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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:49 pm 
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It's the venues fault. The Beacon is expensive to rent.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:22 pm 
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coevad wrote:
It's the venues fault. The Beacon is expensive to rent.


That's only part of the reason. It's primarily the market demand's fault...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:25 pm 
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I say it's the tickets fault! "Ooh, we want to be overpriced, we're so special!"

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
coevad wrote:
It's the venues fault. The Beacon is expensive to rent.


That's only part of the reason. It's primarily the market demand's fault...


Do you think it will sell out ? Close to 2900 seats is alot for them to fill. Esp at those prices, even in NYC. The Blender didn't sell out on Halloween and that was a 500 seat hall.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:08 pm 
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It might sell out because it has the traditional FZ Halloween aura about it. That would be an anomaly though, imo. ZPZ isn't as good as they used to be, and they don't sell out much anymore. At least here in the Chicago area, which has supported FZ 's music very well over the years.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:05 pm 
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OBDULA X wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
coevad wrote:
It's the venues fault. The Beacon is expensive to rent.


That's only part of the reason. It's primarily the market demand's fault...


Do you think it will sell out ? Close to 2900 seats is alot for them to fill. Esp at those prices, even in NYC.


Like I said earlier in this thread, as long as there are no other NYC/NJ area shows this year, the show in question will be sold out or very close to by showtime...

OBDULA X wrote:
The Blender didn't sell out on Halloween and that was a 500 seat hall.


First of all, the You Can't Fit On Stage Anymore tour had to have extremely high ticket prices because ZPZ specifically wanted to play very small venues. Also, ZPZ played THREE shows at the Blender Theatre during Halloween week in 2008...but you're only referring to one of the shows. And not only that, but ZPZ played four or five shows in the NYC/NJ area in 2008...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
You Can't Fit On Stage Anymore tour had to have extremely high ticket prices because ZPZ specifically wanted to play very small venues.


Only a rube believes that. For example (compelling evidence/proof) :Mike Watt charges 15 dollars. His prices are low because of all the deliberate steps he has taken in his 30+ year career to be where he is today. It's total bullshit that Dweezil can't make less money if he wanted to. Total fucking bullshit.
And Mike Watt blows ZPZ away. You should have heard his challenging new album played live and the encore of Hendrix Machine Gun. I don't wanna argue with you about it I'm just here to call bullshit on ZPZ. They could charge less. The market is an excuse. Some people choose to serve the music and NOT the music industry. Thankfully.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:14 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
You Can't Fit On Stage Anymore tour had to have extremely high ticket prices because ZPZ specifically wanted to play very small venues.


Only a rube believes that. For example (compelling evidence/proof) :Mike Watt charges 15 dollars. His prices are low because of all the deliberate steps he has taken in his 30+ year career to be where he is today. It's total bullshit that Dweezil can't make less money if he wanted to. Total fucking bullshit.
And Mike Watt blows ZPZ away. You should have heard his challenging new album played live and the encore of Hendrix Machine Gun. I don't wanna argue with you about it I'm just here to call bullshit on ZPZ. They could charge less. The market is an excuse. Some people choose to serve the music and NOT the music industry. Thankfully.


Perfectly said ! Greed. If you want to expand the audience....Lower the price ! You won't get many of the younger kids going at that price. Not even in NYC.

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Last edited by OBDULA X on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:41 pm 
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OBDULA X wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
coevad wrote:
It's the venues fault. The Beacon is expensive to rent.


That's only part of the reason. It's primarily the market demand's fault...


Do you think it will sell out ? Close to 2900 seats is alot for them to fill. Esp at those prices, even in NYC. The Blender didn't sell out on Halloween and that was a 500 seat hall.


Zpz on Halloween can't sell out a 500 seat hall? Only 1 of the Blender shows sold out. I don't care how many shows they played in the area. Zappa... Halloween ? They better pull out some alumni. They will need it for Roxy. :shock: No matter, I won't pay that price. Nor will alot of other people. Except for the 1%ers like Kirk. I think I paid $100 for Roger Waters playing The Wall. One Of the best concerts ever...next to the original.

