Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:46 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:20 pm
Posts: 214
pedro2 wrote:

Capitalism has been going on since on since the first clam was traded for something else.
?


Pretty sure that isn't Capitalism, that's called "Barter & Trade."

_________________
Image

Pudding
Delicious


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3509
Location: Vancouver, BC
phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Yet another excellent rebuttal...and this time, with misquotes! The law firm of Gang Tyre and Brown have you scheduled for a second interview tomorrow...


That's rich, coming from someone who claims he speaks for the dead!


So, FZ wouldn't be laughing his ass off at this thread, even though most of his fans here are leftists, despite FZ's hardcore capitalist stance, not to mention that almost NO ONE here understands what Capitalism is? I bet my LIFE he would be...

You're joking, right?

Please tell me you're joking?

Pretty please?

phydeaux3 wrote:
The psychic firm of Seers, Mystery Man, and Psychotic Arsehole....but I'm sure you've already intuited the rest of the sentence with that massive analytical thingamabobbity of yours.

It's not even the politics that you're interested in, it's WINNING the FIGHT! - count me out, I'm one of The Easybeats...

Disco boy! run to toilet and comb your hair.
Disco boy! pucker your lip, and check your shoulders,
Cause some dandruff might be hiding there.

Dicsore boy, you're the disco king!


Based on recommendations from Gang Tyre and Brown, the Utter Denial Firm of Moron and Dipshit have hired you. You start tomorrow! Congratulations!

polydigm wrote:
This is what happens when people insist on using the word capitalism to apply to economic activity like a lot of people these days use classical to apply to music. It's lost it's essential meaning from when it was first coined. Capitalism becomes possible when the ability to produce surplus value significantly exceeds the social need to immediately consume it, in hand with a well established form of money wealth. Capitalism may thrive on trade, but trade in itself does not equal capitalism. Trading a sheep for some wheat does not make you a capitalist. A true, fully fledged capitalist is an entity that has accumulated enough capital in order to privately own and independently run a slice of the means of production and thereafter expand it's net worth purely from the production and accumulation of surplus value.


No polydigm, Capitalism is strictly dealing with economic activity...in its variety of forms. And capital = money. And hence ANYONE making money, whether they're poor, middle class or rich are making capital - it's not exclusive to wealthy people making it. And ONCE AGAIN, what you post above is only PART of what Capitalism or capital is...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capital


cap·i·tal 1 (kp-tl)
n.
1.
a. A town or city that is the official seat of government in a political entity, such as a state or nation.
b. A city that is the center of a specific activity or industry: the financial capital of the world.
2.
a. Wealth in the form of money or property, used or accumulated in a business by a person, partnership, or corporation.
b. Material wealth used or available for use in the production of more wealth.
c. Human resources considered in terms of their contributions to an economy: "[The] swift unveiling of his . . . plans provoked a flight of human capital" (George F. Will).
3. Accounting The remaining assets of a business after all liabilities have been deducted; net worth.
4. Capital stock.
5. Capitalists considered as a group or class.
6. An asset or advantage: "profited from political capital accumulated by others" (Michael Mandelbaum).
7. A capital letter.
adj.
1. First and foremost; principal: a decision of capital importance.
2. First-rate; excellent: a capital idea.
3. Relating to or being a seat of government.
4. Extremely serious: a capital blunder.
5. Involving death or calling for the death penalty: a capital offense.
6. Of or relating to financial assets, especially being or related to those financial assets that add to the net worth of a business: made capital improvements at the plant site.
7. Relating to or being a capital letter.

cap·i·tal 2 (kp-tl)
n. Architecture
The top part of a pillar or column.

