Zappa.com

All you need to know is Tesla was working on a free home delivery system and Edison was working on regulated system that could be gotten for a fee...

Firstly, the Industrial Revolution is not equivalent to the Capitalist Revolution. The emergence of the former may have been unleashed by the strivings of the latter, but the industrial revolution is a human achievement. The fundamental issue from my standpoint is who should own it all? Who gets to benefit? "Without the industrial revolution we'd still be using candles for light." That's a true statement, but DB is saying that it's a product of capitalism and if he wants capitalism unfettered then he is inferring that the capitalist ruling class gets to decide what and where as far as building society is concerned. It's equally as true to say that without human labour we'd still be swinging from the trees and eating bananas.

Try as you might, you won't untangle the conflict between labour and capital by unfettering the owners of capital, they're just human after all. There is no absolute who's right and who's wrong in this conflict. As Engels said, a ship needs a captain just as much as it needs a crew. But, "Biting the hand that feeds you" is such a patronising and dark ages statement as who is biting whose hand? Statistics may well have been grossly exaggerated or misrepresented about child labour during the early stages of the Industrial Revolution, but child labour, however you look at it was no picnic and it is far from the only issue and the majority of progress made by the working class has been fought for long and hard and was rarely freely given.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Once again, you know almost NOTHING of what you're talking about. If you actually read the link I provided, at the bottom there are 16 references from which the essay is compiled from. And hence it's not only coming from one source or the site itself.

Keep FAILIN' and FAILIN' HARD, tweedle-dumb. It's VERY entertaining.



Well, that's good. Because it's not like you've EVER skewed info I've presented.

And it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Because I really am not the only who believes that.



That's nice. But my point still stands.



You obviously didn't read the essay. Because what the essay was conveying was that, as bad as it was, child labour was, at that point in time, necessary. And it explicitly backs that up with compelling evidence and those crazy things called FACTS - which I know you Socialists just love to deny.

And yes, many technological developments wouldn't have happened, or at least as fast, if it were not for the Industrial Revolution.



I guess you didn't read the essay either? Because whether you want to believe it or not, Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution walked hand in hand and were, are and will continue to be extremely essential to the quality of life, technological developments, jobs, market demand, wage increases, etc., that have fostered ever since. Just about ANYONE who lives in a Capitalist and/or Mixed Economy wants to make more capital. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can call it greed. But there's actually two kinds of greed, financially speaking. But for some reason, many people can't separate or distinguish between the two. One of course is the extremely selfish kind, which brings out the negative aspects of Capitalism and gives it a bad name sometimes. But the other, is the necessary kind, where productivity, pride in achievement and hard work drives people to flourish in a positive way...and THAT'S what makes the world go 'round. In comparison, Socialism/Communism doesn't give you that, does it? We have to remember that there is no perfect economic system, nor will there EVER be. But Capitalism is FAR superior to any economic system you can name. This is not even debatable. It's a shame that you seemingly don't understand Capitalism. And that's not only because you amazingly think it didn't play a HUGELY important role in the Industrial Revolution or that it wasn't embedded within this period, but also because in most cases, Capitalism only flourishes if the market (the people) allows it to...

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ONE NATION UNDER SOCIALISM



Because of Obamination's spending & socialist BS, America and much of the world will endure one of the worst depressions in history in 5...4...3...2...

I understand that it's like a religion to you.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

You are sick, aren't you?

Capitalism has an innate disease: exploitation. That was and still is the reason for child labor.

Th.

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Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from this forum in 2013

In fact I did read the essay with some interest and don't see very much difference between the statement: and the statement:
I am, however, perfectly prepared to agree that your gloss might be slightly more precise.

The article itself, however, IMO is an expression of an historical/opinion and not historical fact. There are other valid opinions around, some of whom the author has the grace to quote, though some might argue out of context.

BTW. as regards historical theory, I tend to reject Socialist/Communist method as being too rigid, though there are many who present an interesting view, just as many conservative historians do.

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The more I learn, the less I know.

This is NOT all you need to know about these two great inventors, they both had many great inventions still used today, I find it strange that you would reduce a mountain of knowledge to be gained from these to guys to your above statement.

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Confusion will be my epitaph

Tesla was experimenting with modulating electricity to radio waves. Totally wireless. Tune to the frequency and get the power.

That's what I heard, anyway.

Researchers of the Holocaust Memorial Museum have found there were 40,000 nazi camps and ghettos in Europe during WW2: a lot more than previous estimates.

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Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!

Interesting info - got a link?

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a hoax, but it's a good story. I was wondering if Plook had any relatives in the Department of Defense? (Just joking, Plook - you know I love your spelling).
"CRESCENT CITY, CA — The Department of Defense has confirmed accusations that a $179 million military training program for mountain gorillas was created based on a spelling error in an email between two high ranking Army officers, according to official sources. The admission follows over a year of denials, which were originally sparked by a leaked copy of the email from an anonymous whistleblower."