Frank always had very affordable ticket prices. I wonder why ?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:24 pm 
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OBDULA X wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
You Can't Fit On Stage Anymore tour had to have extremely high ticket prices because ZPZ specifically wanted to play very small venues.


Only a rube believes that. For example (compelling evidence/proof) :Mike Watt charges 15 dollars. His prices are low because of all the deliberate steps he has taken in his 30+ year career to be where he is today. It's total bullshit that Dweezil can't make less money if he wanted to. Total fucking bullshit.
And Mike Watt blows ZPZ away. You should have heard his challenging new album played live and the encore of Hendrix Machine Gun. I don't wanna argue with you about it I'm just here to call bullshit on ZPZ. They could charge less. The market is an excuse. Some people choose to serve the music and NOT the music industry. Thankfully.


Perfectly said ! Greed. If you want to expand the audience....Lower the price ! You won't get many of the younger kids going at that price. Not even in NYC.


OBDULA X wrote:
Zpz on Halloween can't sell out a 500 seat hall? Only 1 of the Blender shows sold out. I don't care how many shows they played in the area. Zappa... Halloween ? They better pull out some alumni. They will need it for Roxy. :shock: No matter, I won't pay that price. Nor will alot of other people. Except for the 1%ers like Kirk. I think I paid $100 for Roger Waters playing The Wall. One Of the best concerts ever...next to the original.

Frank always had very affordable ticket prices. I wonder why ?


Guys, you couldn't more wrong if you tried. And unfortunately, you more than obviously don't understand the laws of supply and demand.

Btw, Mike Watt doesn't charge high prices simply because he's not that popular and wouldn't be able to.

And Frank had lower prices (just like almost everyone else at the time) when he was touring because costs, expenses, etc., were significantly lower back then... :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Some musicians choose to keep a low profile because with mass popularity comes mass compromise.

Just because you can get away with charging $200 for a concert ticket doesn't mean you have to do it. There are choices. Only a very few rock stars have actual guns to their backs.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:47 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Only a rube believes that. For example (compelling evidence/proof) :Mike Watt charges 15 dollars. His prices are low because of all the deliberate steps he has taken in his 30+ year career to be where he is today. It's total bullshit that Dweezil can't make less money if he wanted to. Total fucking bullshit.
And Mike Watt blows ZPZ away. You should have heard his challenging new album played live and the encore of Hendrix Machine Gun. I don't wanna argue with you about it I'm just here to call bullshit on ZPZ. They could charge less. The market is an excuse. Some people choose to serve the music and NOT the music industry. Thankfully.

Mike Watt totally kicks fuckin' ass! So do the Minutemen, one of my favorite groups of all time. fIREHOSE was awesome too. It's too bad I can't get my hands on Watt's latest album, I hear it's terrific!.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Btw, Mike Watt doesn't charge high prices simply because he's not that popular and wouldn't be able to.


Say that to Ian MacKaye. I dare you. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Frank could have got alot more than he was getting even on the 88 tour.

I do understand supply and demand. More people are demanding lower ticket prices. Do The Stones or even Aerosmith NEED to charge So much for tickets ? Not even......Greed.

Beacon Theatre
New York, NY
Dec. 17, 2010
$172,590
2,709 /
2,794
1 /
0
$95, $70, $45, $35
$63.71
Live Nation

In 3 years top price goes up $60....Holy shit !

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:03 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Btw, Mike Watt doesn't charge high prices simply because he's not that popular and wouldn't be able to.


Say that to Ian MacKaye. I dare you. :wink:

DB doesn't seem to know the FACT that Watt could have easily (in the 80s and 90's) played the muzik biz game, censored himself, watered down his music, kissed muzik executive ass and been a rockstar if he had chosen that artistically bankrupt and shallow path.

Every professional cover band is in it for the money.That's fine but don't try to pretend it's anything more than a product. Or maybe it's the only way these geeks can get laid.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:41 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Some musicians choose to keep a low profile because with mass popularity comes mass compromise.