capital 1
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy)
a. the seat of government of a country or other political unit
b. (as modifier) a capital city
2. (Economics) material wealth owned by an individual or business enterprise
3. (Economics) wealth available for or capable of use in the production of further wealth, as by industrial investment
make capital (out) of to get advantage from
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (sometimes capital) the capitalist class or their interests capital versus labour
6. (Economics, Accounting & Finance / Accounting & Book-keeping) Accounting
a. the ownership interests of a business as represented by the excess of assets over liabilities
b. the nominal value of the authorized or issued shares
c. (as modifier) capital issues
7. any assets or resources, esp when used to gain profit or advantage
8. (Communication Arts / Printing, Lithography & Bookbinding)
a. a capital letter Abbreviations cap cap
b. (as modifier) capital B
with a capital A, B, etc (used to give emphasis to a statement) he is mean with a capital M
adj
1. (Law) (prenominal) Law involving or punishable by death a capital offence
2. very serious; fatal a capital error
3. primary, chief, or principal our capital concern is that everyone be fed
4. (Communication Arts / Printing, Lithography & Bookbinding) of, relating to, or designating the large modern majuscule letter used chiefly as the initial letter in personal names and place names and other uniquely specificatory nouns, and often for abbreviations and acronyms Compare small [9] See also upper case
5. Chiefly Brit excellent; first-rate a capital idea
[from Latin capitālis (adj) concerning the head, chief, from caput head; compare Medieval Latin capitāle (n) wealth, from capitālis (adj)]

capital 2
n
(Fine Arts & Visual Arts / Architecture) the upper part of a column or pier that supports the entablature Also called chapiter cap
[from Old French capitel, from Late Latin capitellum, diminutive of caput head]

capital

SYNONYMS

noun
money, funds, stock, investment(s), property, cash, finance, finances, financing, resources, assets, wealth, principal, means, wherewithal, wonga (slang) The company is having difficulties in raising capital.
adjective
1. upper case, block The name and address are written in capital letters.
2. (Old-fashioned) first-rate, fine, excellent, superb, sterling, splendid, world-class



--------------------------------------------



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capitalism


cap·i·tal·ism (kp-tl-zm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

capitalism [ˈkæpɪtəˌlɪzəm]
n
(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise Compare socialism [1]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

capitalism
a system of economics under which ownership of and investment in the means of production and distribution depends chiefly upon corporations and private individuals. — capitalist, n. — capitalistic, adj.
See also: Economics
a theory or system in which property and investment in business; are owned and controlled by individuals directly or through ownership of shares in companies. Cf. communism. — capitalist, n., adj. — capitalistic, adj.

capitalism

SYNONYMS

noun private enterprise, free enterprise, private ownership, laissez faire or laisser faire

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2164
pedro2 wrote:
what government are you talking about ?


The government you were born into, of course. The government that handed you capitalism. I don't know why you started talking about clams.


btw, I'm a capitalist. I understand the definition.





The Way Forward
Everyone who is making less than $200,000 a year should stop having children for the next 50 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:38 am
Posts: 231
Location: The Land of the Ice & Snow
downer mydnyte wrote:
The Way Forward
Everyone should stop having (so many) children (so quickly).

I like the way this sounds a bit better. While it's frankly overwhelmingly stupid for people who live below a certain line of poverty to have vast quantities of children (which many in my family are guilty of, my own parents included), it's equally as harmful for those with significantly more wealth, even if they are by some measure of the terminology more "qualified" for child-rearing, given their socioeconomic status. Because at the end of the day, somebody's gotta take twenty-to-thirty minutes (at least, if not more) out of their day and just be with their child(ren) for a while, share interests with them, talk with them, and love them. If nobody does that simple act, those kids will grow up to be the same, bitter, greedy, argumentative hermits their parents were, debating the merits of a society in which the value of an item is relative only to how badly you want it, not how badly you need it.

_________________
Oh No! I don't believe it...
You say that you think you know the meaning of love...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:09 pm
Posts: 727
Location: Australia
Disco Boy wrote:
phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Yet another excellent rebuttal...and this time, with misquotes! The law firm of Gang Tyre and Brown have you scheduled for a second interview tomorrow...


That's rich, coming from someone who claims he speaks for the dead!


So, FZ wouldn't be laughing his ass off at this thread, even though most of his fans here are leftists, despite FZ's hardcore capitalist stance, not to mention that almost NO ONE here understands what Capitalism is? I bet my LIFE he would be...

You're joking, right?

Please tell me you're joking?

Pretty please?