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/typo- ... z2MUjKShB1

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The more I learn, the less I know.

Yes that was his vision.

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Confusion will be my epitaph

Sorry Caputh - read it on a Dutch news site.

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Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!

Got a Dutch link? Reading Dutch is easier for me than speaking it!

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The more I learn, the less I know.

What's this I keep hearing about gorilla warfare?

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Good luck Caputh!
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2672/Wetenschap-Gezondheid/article/detail/3402908/2013/03/02/Nazikampen-en-getto-s-in-Europa-in-kaart-gebracht-aantallen-ongelofelijk-hoog.dhtml

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The quality of whose life?
The people who had this land violently stolen from them? They were probably better off without the industrial revolution. The poor who work in wretched conditions and are slaves to all of the machines? Obviously not. They'd probably rather die from plague. I'm sure most of the slaves who built the railroads were not real excited about the industrial revolution. And it could be argued that factories and mines are not necessarily preferable to wilderness.

You must be talking about the quality of life for the rich and spoiled.

Thanks, Bonnie. I'll fight my way through it and get back to you - someday

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The more I learn, the less I know.

Here's a more English-friendly version of the story:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/03/holocaust_researchers_more_nazi_camps_than_we_knew/

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I actually agree with dm. I take back some of what I've said about you in these and other pages.

Honey Boo Boo is deluded and clueless. His piss poor attempts to come off as somebody who thinks he knows what he's talking about have fallen shorter than a castrated short bus.

Anybody who uses an essay written by a guy who was inbedded in the Contra affair in Nicaragua during the Reagan years, apparently wasn't listening to what Frank Zappa had to say about them. What next? Disco Douche has a hard-on for Ollie North?

You're confusing capitolism for imperialism Disco Boo Boo.

My only point here is, if you are wondering why Edison made so muchmoney and got so much credit, it was due to that basic reason...

Not at all. It's just astonishing to me that you don't seem to understand the fundamentals of it.





You didn't read it either, did you?



Oh...I see! So, if you don't agree with it, then it's just an opinion and not fact, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Gotcha.

Btw, do we have enough evidence showing that JFK was assassinated by more than one person? Or do we need even more evidence to be sure?



I'm talking about the quality of life for the majority of human beings on planet earth.

But what you're doing is ignoring the benefits of Capitalism and concentrating on the negative aspects of it. I don't know why that is because the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.



This coming from someone who ACTUALLY thinks/believes/feels (bolded for newness):

~ ANYONE who wears a hoodie is a racist (when they're not)
~ I'm Isaac (when I'm not)
~ there's a significant difference between the Democrats & the Republicans (when there isn't)
~ there's no difference between Ron Paul's personal beliefs and his political platform (when there is)
~ Ron Paul is a racist (despite the OVERWHELMING evidence showing he isn't)
~ Ron Paul is a Republican (despite technically being a Libertarian)
~ the Ron Paul Revolution was a hoax (when it wasn't)
~ most of Ron Paul's supporters endorsed/joined the Romney/Ryan ticket because they hate black people (when most, if not all of them, didn't and don't)
~ Obama is some kind of saint...despite the FACT he's:
* flip-flopped and downright LIED about almost EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN '08 campaign promise
* owned and operated by the Military Industrial Complex (just like Romney)
* destroyed almost all of the 4th Amendment and part of the 1st Amendment
* has added $6.5 trillion to the debt - which is more than ANY other US President in history...and in only 3 1/2 years - which brings the total to $16.5 trillion
* doesn't know JACK SHIT ALL about economics or fiscal responsibility to save his life and hence is driving the US (and much of the world) into a double-dip recession that will make the current Housing Bubble Crisis look like a CAKE WALK
* wants stricter gun control laws, but is partially responsible for the killings of TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians through collateral damage throughout the Middle East and Afghanistan
~ figures by posting, re-posting and then re-posting again his nonsensical crap & BS claims about Ron Paul, that it provides leverage for his points (despite their baselessness)
~ Ayn Rand is a racist (despite NO compelling evidence showing this is true)
~ Capitalism had NOTHING to do with the Industrial Revolution

Yeah, I know. But don't laugh, folks...this fucker is serious...



Once again, that essay was compiled from 16 different sources. What part of that don't you understand?



I am? Maybe you're right? What's "capitolism"?

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ONE NATION UNDER SOCIALISM



Because of Obamination's spending & socialist BS, America and much of the world will endure one of the worst depressions in history in 5...4...3...2...

You live in a convenient little corner of the world and have seen nothing else in your miserable little life. So don't talk about things you know nothing about.

Th.

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Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from this forum in 2013

Please point me to the post which I made in which I stated that I didn't agree with your essay. I am saying it is an interesting opinion that is supported by some evidence. As the amount of secondary literature on the topic of child labour and the industrial revolution from left, centre and conservative historians is pretty enormous, I consider it unlikely that one fairly brief article is going to contain the absolute truth.