Just because you can get away with charging $200 for a concert ticket doesn't mean you have to do it. There are choices. Only a very few rock stars have actual guns to their backs.


While that can be true for some artists, for almost all artists, it's not. It's a business and 99% of the time it's based on supply & demand.

FalseDichotomy wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Btw, Mike Watt doesn't charge high prices simply because he's not that popular and wouldn't be able to.


Say that to Ian MacKaye. I dare you. :wink:


Ok.

Ian MacKaye could not charge high prices if his life depended on it either...

OBDULA X wrote:
Frank could have got alot more than he was getting even on the 88 tour.


In the markets that he hadn't played yet since the summer/fall North American leg was cancelled? Yes...especially since there would've been return engagements scheduled for a handful of larger markets. But definitely not for the vast of majority markets where he already played and wouldn't have played again on this tour because demand had already been met.

OBDULA X wrote:
I do understand supply and demand. More people are demanding lower ticket prices. Do The Stones or even Aerosmith NEED to charge So much for tickets ? Not even......Greed.


No, unfortunately, you don't understand it. The primary ingredient of supply and demand is net profit. And 99% of the time, there are no exceptions. Remember, promoters, booking agents, the band, crew, venue, venue employees, caterers, stockholders, etc., all take a slice of the pie. The Stones and Aerosmith (like almost all artists) charge what they do, because they know an x amount of people will pay an x amount of $$$ based on where their demand is at a given point in time. If they weren't that popular, they wouldn't get away with charging the prices they're charging and consequently would have to charge lower prices.

OBDULA X wrote:
Beacon Theatre
New York, NY
Dec. 17, 2010
$172,590
2,709 /
2,794
1 /
0
$95, $70, $45, $35
$63.71
Live Nation

In 3 years top price goes up $60....Holy shit !


Dude, ZPZ played 3 other shows in the NYC/NJ area earlier that year. Whereas, this year, so far there's only ONE show in the NYC/NJ area. That makes a difference and ultimately means prices HAVE to be higher...

downer mydnyte wrote:
DB doesn't seem to know the FACT that Watt could have easily (in the 80s and 90's) played the muzik biz game, censored himself, watered down his music, kissed muzik executive ass and been a rockstar if he had chosen that artistically bankrupt and shallow path.

Every professional cover band is in it for the money.That's fine but don't try to pretend it's anything more than a product. Or maybe it's the only way these geeks can get laid.


You don't seem to understand the FACT that I'm talking about his concert demand and that he couldn't charge high prices if his life depended on it. Musical integrity is a different issue altogether here...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:01 am 
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Well, what do you know, looks like for some people, such thing as price gouging doesn't exist. And everybody is only trying to take advantage of the economic system at hand, nobody gives a flying fuck about ethics and those who do are simply hiding behind their "lack of success". I'd like to have some of what these people are smoking!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:24 am 
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OBDULA X wrote:
Beacon Theatre
New York, NY
Dec. 17, 2010
$172,590
2,709 /
2,794
1 /
0
$95, $70, $45, $35
$63.71
Live Nation

In 3 years top price goes up $60....Holy shit !


Dude, ZPZ played 3 other shows in the NYC/NJ area earlier that year. Whereas, this year, so far there's only ONE show in the NYC/NJ area. That makes a difference and ultimately means prices HAVE to be higher...


They DON'T HAVE to be higher. The band got smaller, (The workforce ) The ticket prices go up. Sounds like big corporate america. How much you want to bet that there will be many other shows within an hour or so of NYC announced at a later date. Just waiting for The Beacon to fill.
If The Stones wanted to, they could play for 50 bucks a show top price and still make plenty money. They would have more multiple dates in cities. More people could afford to go to the concert ....and maybe even two. Most of the BIG artists price themselves out of the demand equation. Would I like to see The Stones....Sure....Will I pay $150 or more? Not a chance. Would I pay The Beacon Prices for a cover band. Forget it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Well, what do you know, looks like for some people, such thing as price gouging doesn't exist. And everybody is only trying to take advantage of the economic system at hand, nobody gives a flying fuck about ethics and those who do are simply hiding behind their "lack of success". I'd like to have some of what these people are smoking!


