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Opinions on that seem to differ, see http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html. Charles Ulrich maintains it was the first 1973 band.

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I believe an FZ interview remark surfaced confirming that it was in fact the early 73 band.

As far as a 73 show appearing in Road Tapes, I believe Gail promised a Ponty era release in "GZ Sez." Ponty also sat in with ZPZ last year, which seems a good sign.

Makes sense that it was the 73 band. Either way it seems to me that FZ wanted his cake and eat it too. It's not enough that he was able to attract brilliant musicians and that they would play their butts off for him they also had to keep him entertained between venues and be pigeons for his twisted little social experiments and when they won't play ball he gets nasty about it?

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

One more time: http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html I wish it was ridiculous, but "Po-Jama People" IS about a Zappa band that wasn't fun enough for Zappa's liking. I hope the two interviews cited by Ben Watson will eventually surface at Avo Raup's website (afka.net) so that anyone can discern for oneself.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

he said boring PEOPLE, no fun on the bus or to be with. he didn't call the music they played boring. so the the ridiculous thought that he didn't release much MUSIC from that band because they were "boring" is incorrect.

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

oh and Ben Watson is a shitdick

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

But an interesting shitdick. Unlike Barry Miles, who is merely a shitdick.

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The more I learn, the less I know.

Lest anybody think otherwise, I didn't say the 1973 band was a bore musically. If I did, clearly I was not precise enough. However, I still suspect FZ must've thought the 1974 band played "Dupree's Paradise" (just one example) with more verve, conviction and groovy vibes than the 1973 group. I would also cite "RDNZL" and "Inca Roads", good examples of tunes that reached their definitive form with the June-December 1974 sextet. FZ must've found the Helsinki group so fully-formed that the 1973 band may have appeared a bit formative and provisional in comparison.

I think it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances that the line-up changed so much, Jean-Luc thought the Mothers was becoming too commercial and Ian's reasons may have ranged from wanting to move on to other ventures to...well, a crisis in his relationship with Ruth (just a speculation, no definitive answer). I also think it's weird Zappa got a second drummer Fall '73 and then ditched the first drummer by mid-74. Was Ralph not sufficient enough by himself?

But enough of talking (hopefully not out of arse, but still), if the 1973 MOI with JLP show is really in the pipeline, we'll just have to wait patiently.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Going to hazard a guess FZ wanted someone who could groove more than Ralph, while also still needing Ralph to handle the odd meters and tuplets that Chester didn't know yet. Plus FZ liked experimenting with two drummers. I believe Ralph has said by 1974 he and FZ both thought it was the right time for Ralph to leave.

Agreed. What a bunch of crap...

And anyway, how can ANY true FZ fan not like the winter/spring/summer '73 band?

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I always thought he said that Po-Jama People was directed at the "classical" musicians he had hired to play his classical pieces.

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Here's a crrrrrrrrrrrrrazy thought... MAYBE IT'S JUST ABOUT PEOPLE THAT WEAR POJAMAS? What a concept huh?

Frank was always mocking the absurd so think about it...

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

http://www.afka.net/articles/1980-01_Musicians_Only.htm

"It doesn't make much difference to me in the studio, I could put a piece of music down in front of someone or just tell them how to play it. I have had bands where everyone has been a reader. The most boring band I had was like that and ultimately led to the song "[Po-Jama] People" which is written about that particular band which had people like Ruth (Underwood), George (Duke) and Ponty. You go on the road and you have these people living their life to play [Yahtzee] on the bus, and chess and engaging in intellectual juiceless pursuits. I like to have guys in the band who want to go out there and want to get laid. Without that attitude the performance of the music doesn't really work. They've got to have something that sets them apart from other people who are just as competent or technical.

"It's hard to find people who can play with real precision but also know how to put the fun into it, because there's a strong desire on the part of the audiences who come to our sort of shows to have a few laughs."

It's evident from 1974 tapes that he had more fun in the later bands with George and Ruth so perhaps losing some band members and gaining others helped.

A good observation I would add. It's quite clear to my mind that certain two members that joined for the Fall '73 tour were more fun than the two members that last played on the previous European tour and it's quite possible that the Summer '74 lineup overhaul also served to reduce the "square" quota by at least a member or two. But something tells me Bruce Fowler was gone for reasons other than supposed "squareness". Was he fired? He probably was. I guess "Inca Roads" got so fast it was impossible to play it as good on trombone anymore.

It was also clear that Albert Wing, an excellent sax player, would've been more deserving of Ian Underwood's formidable shoes. However, FZ settled for someone who wasn't really that great of a sax player, but had powerful vocal cords and lots of stage presence. I guess he realised that having a bunch of technically skilled guys in itself was not enough.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it