"How funny to read this, too bad Isaac self censored many of his comments. I am shocked to be reminded of how deluded one person can be! It was so desperately important to him that Frank share his every world view, he manufactured an entire reality where anything Frank said he didn't like, was "sarcasm". Amazing! " FOWL


I don't know how to put the link in, but it's Documentaries, p.4, 4th post from the top.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:22 am
Posts: 912
schvanzbass wrote:
pedro2 wrote:

Capitalism has been going on since on since the first clam was traded for something else.


Pretty sure that isn't Capitalism, that's called "Barter & Trade."



pedro2 wrote:
Capitalism evolved as a result of the free enterprise system. It was not the cause of the free market and ever since one cave man uttered sounds , that we now call words , to another cave man that he might have something he might like .... for a price , the seeds of the free market were spread.





Did I miss anything ? :wink:



Now , Downer , is it your belief that some ' government ' created a mint to produce shiny little metal coins and then created a system in which those shiny little coins could be traded in ? :?

I don't know why you bring up governments unless it's to agree that the first governments represented at least more than 2 people who were trading beans for corn. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3509
Location: Vancouver, BC
phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
So, FZ wouldn't be laughing his ass off at this thread, even though most of his fans here are leftists, despite FZ's hardcore capitalist stance, not to mention that almost NO ONE here understands what Capitalism is? I bet my LIFE he would be...

You're joking, right?

Please tell me you're joking?

Pretty please?




"How funny to read this, too bad Isaac self censored many of his comments. I am shocked to be reminded of how deluded one person can be! It was so desperately important to him that Frank share his every world view, he manufactured an entire reality where anything Frank said he didn't like, was "sarcasm". Amazing! " FOWL


I don't know how to put the link in, but it's Documentaries, p.4, 4th post from the top.


Translation:

I know Disco Boy is correct but I can't allow myself to admit it publicly.


And btw, just because I've made the point that FZ HATED Socialism/Communism and was a hardcore Capitalist, doesn't mean that it's desperately important that Frank shared my every world view. It just so happens that many of my world views are similar to FZ's. But there are things about FZ I didn't like, you know? For example, his open marriage, or even some of the Synclavier or Flo & Eddie material, etc...

:roll:

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2164
Stop breeding. Let these people who are living like kings start wiping their own asses.

If all of the poor people stopped having kids overnight, for years, all of the people who are running the show right now would shit their pants because they wouldn't have all of those poor families to exploit and enslave.
Obviously, it'll never happen. Survival of the fucked up, brain damaged species is too important, I guess.

Besides, The poor are greedy, too. Most of them want to be where the greedy assholes are now. Meanwhile they are shoving each other around at Goodwill and Wal Mart.

......And the fool above me who thinks it's possible to be correct about everything all of the time, I bet he's afraid to clean his own toilet. What would a man like that do if situations actually forced him to survive with very little money? He'd probably stop being a miserable coward.

Me? I'm just passing through. You all can have this planet. Like flies fighting over a pile of shit.

The only true value in this world is the value of one's spirit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 18892
Location: Somewhere in time
Disco Boy wrote:
...there are things about FZ I didn't like, you know? For example...Flo & Eddie material...



AaaaHA!...that explains the denial of the actual social and career changing impact of the White Album...ta ta ta, never let personal opinion skew historical accuracy... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 18892
Location: Somewhere in time
downer mydnyte wrote:
Stop breeding. Let these people who are living like kings start wiping their own asses.

If all of the poor people stopped having kids overnight, for years, all of the people who are running the show right now would shit their pants because they wouldn't have all of those poor families to exploit and enslave.
Obviously, it'll never happen. Survival of the fucked up, brain damaged species is too important, I guess.

Besides, The poor are greedy, too. Most of them want to be where the greedy assholes are now. Meanwhile they are shoving each other around at Goodwill and Wal Mart.

......And the fool above me who thinks it's possible to be correct about everything all of the time, I bet he's afraid to clean his own toilet. What would a man like that do if situations actually forced him to survive with very little money? He'd probably stop being a miserable coward.

Me? I'm just passing through. You all can have this planet. Like flies fighting over a pile of shit.

The only true value in this world is the value of one's spirit.



