-environmental aspect too, hell that side of the coin is more unmanagable than the gun side of the problem... :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:37 am 
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Guns are no good without ammo....how about looking at things from that perspective. Lanza had a stockpile of ammo....Wouldn't it make sense to regulate the ammo or possibly to flag purchases of large amounts of ammo for investigation? just a thought

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 pm 
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You know: a little funding for mental health programs goes a long way...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Forget gun control! Forget mental health issues! Solve the whole problem with Dick's new clean and improved programme of putting metal detectors and cops in schools!
http://www.dickmorris.com/put-metal-det ... nch-alert/
BTW is it just me or is Dick's face a tad redder in recent weeks and his hair a little more frazzled? Perhaps it's the result of wanting to hug 5 or 6 year olds.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:27 pm 
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People in the late 18th Century were notoriously bad spellers. They were also, for religious and moral reasons, horribly overdressed. Many of them wanted the right to bare their arms, i.e. roll up their shirt sleeves and expose a little more skin. But some bonehead at at the constitutional convention changed the spelling and here we are.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Pope Jim wrote:
People in the late 18th Century were notoriously bad spellers. They were also, for religious and moral reasons, horribly overdressed. Many of them wanted the right to bare their arms, i.e. roll up their shirt sleeves and expose a little more skin. But some bonehead at at the constitutional convention changed the spelling and here we are.



Sorry Pope, this is one of those times when there is no laughter, my opinions on children and protecting children are well known on this site and this discussion deals with issues that may or may not bring our country to a possible Civil War...

I will allow a mulligan since the topic was Gun Control, but we all know what is driving this conversation and it is one of the most despicable, truly evil acts we know of.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:41 pm 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
You know: a little funding for mental health programs goes a long way...

Actually, it doesn't. In addition, most states are cutting mental health funding to pay for debts and operating expenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:57 pm 
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And there is no cure for this evil, short of some super-regimented Communist regime like North Korea. You want that? People have been singing peace-love-dove since I was a kid in the Fifties and nobody with any power or money is listening. I still can't smoke a legal joint on my front porch. First we need to kill all the capitalists, all the politicians, all the lawyers, all the generals, all the religious hucksters and all the so-called journalists, and that's gonna take a whole lot of guns. They're all working toward their own vision of the perfect tyranny and fuck us little people. Once that's done, once about 50% of the men are dead (all the alpha males) and about 10% of the women, you build from there. Or, to take a gentler road, we could stop buying their shoddy products, their blatant lies, their empty threats and quit watching our TVs. Is that gonna happen? Fuck no. Hasn't happened yet and it ain't gonna. We're stupid and we're cowards. We talk a good game, but we all cheat. You fly all over the country every other week and help pollute the atmosphere because you can't afford the insurance doing what you really love, which is probably surfing. You probably drive down to the corner store for a pack of smokes because who can spare the ten minutes to walk there and back? Who's got the breath for that anymore? Shit, it's raining; I have to drive. So all that ecology talk? Bullshit. The kids are gonna have to figure it out for themselves. I'm too goddamn busy to take responsibility. We're all like that, even me. And then we sit at our computers and yell at each other and pretend we all have the answers and why the hell don't you fucking dunderheads listen to me, huh? Fuck! And meanwhile the rich get richer and the fat get fatter and nothing changes...because we don't live the change we want to happen! We just talk about it. We all talk at the same time and nobody listens. And finally somebody snaps.

So why not make a joke? Pretty soon Disco Boy will be here to turn it into a joke, anyhow.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
You know: a little funding for mental health programs goes a long way...

Actually, it doesn't. In addition, most states are cutting mental health funding to pay for debts and operating expenses.

And in there lies the tradgedy.If the lawmakers had just one sick puppie in their family,this coddling the NRA would come to a halt and some rightious legislation concerning gun laws,would finally become law.Anyone that knows someone with a mental illness would not vote or approve of the loose assault rifle statutes that are in place now.It's BS.Even target shooting you don't need an assault rifle and a thousand rounds +,to go with it.It might be your right.But it's wrong.IMHO {-

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Pope Jim wrote:
Pretty soon Disco Boy will be here to turn it into a joke, anyhow.


No, I think you've already done that yourself.

And btw, apparently the shooter of the Connecticut tragedy had Asperger Syndrome. And according to 60 Minutes last night, he tried to purchase a gun but was REJECTED - which means the gun laws WORKED in this case. So instead, he stole one from his mother, killed her and then went to the school and killed the children and teachers.

While it's probably a good idea to make gun control laws stricter, this is clearly a mental illness issue, not a gun control issue...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Quote:
Pope Jim wrote:
Pretty soon Disco Boy will be here to turn it into a joke, anyhow.

Disco Boy wrote:
No, I think you've already done that yourself.


See? And rather than talk about the main meat of what I wrote, he picks around the edges, like he was working at a scab. Yes, indeed, now we're getting somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Pope Jim comes alive!!!





Plook wrote:
My point is the logistical impossibilty of it all and frankly the same goes for the socio-environmental aspect too, hell that side of the coin is more unmanagable than the gun side of the problem... :smoke:

I hear ya, Plook. I was just using your quote as a springboard.



The ignored problem is our fucked up society. Guns are just an extension.