OBDULA X wrote:
They DON'T HAVE to be higher. The band got smaller, (The workforce ) The ticket prices go up. Sounds like big corporate america. How much you want to bet that there will be many other shows within an hour or so of NYC announced at a later date. Just waiting for The Beacon to fill.
If The Stones wanted to, they could play for 50 bucks a show top price and still make plenty money. They would have more multiple dates in cities. More people could afford to go to the concert ....and maybe even two. Most of the BIG artists price themselves out of the demand equation. Would I like to see The Stones....Sure....Will I pay $150 or more? Not a chance. Would I pay The Beacon Prices for a cover band. Forget it.


I'm not saying price gouging doesn't exist. But in this case, you have to understand the details at hand here. Remember, promoters, booking agents, the band, crew, venue, venue employees, caterers, stockholders, etc., all take a slice of the pie. It's very expensive to mount a tour.

Once again, in this case, ZPZ's ticket prices HAVE to be higher, since they're only playing ONE show in the NYC/NJ area this year thus far. And while it's possible, I greatly doubt there will be more shows in the NYC/NJ area this year, since it would kill the rest of the sales of the Halloween show. But as long as ZPZ continue, there should be more shows next year, yes...

If the Stones toured today and only charged $50, unless they could play the amount of shows worldwide (we're talking at least 300 shows) to meet demand at that price and not drop dead of exhaustion considering their age, everyone involved would LOSE money.

Btw, in early April, the Stones will announce an 18-date arena tour (15,000-20,000 capacity venues) throughout North America in May/June. Excluding VIP packages, prices should range from $100-$750.

Almost all artists charge what the market will bear. That's how it works...for better or worse...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:53 pm 
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obdula x wrote:
...The Wall. One Of the best concerts ever...next to the original...


hello,
is there any download in there ¿
just nod if you can hear me
is there any download home ¿

come on now,
i hear you're feeling downloaded
i can download your pain
and get you your feet again

relax, i'll download some information first
just the basic downloads
can you download where it hurts ¿

there is no pain, you are downloading
a distant ship downloads on the horizon
you are only downloading through in waves
your lips upload but i can't download what you're saying

when i was a child i had a download
my hands downloaded just like two balloons
now i've downloaded that feeling once again
i can't download, you would not understand
this is not how i download

i have become
downloadably numb

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:48 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
obdula x wrote:
...The Wall. One Of the best concerts ever...next to the original...


hello,
is there any download in there ¿
just nod if you can hear me
is there any download home ¿

come on now,
i hear you're feeling downloaded
i can download your pain
and get you your feet again

relax, i'll download some information first
just the basic downloads
can you download where it hurts ¿

there is no pain, you are downloading
a distant ship downloads on the horizon
you are only downloading through in waves
your lips upload but i can't download what you're saying

when i was a child i had a download
my hands downloaded just like two balloons
now i've downloaded that feeling once again
i can't download, you would not understand
this is not how i download

i have become
downloadably numb


You are truly retarded !

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Bob is a douche !


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Almost all artists charge what the market will bear. That's how it works.


Yes, but you've missed my one and only point in all of this. Let me be crystal clear....
Musicians that you have (perhaps) never heard of have had opportunities to join up with a corporate label, write hit songs, play the game and put themselves into a position where today they could charge, say, 100 bucks a ticket. Musicians who are totally capable of writing hits and posing in videos etc. They chose not to go that route. It's nothing to do with supply and demand. It's a choice from the beginning to do things your own way with no record company interference and no record company greed. Some bands promote and book their own shows. It's a choice. A choice to communicate your honest work to real life working class people by keeping prices affordable.