Ya all aware that the World Birth rate is down right? You also know US birth rate is way down as well as Latino birth rates... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2164
Plook wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Stop breeding. Let these people who are living like kings start wiping their own asses.

If all of the poor people stopped having kids overnight, for years, all of the people who are running the show right now would shit their pants because they wouldn't have all of those poor families to exploit and enslave.
Obviously, it'll never happen. Survival of the fucked up, brain damaged species is too important, I guess.

Besides, The poor are greedy, too. Most of them want to be where the greedy assholes are now. Meanwhile they are shoving each other around at Goodwill and Wal Mart.

......And the fool above me who thinks it's possible to be correct about everything all of the time, I bet he's afraid to clean his own toilet.

Me? I'm just passing through. You all can have this planet. Like flies fighting over a pile of shit.

The only true value in this world is the value of your spirit.



Ya all aware that the World Birth rate is down right? You also know US birth rate is way down as well as Latino birth rates... :smoke:


I've heard that, yes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
calvin2hikers wrote:
Everybody uses blanket statements all the time.
calvin2hikers wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Yet every blanket does not use a body all the time.
You can't blanket all of the people all of the time.
I don't know if you really believe that's true when previously you invoked the biggest blanket of all.
calvin2hikers wrote:
Everybody uses blanket statements all the time.
That's a pretty damn big, and wet, blanket. ( :mrgreen: just in case it's not obvious ...)

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13138
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
Disco Boy wrote:
there are things about FZ I didn't like, you know? For example, his open marriage, or even some of the Synclavier or Flo & Eddie material, etc...

Say it ain't so bro'! :mrgreen:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
A true, fully fledged capitalist is an entity that has accumulated enough capital in order to privately own and independently run a slice of the means of production and thereafter expand it's net worth purely from the production and accumulation of surplus value.
No polydigm, Capitalism is strictly dealing with economic activity...in its variety of forms. And capital = money. And hence ANYONE making money, whether they're poor, middle class or rich are making capital - it's not exclusive to wealthy people making it. And ONCE AGAIN, what you post above is only PART of what Capitalism or capital is...
No polydigm, read my shiny fucking dictionary!! Ooh err ...
1 Capital Cities ... blah fucking blah ...
... [capital cities, yeah, big fucking deal ... the use and abuse of language in English in general is not a deal breaker when it comes to an argument ...]
...
2.
a. Wealth in the form of money or property, used or accumulated in a business by a person, partnership, or corporation. [ie, not everybody, but only a fairly exclusive minority]
b. Material wealth used or available for use in the production of more wealth. [... like I said ...]
c. Human resources considered in terms of their contributions to an economy: "[The] swift unveiling of his . . . plans provoked a flight of human capital" (George F. Will). [Such uses of the word do not negate the specific meaning that is being argued about here in a system where a small majority gets to bathe in the majority of the wealth ... This aspect of capitalism is not being addressed by these semanticians ... poor ones at that ... ]
3. Accounting The remaining assets of a business after all liabilities have been deducted; net worth. [... see no. 2b ...]
4. Capital stock. [... see no. 2b and no. 2c ...]
5. Capitalists considered as a group or class. [... we know how these guys make a living ...]
...
...
6. Of or relating to financial assets, especially being or related to those financial assets that add to the net worth of a business: made capital improvements at the plant site. [... this is it's meaning as in connection with the substance of the means of production ...]

n. Architecture: [... are you fucking kidding ... enrol in a high level course of mathematics or economics at a university and turn up to a tutorial with a fucking dictionary as a source for an argument ... what are you 13? ...]
...
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (sometimes capital) the capitalist class or their interests capital versus labour [so you're saying this capitalist class is nearly everybody? ...]

7. any assets or resources, esp when used to gain profit or advantage [... close ...]

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. [... yes!! ...]

(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise [... and how many people own the majority of the means of production in this beautiful capitalist system of ours? ... a very small percentage of the total population ...]

a system of economics under which ownership of and investment in the means of production and distribution depends chiefly upon corporations and private individuals. [... how many people qualify as private individuals in this sense ... very few ...]