Here is something you'll never hear about from our "leaders"....
Look at how we treat animals. What did Gandhi say? Measure a nation by how well it treats it's animals? I have no problem with eating animals, I'm not a vegetarian, but lets treat them with some fucking respect and let them have some dignity before we eat them. If a person doesn't see the connection between how we treat animals and how we treat each other, well, that just shows how far gone we are. Who wants to fuel their body with the flesh of tortured animals? I think there is a price to pay for such disregard and we will continue to pay it. Animals have nervous systems. And if you don't think it's torture put your children in the cage with the chickens and see how you feel.



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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:23 pm 
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It is not merely a mental health issue OR a gun issue, it is a combination of the two. The lack of decent mental health care programs and the easy availability of military grade weaponry is just a recipe for disaster. We need to deal with both issues. But lets look at some basic facts. First, after Australia had one of these incidents in the mid 90s, they banned assault weapons and placed strict regulations on all others. Since then, their homicide rate dropped by 59% and there have been zero mass killings. Second, soldiers in Israel used to be able to take their guns home with them on the weekends. They had a serious problems with soldiers committing suicide while they were away from the barracks. So they forbid them from bringing guns home with them and the suicide rate was cut in half. So don't try to tell me that having guns in the home is not a large part of the problem.

BTW, the children of other countries enjoy playing the same violent video games as American kids, and the homicide rates in most of those countries are less than 1% of what ours are.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Pope Jim wrote:
Quote:
Pope Jim wrote:
Pretty soon Disco Boy will be here to turn it into a joke, anyhow.

Disco Boy wrote:
No, I think you've already done that yourself.


See? And rather than talk about the main meat of what I wrote, he picks around the edges, like he was working at a scab. Yes, indeed, now we're getting somewhere.


The fuck?

I'm not picking around anything.

The "logic" in your previous post is moronic, at best.

blsabob23 wrote:
It is not merely a mental health issue OR a gun issue, it is a combination of the two. The lack of decent mental health care programs and the easy availability of military grade weaponry is just a recipe for disaster. We need to deal with both issues. But lets look at some basic facts. First, after Australia had one of these incidents in the mid 90s, they banned assault weapons and placed strict regulations on all others. Since then, their homicide rate dropped by 59% and there have been zero mass killings. Second, soldiers in Israel used to be able to take their guns home with them on the weekends. They had a serious problems with soldiers committing suicide while they were away from the barracks. So they forbid them from bringing guns home with them and the suicide rate was cut in half. So don't try to tell me that having guns in the home is not a large part of the problem.

BTW, the children of other countries enjoy playing the same violent video games as American kids, and the homicide rates in most of those countries are less than 1% of what ours are.


1. As of 2011, Australia has over 22.6 million people and the US has over 311.6 million people.

2. Please post those stats. Because if someone has seriously decided that they're going to commit suicide, then there's not much you can do about it.

3. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Apparently the shooter of the Connecticut tragedy had Asperger Syndrome. And according to 60 Minutes Sunday night, he tried to purchase a gun but was REJECTED - which means the gun laws WORKED in this case. So instead, he stole one from his mother, killed her and then went to the school and killed the children and teachers.

While it's probably a good idea to make gun control laws stricter, this is clearly a mental illness issue, not a gun control issue...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:08 pm 
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If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:58 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?

+1


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:20 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?


If that was the case, then it obviously wouldn't have been "so fast," no. But he still could've killed just as many people...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?


If that was the case, then it obviously wouldn't have been "so fast," no. But he still could've killed just as many people...

Not likely. Very unlikely, actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:13 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?


If that was the case, then it obviously wouldn't have been "so fast," no. But he still could've killed just as many people...

Not likely. Very unlikely, actually.


Unless the police showed up in seconds or someone within a close vicinity of the location had a firearm and used it...VERY likely, actually.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:21 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
If the assault rifle wasn't there in the first place,does anyone really think he could of killed so many kids so fast (or even attempted to) with just a couple of hand guns?


If that was the case, then it obviously wouldn't have been "so fast," no. But he still could've killed just as many people...

Not likely. Very unlikely, actually.

Challenge accepted!

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:28 pm 
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DB,do you feel that would that be true in all the school shootings and other public multi-shootings like Rep.Giffords?

These young men in all these shootings over the years have had plenty of time to plan*.As far as I can remember,all were committed with semi-automatic rifles,then hand guns.The one's with more firepower killed more.Meaning the assault rifles do more damage and killing,but givin' the time a hand gun will do the same.
DB,do you think we should ban assault type army rifles & clips from the general public consumption and why or why not bro'?
What about hand guns?


*I think all had some kind of mental illness going on also.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:44 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
DB,do you feel that would that be true in all the school shootings and other public multi-shootings like Rep.Giffords?


That's a hard question to answer. Because it really depends on the situation in question.

KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
These young men in all these shootings over the years have had plenty of time to plan*.As far as I can remember,all were committed with semi-automatic rifles,then hand guns.The one's with more firepower killed more.Meaning the assault rifles do more damage and killing,but givin' the time a hand gun will do the same.
DB,do you think we should ban assault type army rifles & clips from the general public consumption and why or why not bro'?
What about hand guns?


*I think all had some kind of mental illness going on also.


That's another hard question to answer. But since I don't see any reason why someone would need to own or even use a high-powered assault weapon, like a machine gun, etc., other than to kill someone/something, I'd probably say yes in this case. But I'm not a fan of prohibition...

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