As to your second point I think it proves itself - of course we need more evidence (how can you have too much evidence btw?), particularly if we are going to establish the identity of the other assassins and we want to convince the fairly large group of people who tend to the belief that it was Oswald alone who killed Kennedy.

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The more I learn, the less I know.

I'm sure the Native American culture appreciates this "improvement" about the quality of life bestowed upon them as a direct result of the industrial revolution...

You really are a complete dumb fuck.



This coming from someone who ACTUALLY thinks/believes/feels (bolded for newness):

~ ANYONE who wears a hoodie is a racist (when they're not) (you said that, not me...which is one reason I have suspected you of being that Dumbfuck Boy...but now realise that you even out dumb Isaac, or you are deliberately dumbing down your nonsenese here to cover the fact that you ARE Isaac)
~ I'm Isaac (when I'm not)(I'm not buying it)
~ there's a significant difference between the Democrats & the Republicans (when there isn't)(precisely why you are a dumbfuck...Dumbfuck Boy)
~ there's no difference between Ron Paul's personal beliefs and his political platform (when there is)(even though Ron Paul himself, in his own words, admits that his personal beliefs were how he voted...big fat epic Dumbfuck Boy FAIL)
~ Ron Paul is a racist (despite the OVERWHELMING evidence showing he isn't)(despite the overwhelmoing evidence that he is, hence his newsletters, his KKKampaign KKKontributions and his photo-op with the former head ofthe American Nazi Party and KKK...another big fat epic Dumbfuck Boy FAIL)
~ Ron Paul is a Republican (despite technically being a Libertarian)(despite that Ron Paul calls himself a Republican on his own websight, in his racist newsletters, every singe campaign event, the primaries, the debates and all of his fundraisers...pretty much every single event he was involved with...gawd you are a dolt)
~ the Ron Paul Revolution was a hoax (when it wasn't)(you said that...not me. I would consider the Ron paul Revolution more of a massive failure. He lost. Not exactly breaking news...but you are Dumbfuck Boy afterall)
~ most of Ron Paul's supporters endorsed/joined the Romney/Ryan ticket because they hate black people (when most, if not all of them, didn't and don't)(you don't know if they did or didn't...you never did suppley any links to substantiate your clams on this point...and you likely never will)
~ Obama is some kind of saint...despite the FACT he's: (when and were exactly did I say that?...links?...)
* flip-flopped and downright LIED about almost EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN '08 campaign promise (racist much?)
* owned and operated by the Military Industrial Complex (just like Romney) paranoid much?)
* destroyed almost all of the 4th Amendment and part of the 1st Amendment (he did?...or are you just deluded?...as if I had to ask bwahaahaha)
* has added $6.5 trillion to the debt - which is more than ANY other US President in history...and in only 3 1/2 years - which brings the total to $16.5 trillion(the debt was 12 trillion dollars when he took office...do the math...oh wait...it's Dumbfuck Boy we're all laughing at here...learn some math)
* doesn't know JACK SHIT ALL about economics or fiscal responsibility to save his life and hence is driving the US (and much of the world) into a double-dip recession that will make the current Housing Bubble Crisis look like a CAKE WALK (we'll see if your magical mystical crystal balls still squirt goo...or if it's just the usual pulling shit out of your ass...they were shooting blanks when you predicted that 10 million eople were going to vote for Ron Paul in theprimaries, but never bothered to showed up to vote....you might need some political via-agra to go with your epic fail)
* wants stricter gun control lawsGood...I hope he bans the shit out of hem), but is partially responsible for the killings of TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians through collateral damage throughout the Middle East and Afghanistan (so is Ron Paul...but wait...your newest hero...LAWRENCE W. REED... a cohort of Ron Paul's, was embedded with the assassins called the Contra's...yes the Contra affair Contra's...Dumbfuck boy sure is funny)
~ figures by posting, re-posting and then re-posting again his nonsensical crap & BS claims about Ron Paul, that it provides leverage for his points (despite their baselessness)(coming from a guy who has reposted this exact same post at least 20 times...face it Dumbfuck Boy, you just can't handle being repeatedly procven wrong with actual documented facts.)
~ Ayn Rand is a racist (despite NO compelling evidence showing this is true)(she has an essay all about racism...funny thing is the only source to read it online is on the Nazi websight called Stormfront...I won't bother to post any linksto that piece of shit thats run by other Dumbfuck Boys...also...what about that #1 Best Seller Book she never had, that you claimed she did?...that one was another hoot. Disco fail of epic proportions
~ Capitalism had NOTHING to do with the Industrial Revolution(when and where exactly did I say that? links?)

Yeah, I know. But don't laugh, folks...this fucker is serious...(everybody is too busy laughing at you)



For the first time since you've been on this forum, you actually caught one typing error of mine...ooooh...You sure got me







Don't laugh people, he really is a deluded Dumbfuck....Boy.