See also: Economics
a theory or system in which property and investment in business; are owned and controlled by individuals directly or through ownership of shares in companies. [... and who are the major shareholders, the ones who get to make the important fucking decisions? ...]

Seriously, you got your education out of a fucking dictionary??

The fact remains, however you slice it, this modern capitalist system whatever the fuck you call it, can only be exploited fully by a select few, I don't give a shit about your pathetic semantic arguments only about the fact that the majority of the people who live on this planet live in poverty and have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
And please, don't presume to speak on behalf of FZ. If he wanted a fucking complete retard to be the ambassador of his opinions into the twenty first century he would have appointed Gary Titone. Your only claim to any self respect is that you are not as retarted [sic] as he is ... maybe ....

Zappa never called himself a hard core capitalist ... find where he said that ... his views were a lot more subtle and well considered than that ... he was well aware of who was really in power in America and got to experience it first hand when Havel came calling. I will find the quote (anyone?) where he says something like "... if you push them hard enough the curtain will be drawn to reveal the brick wall at the back of the stage ...". I'm not holding my breath to hear the retard's interpretation of that quote.

You talk about government like somehow it's more powerful than the true capitalist class in this world today ... that is already way too naive to be believed ...

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:22 am
Posts: 912
downer mydnyte wrote:

......And the fool above me who thinks it's possible to be correct about everything all of the time, I bet he's afraid to clean his own toilet. What would a man like that do if situations actually forced him to survive with very little money? He'd probably stop being a miserable coward.



Been there many times , Downer . Been down so bad I DID clean toilets , for 50.00 a week. Camped out in a tiny room that cost me 20 bucks a week for a year, too . Me and many more on this forum have come from the gutter and worked our way back up and if you don't think I scrape by on my measly 15k a year , after being taxed to death , come on over . We'll have some corn & beans.

Now what miserable coward would invite you over , anyway ?
Come to Cincinnasty and you can bring your downers , then I'll have to ask you to leave .
Negative people like you always bring me down. :wink: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2164
I
pedro2 wrote:
Now what miserable coward would invite you over , anyway ?
Come to Cincinnasty and you can bring your downers , then I'll have to ask you to leave .
Negative people like you always bring me down. :wink: :lol:


I'm not negative. Just a slight misunderstanding. My fault. I was referring to Disco Boy when I made the "cleaning toilets" remark. And the coward remark. But I'm sure he probably scraped his way up from the bottom, too. Actually, I doubt it. But I didn't directly call him a miserable coward. I wouldn't do that. I don't think he's anything I have a name for. And I don't really mean to call names. Name calling is so lame, particularly online. But DB does it often, so fuck him. I never get mad here, dude. Sorry you read that statement as a dis on you. It was not about you at all. I don't think I am any better than you.

I promise you there is nothing I say on this forum that I would not say in person. Of course, conversations shift into strange gears online that maybe would not happen face to face. I get sucked in to making some of these statements. I'm weak! Whatever. I never get offended. I am not here trying to insult anyone. I'm laughing. Maybe I need to use the damn smileys.

Cincinnati? Hometown of Bootsy and Catfish Collins. Been there. Got friends nearby.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3509
Location: Vancouver, BC
polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
A true, fully fledged capitalist is an entity that has accumulated enough capital in order to privately own and independently run a slice of the means of production and thereafter expand it's net worth purely from the production and accumulation of surplus value.
No polydigm, Capitalism is strictly dealing with economic activity...in its variety of forms. And capital = money. And hence ANYONE making money, whether they're poor, middle class or rich are making capital - it's not exclusive to wealthy people making it. And ONCE AGAIN, what you post above is only PART of what Capitalism or capital is...
No polydigm, read my shiny fucking dictionary!! Ooh err ...
1 Capital Cities ... blah fucking blah ...
... [capital cities, yeah, big fucking deal ... the use and abuse of language in English in general is not a deal breaker when it comes to an argument ...]
...
2.
a. Wealth in the form of money or property, used or accumulated in a business by a person, partnership, or corporation. [ie, not everybody, but only a fairly exclusive minority]
b. Material wealth used or available for use in the production of more wealth. [... like I said ...]
c. Human resources considered in terms of their contributions to an economy: "[The] swift unveiling of his . . . plans provoked a flight of human capital" (George F. Will). [Such uses of the word do not negate the specific meaning that is being argued about here in a system where a small majority gets to bathe in the majority of the wealth ... This aspect of capitalism is not being addressed by these semanticians ... poor ones at that ... ]
3. Accounting The remaining assets of a business after all liabilities have been deducted; net worth. [... see no. 2b ...]
4. Capital stock. [... see no. 2b and no. 2c ...]
5. Capitalists considered as a group or class. [... we know how these guys make a living ...]
...
...
6. Of or relating to financial assets, especially being or related to those financial assets that add to the net worth of a business: made capital improvements at the plant site. [... this is it's meaning as in connection with the substance of the means of production ...]

