Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:29 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2979 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
buffalo_voice wrote:
… -- plus the oddly high dBs of the quieter tracks in relation to the 'shouters.'

Good point. Twenty Small Cigars and The Clap are too loud. There is something like that on other remastered reissued, too. For instance the Captain Beefheart spoken word tracks on Bongo Fury. I didn't compare to the vinyl records yet. So maybe it has been always like this. Or, when it is different on the records, maybe some track to track balancing was decided and done during disc cutting in the old days. It that case it would be no good idea to have the unaltered balance of the mastertape on the finished product. Or it is because of modern times iTunes/mp3-player mentality, where the culture of the flow of an album got lost and everything is normalized to the same level.

And for the hiss: George's organ intro on Road Ladies wouldn't sound that good anymore if you would try to remove the hiss. My brain automatically masks the hiss when it is constant. ;-)

Th.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6241
Location: Your Mom's Box
Thinman wrote:
And for the hiss: George's organ intro on Road Ladies wouldn't sound that good anymore if you would try to remove the hiss. My brain automatically masks the hiss when it is constant. ;-)

Th.


it's not hiss. more than likely it's the sound of the rotating speaker in George's Leslie Cabinets.

Unlike a high-fidelity loudspeaker, the Leslie is specifically designed, via reproduction of the Doppler effect, to alter or modify sound. Although there have been many variations over the years, the classic Leslie speaker consists of two driver units - a stationary treble unit with spinning horns, and a stationary woofer and spinning rotor, with a crossover, that divides the frequencies between the horn and the woofer. The key feature is that both the horns (in reality one working horn with a dummy to counterbalance it) and a sound baffle or scoop for the bass are electromechanically rotated to create Doppler effect–based vibrato, tremolo and chorus effects. The rotating elements can be stopped, switched between slow (chorale) and fast (tremolo), or transitioned between the two settings. To stop a Leslie's rotor, a special brake circuit was added to the Leslie motor controls, that incorporated a tube relay, which sent the rotors into chorale before cutting power from the rotors to bring them to a quicker stop. Solid state relays now make this possible. A three-position switch must be used to allow the rotors to "brake" on a two-speed Leslie. Some other model Leslies had no slow motor and were basically one speed, "fast" or "off."

Much of the Leslie's unique tone is due to the fact that the system is at least partially enclosed, whereby linear louvres along the sides and front of the unit can vent the sound from within the box after the sound has bounced around inside, mellowing it.[3] The tone is also affected by the wood used. Tone differences, due to cost cutting using particle board for speaker and rotor shelves instead of the previous plywood, are evident in the Leslie's sound. The thinner ply of the top of the cabinet adds a certain resonance as well. Like an acoustic instrument, a Leslie's tone is uniquely defined by its cabinet design and construction, the amp and speakers used, and the motors—not merely by the spinning of rotors.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
Of course. The majority of the "hiss" can be from the Leslie.

In any case, I think the organ sounds absolutely perfect. And I think the recording quality of Chunga's is top notch 1970 quality. Very natural and realistic, not over-produced. You feel like being in the same room with the band, when listening to this reissue.

Th.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: An air base in Central Europe
jaypfunk wrote:
Thinman wrote:
And for the hiss: George's organ intro on Road Ladies wouldn't sound that good anymore if you would try to remove the hiss. My brain automatically masks the hiss when it is constant. ;-)

Th.


it's not hiss.

Hehe, quote of the day --
There sure are multitudes of sources for hiss in early effects units and such -- it's still hiss and I don't like it much. I'd much prefer a prolific engineer dealing with it and still coming up with a great sound, instead of going " Uh, that's authentic 1970 sonics, there's nothing that can beat 45 year-old technology, and also it's an awful lot of work we won't have to do" :wink: It's all a matter of personal taste (and age,) I guess.

Oh, I see, I should have written 'hiss' instead of 'tape hiss' in the first place -- my fault. Or on second thought - maybe not..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
@buffalo_voice: Do you have Burnt Weeny Sandwich? Both CD versions, old and new? I would like to know what you prefer when comparing the piano intros of LHIUTLI. The old version where the hiss is being switched on and off. Or the new version where the hiss remains constant?

Every electronic circuit produces hiss more or less. I would rather insert hiss in blank spaces than make use of audible noise reduction.

Another example of bad noise reduction where the artifacts are worse than the noise: the old CD version of Zoot Allures. A denoiser was likely used here. The higher frequencies get filtered out when the signal level decreases (excuse my bad English here). One can hear that very obviusly during the fadeouts. The softer the signal gets, the more higher frequencies disappear.

I used to think your way when I was younger. But I changed my mind with age. Maybe I need the hiss now to be sure than I can still hear ;-)

Th.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: An air base in Central Europe
Thinman wrote:
Maybe I need the hiss now to be sure than I can still hear ;-)

YOU'RE ONLY HEARING 50% OF IT! :wink: :P

No, I didn't bother to get the new BWS, because my old version's divine in all respects. Makes me wanna eat it. I was raised on post-punk era recordings (as they're supposedly being called today), I go for attack (aggression?) rather than 'gemütlichkeit,' and I don't want to have musicians in my room. They should surprise me with their own. I think I once read 'XY (insert 1980s CD reissue) is making my ears ring' -- I'd say that for a compliment, you (I'm almost entirely sure) wouldn't. A good chunk of 2000s remaster output (in general) has a strange 'overweight-y' feel to it, for my peculiar tastes, with all the boosted bottom end and clumsy tape noise. But that's a zeitgeist phenomenon I guess. The 'sharp and slender cut': You probably find it in visual art rather than in (popular?) musics, nowadays.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:50 am
Posts: 30
Here's a handy list of all the 2012 reissues and why they're necessary.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 5292
Location: Birthplace of Grand Funk Railroad & Mr Don Preston
jk666 wrote:
Here's a handy list of all the 2012 reissues and why they're necessary.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html


Thank you for that; it has cleared up the mix questions I had about each album 8)

_________________
*********************************************************************

You just don't understand, You're from Kalamazoo.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2190
Location: Hamilton, NJ
jk666 wrote:
Here's a handy list of all the 2012 reissues and why they're necessary.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html


As usual, IINK provides the clearest, most useful guidance...