To join forces with this monster known as the corporate music biz and act like it's out of your hands is to lie. To voluntarily join the machine and then act like it's not your fault that the price of your tickets are absurd is dishonest. Consider what you actually deliver. 2 hours of oldies? Fuck, man. Supply and demand has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. These bands are making a big profit. Many are doing this just to get rich, not because they have anything original to offer. Who needs 'em?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:05 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
obdula x wrote:
...The Wall. One Of the best concerts ever...next to the original...


hello,
is there any download in there ¿
just nod if you can hear me
is there any download home ¿

come on now,
i hear you're feeling downloaded
i can download your pain
and get you your feet again

relax, i'll download some information first
just the basic downloads
can you download where it hurts ¿

there is no pain, you are downloading
a distant ship downloads on the horizon
you are only downloading through in waves
your lips upload but i can't download what you're saying

when i was a child i had a download
my hands downloaded just like two balloons
now i've downloaded that feeling once again
i can't download, you would not understand
this is not how i download

i have become
downloadably numb


ROTF! :mrgreen:

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Almost all artists charge what the market will bear. That's how it works.


Yes, but you've missed my one and only point in all of this.

Let me be crystal clear....
Musicians that you have (perhaps) never heard of have had opportunities to join up with a corporate label, write hit songs, play the game and put themselves into a position where today they could charge, say, 100 bucks a ticket. Musicians who are totally capable of writing hits and posing in videos etc. They chose not to go that route. It's nothing to do with supply and demand. It's a choice from the beginning to do things your own way with no record company interference and no record company greed. Some bands promote and book their own shows. It's a choice. A choice to communicate your honest work to real life working class people by keeping prices affordable.


I'm perfectly aware what you're talking about doesn't really have to do with supply & demand. We're now talking about two different things here. Anyway...

Apart from a handful, I don't think there are musicians out there today who, "...had opportunities to join up with a corporate label, write hit songs, play the game and put themselves into a position where today they could charge, say, 100 bucks a ticket...", that didn't take the opportunity to do so.

However, there are shitloads of musicians that choose to go their own way without ANY compromise, yes. But almost all them who do, wind up broke or are near broke for the most of their lives.

downer mydnyte wrote:
To join forces with this monster known as the corporate music biz and act like it's out of your hands is to lie. To voluntarily join the machine and then act like it's not your fault that the price of your tickets are absurd is dishonest. Consider what you actually deliver. 2 hours of oldies? Fuck, man. Supply and demand has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. These bands are making a big profit. Many are doing this just to get rich, not because they have anything original to offer. Who needs 'em?


That's not necessarily true. Especially because many of our favourite artists who have solid musical integrity are on or have been on major labels.

And if an artist strictly wants to make music for profit, that's their business. After all, since it's extremely difficult, especially now, if you can actually survive making a living in the music industry, you know you're doing something right. And while I generally don't find artists who make music strictly for financial reasons appealing either, as long as I like the product and the quality is high, I won't necessarily cast them aside as inferior just because they want to make a living or get rich...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:42 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
… However, there are shitloads of musicians that choose to go their own way without ANY compromise, yes. But almost all them who do, wind up broke or are near broke for the most of their lives. …
Which is in perfect accordance to the rules of capitalism/free market. So you must like that very much. Only the ones who make compromises to the mass market will survive.

Th.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:36 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
… However, there are shitloads of musicians that choose to go their own way without ANY compromise, yes. But almost all them who do, wind up broke or are near broke for the most of their lives. …
Which is in perfect accordance to the rules of capitalism/free market. So you must like that very much. Only the ones who make compromises to the mass market will survive.

Th.


Ian MacKaye's net worth is estimated at $25 million. You could say that he's the exception to the rule, but I think that he's created a template for how to be a successful professional musician without being engulfed by the machine.

Part of the issue is that a musician has to decide on what scale of success he/she desires. Ian MacKaye has chosen to be small-scale and is very successful. Dweezil seems to be following in Frank's footsteps and is going for medium-scale. And for comparison, let's say that Rush is large-scale and the Rolling Stones are mega-scale. Increase in scale means increase in expenses, obviously, especially in regards to road crew.

How much longer can DZPZ remain a medium-scale touring unit? Depends on supply and demand, I guess. I saw ZPZ once with Ray White, and that was enough for me. I'd rather spend my concert dollars on bands playing new, original material.

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