n. Architecture: [... are you fucking kidding ... enrol in a high level course of mathematics or economics at a university and turn up to a tutorial with a fucking dictionary as a source for an argument ... what are you 13? ...]
...
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (sometimes capital) the capitalist class or their interests capital versus labour [so you're saying this capitalist class is nearly everybody? ...]

7. any assets or resources, esp when used to gain profit or advantage [... close ...]

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. [... yes!! ...]

(Economics) an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions Also called free enterprise private enterprise [... and how many people own the majority of the means of production in this beautiful capitalist system of ours? ... a very small percentage of the total population ...]

a system of economics under which ownership of and investment in the means of production and distribution depends chiefly upon corporations and private individuals. [... how many people qualify as private individuals in this sense ... very few ...]

See also: Economics
a theory or system in which property and investment in business; are owned and controlled by individuals directly or through ownership of shares in companies. [... and who are the major shareholders, the ones who get to make the important fucking decisions? ...]

Seriously, you got your education out of a fucking dictionary??

The fact remains, however you slice it, this modern capitalist system whatever the fuck you call it, can only be exploited fully by a select few, I don't give a shit about your pathetic semantic arguments only about the fact that the majority of the people who live on this planet live in poverty and have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit.

And please, don't presume to speak on behalf of FZ. If he wanted a fucking complete retard to be the ambassador of his opinions into the twenty first century he would have appointed Gary Titone. Your only claim to any self respect is that you are not as retarted [sic] as he is ... maybe ....

Zappa never called himself a hard core capitalist ... find where he said that ... his views were a lot more subtle and well considered than that ... he was well aware of who was really in power in America and got to experience it first hand when Havel came calling. I will find the quote (anyone?) where he says something like "... if you push them hard enough the curtain will be drawn to reveal the brick wall at the back of the stage ...". I'm not holding my breath to hear the retard's interpretation of that quote.

You talk about government like somehow it's more powerful than the true capitalist class in this world today ... that is already way too naive to be believed ...


Image

I think you would score an A+ in both history AND linguistic revisionism. Unfuckingbelievable. :shock:

And no, I don't get my education from a "fucking dictionary??" But I do get definitions of words from the dictionary, unlike morons like yourself who try to revise them.

Secondly, I NEVER said that Frank said himself that he was a hardcore Capitalist, but he WAS nevertheless. And this was because he became an entrepreneur by his mid '20s and built his BUSINESS from the ground up. He owned several record companies (Straight, Bizarre, Zappa, Barking Pumpkin & DiscReet Records), a video company (Honker Home Video) and made TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS (CAPITAL) by recording albums, singles, selling merchandise and touring...

Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...

Lastly, here's an exact quote from an interview Frank Zappa did with "The New Music" before the Maple Leaf Gardens show in Toronto on Nov. 9, 1981:

(6:37-6:41)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0phUpDPA4

"No, I don't want to work for the Communists! FUCK the Communists! You know, I don't like those people!"

I really hate the throw you in the same pile as tweedle-dumb & tweedle-dee but you've more than crossed the line and this has to be said: you are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT...