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5908
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
tweezers wrote:
jk666 wrote:
Here's a handy list of all the 2012 reissues and why they're necessary.
http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html
As usual, IINK provides the clearest, most useful guidance...
That's Vinyls vs CDs not IINK, the latter is off the air at the moment. :wink:

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5908
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Okay, now that I have the new Läther in my hands, I take it back, the four panel gallery is a nice idea. And I like the way they've packaged it. The point is that you will be able to put it on the shelf with the others because it's exactly the same size. I'm glad it's not one of those mega sized hard plastic 3 CD jobs.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 57
buffalo_voice wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Maybe I need the hiss now to be sure than I can still hear ;-)

YOU'RE ONLY HEARING 50% OF IT! :wink: :P

No, I didn't bother to get the new BWS, because my old version's divine in all respects. Makes me wanna eat it. I was raised on post-punk era recordings (as they're supposedly being called today), I go for attack (aggression?) rather than 'gemütlichkeit,' and I don't want to have musicians in my room. They should surprise me with their own. I think I once read 'XY (insert 1980s CD reissue) is making my ears ring' -- I'd say that for a compliment, you (I'm almost entirely sure) wouldn't. A good chunk of 2000s remaster output (in general) has a strange 'overweight-y' feel to it, for my peculiar tastes, with all the boosted bottom end and clumsy tape noise. But that's a zeitgeist phenomenon I guess. The 'sharp and slender cut': You probably find it in visual art rather than in (popular?) musics, nowadays.


The new BWS is amazing, far better than the reverbed, pinched sounding old CD. Give it a shot! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 140
Location: back east...
I received my order of Läther from UK today. Call me nuts but I prefer it without the bonus tracks. I like the packaging too. Unfortunately it's so tight It's tough to insert and remove the cds from the pockets. Let alone put them in round-bottomed sleeves and insert them. If they would just make these a little taller you could use them like LP sleeves. As they are the cds will never go back in the case. Läther gets a special place on the shelf anyways so I'll cope.
I'm done for now. If one more Zappa cd comes in the mail I'll be sleepin' on the sofa.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6241
Location: Your Mom's Box
The Lather packaging is fucking amazing! It looks to me as it may be laid out similar to what Frank may have intended the LP box set to look like. I love it!!

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2190
Location: Hamilton, NJ
jaypfunk wrote:
The Lather packaging is fucking amazing! It looks to me as it may be laid out similar to what Frank may have intended the LP box set to look like. I love it!!


the sound jayp, the sound, is it any different?

BTW, shoot us some pics of the packaging...

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6241
Location: Your Mom's Box
tweezers wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The Lather packaging is fucking amazing! It looks to me as it may be laid out similar to what Frank may have intended the LP box set to look like. I love it!!


the sound jayp, the sound, is it any different?

BTW, shoot us some pics of the packaging...


haven't had a chance to listen yet but it does state that it is the 1996 1630 Digital Master so i don't expect it to sound any different.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2190
Location: Hamilton, NJ
jaypfunk wrote:
tweezers wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The Lather packaging is fucking amazing! It looks to me as it may be laid out similar to what Frank may have intended the LP box set to look like. I love it!!


the sound jayp, the sound, is it any different?

BTW, shoot us some pics of the packaging...


haven't had a chance to listen yet but it does state that it is the 1996 1630 Digital Master so i don't expect it to sound any different.


thanks

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5908
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
    Image
Image
The outer panels fold over first, then the whole thing is folded in the middle, so the two middle panels are the front and back and when you open it up first you see the two outer panels, then fold those out and you see the four page album plan. It's a nice package.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2190
Location: Hamilton, NJ
I remember seeing some scans of how the tape boxes were marked for the original, vinyl release. Looks great.

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6241
Location: Your Mom's Box
just compared the sound of 1996 to the 2012 Lather. No difference at all

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2190
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Then I have to decide if the packaging is worth the money, because that is what I get.

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
The artwork is better on the new version of Lather, so I'll get it.


Any noticeable audio differences between the AU20 versions versus the new versions of Apostrophe (') and OSFA, or are they exactly the same?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1346
Location: Paris, France
polydigm wrote:
    Image
Image
The outer panels fold over first, then the whole thing is folded in the middle, so the two middle panels are the front and back and when you open it up first you see the two outer panels, then fold those out and you see the four page album plan. It's a nice package.
:shock: :shock: Niiiiiiice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:42 pm
Posts: 1020
Location: The Short Forest
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The artwork is better on the new version of Lather, so I'll get it.


Any noticeable audio differences between the AU20 versions versus the new versions of Apostrophe (') and OSFA, or are they exactly the same?


I really didn't notice much difference, OSFA seems a bit brighter, but maybe it's a placebo effect :D I always thought the AU20 versions sounded great, but since the new ones were 9.99 and they are two of my favorite studio albums, I went with 'em.
New Lather art/layout looks neat, but I see no need to purchase again. Finally got The Grand Wazoo(from EU) and it sounds superb :shock: . I now have all the 2012 reissues I needed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:51 pm
Posts: 2344
Location: Europe
Läther is worth the packaging alone! I have always hated that cow pic.

_________________
"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2979 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group