:roll:

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Disco Boy wrote:
I think you would score an A+ in both history AND linguistic revisionism. And no, I don't get my education from a "fucking dictionary??" But I do get definitions of words from the dictionary, unlike morons like yourself who try to revise them.
I didn't revise anything in that dictionary, I just pointed out that you hadn't read it yourself. And besides that, having someone point out that a term can be used for multiple meanings is not an argument. In a serious debate the point is to define your own terms precisely. Something you're incapable of. You're much more comfortable when you can cause and then hide behind a misunderstanding. No-one in a serious intellectual debate uses a dictionary. Only the lost souls failing exams and using a dictionary instead of having studied the specialist language of their subject.
Disco Boy wrote:
Secondly, I NEVER said that Frank said himself that he was a hardcore Capitalist, but he WAS nevertheless.
Nonetheless you are presuming to know him and again you are using blurry language. What is a hardcore capitalist anyway? Is that in your shiny dictionary?
Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
I didn't say they did. It would help if you could at least answer what I'm saying instead of what you've made up that I'm saying. I just said they have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit. I'm sure most people know what I mean by that and don't need it spelled out. You on the other hand, well, good luck ...
Disco Boy wrote:
... you've more than crossed the line and this has to be said: you are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT...
The last refuge of the total failure, grasp the shit on the ground and chuck it around and see what sticks. My god, is that the best you've got? When are you going to publish it? Seems like real PhD material ...

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5661
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I think you would score an A+ in both history AND linguistic revisionism. And no, I don't get my education from a "fucking dictionary??" But I do get definitions of words from the dictionary, unlike morons like yourself who try to revise them.
I didn't revise anything in that dictionary, I just pointed out that you hadn't read it yourself. And besides that, having someone point out that a term can be used for multiple meanings is not an argument. In a serious debate the point is to define your own terms precisely. Something you're incapable of. You're much more comfortable when you can cause and then hide behind a misunderstanding. No-one in a serious intellectual debate uses a dictionary. Only the lost souls failing exams and using a dictionary instead of having studied the specialist language of their subject.
Disco Boy wrote:
Secondly, I NEVER said that Frank said himself that he was a hardcore Capitalist, but he WAS nevertheless.
Nonetheless you are presuming to know him and again you are using blurry language. What is a hardcore capitalist anyway? Is that in your shiny dictionary?
Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
I didn't say they did. It would help if you could at least answer what I'm saying instead of what you've made up that I'm saying. I just said they have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit. I'm sure most people know what I mean by that and don't need it spelled out. You on the other hand, well, good luck ...
Disco Boy wrote:
... you've more than crossed the line and this has to be said: you are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT...
The last refuge of the total failure, grasp the shit on the ground and chuck it around and see what sticks. My god, is that the best you've got? When are you going to publish it? Seems like real PhD material ...



Good to see somebody else recognise that. 8)

Polydigm hits the nail on the head, so to speak.

Where else have we seen the repeated use of the words "I NEVER said that" on the Zappa forum?....hmmmm....I wonder... :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:22 am
Posts: 912
downer mydnyte wrote:

Cincinnati? Hometown of Bootsy and Catfish Collins. Been there. Got friends nearby.


Cool , stop on by and I'll give Boots a call and see if he's in town and up for a funk 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3509
Location: Vancouver, BC
polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I think you would score an A+ in both history AND linguistic revisionism. And no, I don't get my education from a "fucking dictionary??" But I do get definitions of words from the dictionary, unlike morons like yourself who try to revise them.
I didn't revise anything in that dictionary, I just pointed out that you hadn't read it yourself. And besides that, having someone point out that a term can be used for multiple meanings is not an argument. In a serious debate the point is to define your own terms precisely. Something you're incapable of. You're much more comfortable when you can cause and then hide behind a misunderstanding. No-one in a serious intellectual debate uses a dictionary. Only the lost souls failing exams and using a dictionary instead of having studied the specialist language of their subject.


Wtf? I read what you wrote. You typed in your own definitions directly after the actual definitions. My whole point was based on the FACT that you refuted that the words "capital" and "Capitalism" have multiple meanings when it comes to economics. I then provided the definitions supporting my points that PROVED you were WRONG. What part of this do you not understand?! :roll:

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Secondly, I NEVER said that Frank said himself that he was a hardcore Capitalist, but he WAS nevertheless.
Nonetheless you are presuming to know him and again you are using blurry language. What is a hardcore capitalist anyway? Is that in your shiny dictionary?


Blurry language?!

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

FZ became an entrepreneur by his mid '20s and built his BUSINESS from the ground up. He owned several record companies (Straight, Bizarre, Zappa, Barking Pumpkin & DiscReet Records), a video company (Honker Home Video) and made TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS (CAPITAL) by recording albums, singles, selling merchandise and touring...

So if ANYBODY qualifies as a hardcore Capitalist, Frank sure as fucking hell did... :roll:

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
I didn't say they did. It would help if you could at least answer what I'm saying instead of what you've made up that I'm saying. I just said they have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit. I'm sure most people know what I mean by that and don't need it spelled out. You on the other hand, well, good luck ...


No, this is what you said:

polydigm wrote:
I don't give a shit about your pathetic semantic arguments only about the fact that the majority of the people who live on this planet live in poverty and have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit.


And I said:

Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
:roll:


Which is true, since Capitalist and/or Mixed Economies comprise the majority of the world population. And hence what you're saying is NOT true. :roll:

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
... you've more than crossed the line and this has to be said: you are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT...
The last refuge of the total failure, grasp the shit on the ground and chuck it around and see what sticks. My god, is that the best you've got? When are you going to publish it? Seems like real PhD material ...


ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

You are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT.


Study up and hit the books...

:roll:

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Disco Boy wrote:
Wtf? I read what you wrote. You typed in your own definitions directly after the actual definitions. My whole point was based on the FACT that you refuted that the words "capital" and "Capitalism" have multiple meanings when it comes to economics. I then provided the definitions supporting my points that PROVED you were WRONG. What part of this do you not understand?!
Again, I didn't refute anything, I just showed that there is a meaning in there that I could use, but the fact that English has multiple meanings for words is not an argument against any one of them. This is why academics don't use dictionaries they use the accepted language of their field which is something else altogether from your piss ante dictionary jousting.
Disco Boy wrote:
So if ANYBODY qualifies as a hardcore Capitalist, Frank sure as fucking hell did...
FZ was a very successful petit bourgeois. He was not a major player in the US economy as a whole. Hence, not "hardcore".
Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
I didn't say they did. It would help if you could at least answer what I'm saying instead of what you've made up that I'm saying. I just said they have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit. I'm sure most people know what I mean by that and don't need it spelled out. You on the other hand, well, good luck ...

No, this is what you said:
polydigm wrote:
I don't give a shit about your pathetic semantic arguments only about the fact that the majority of the people who live on this planet live in poverty and have had their lives reshaped for the worse by imperialists who only care about making profit.
And I said:
Disco Boy wrote:
Thirdly, most of the population of the world that live in poverty do NOT live in Capitalist Economies (or possibly even in Mixed Economies), genius...
Which is true, since Capitalist and/or Mixed Economies comprise the majority of the world population. And hence what you're saying is NOT true.
Sorry weren't you trying to say the opposite ... or not ... which is it ... toss that coin again ...

You have quoted me twice and shown the world that on both occasions you've failed to actually read what's written. I did not make a claim one way or the other about percentages of population in one type of economy or another. US big business does not give a shit about government boundaries when it comes to imperialist behaviour, that's all I'm talking about. You obviously can't read. Nor can you even agree with yourself.
Disco Boy wrote:
ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.: You are a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT.
You're the expert, clearly.
Disco Boy wrote:
Study up and hit the books...
I would suggest you try this yourself, but you'd better get reading lessons first.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2164
Disco Boy wrote:

Study up and hit the books...

polydigm wrote:
I would suggest you try this yourself, but you'd better get reading lessons first.

I suggest actual real life experience.
Take that textbook data out to the real world and see where it gets you. Try logging off.

pedro2 wrote:
Cool , stop on by and I'll give Boots a call and see if he's in town and up for a funk 8)

I'm not sure this wasn't some kind of veiled threat. hahaha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:22 am
Posts: 912
Not at all.
He stops by the shop every few months to see if we have any new gear in the works.

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group