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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:48 am 
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The Man from Utopia is one album that I don't recommend. Not only is much of the music a bit heavy on just the kind of singing numbers typical of Zappa's post-Lather period, but the remixes are typical perfectionist BS as well and thus the original mix is gone forever, unless you can fetch up an old LP copy somewhere: two tracks that originally featured Vinnie's drums are Wackerman-ized and "Moggio"'s remix is, how shall I put it, somewhat antiseptic. If you can stream it for free, check out "Moggio" at any place and then I direct you to the YouTube of "Chalk Pie" and "Moggio" starts at 49:30, you'll hear the difference and it's drastic! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNeIeNWjK4Q

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:30 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Is Greasy Love Songs the best way to hear CWRATJ on CD?

Yes, absolutely!
The remix sucks big time.

You're in luck with all the 2012-remasters, now you have to buy the albums only once.
I can also recommend the instrumental Sleep Dirt.
No vocals and the songs that don't have re-recorded anything sound better too.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:01 am 
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I haven't heard too much from Man from Utopia, for the most part I didn't enjoy it too much with the half-singing/half-talking stuff. But We Are Not Alone is fucking awesome.

So what exactly is so wrong with the vocals on Sleep Dirt? Haven't heard it yet but I haven't heard anything positive about that version.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:26 am 
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Some of us are just sickeningly nostalgic about that album apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:56 am 
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I'll have to give it a listen I suppose to make my own mind up.

I'm worried I might like it and be shunned on this board.. :smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:54 am 
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I can sort of understand why FZ added Thana Harris on vocals after-the-fact. But Chad Wackerman's drum overdubs on three of the songs ("Flambay", "Spider" and "Regyptian"), that's a bit harder to account for.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:25 am 
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The first Zappa CD I owned (after borrowing a few of his other records) was the "butchered" WOIIFTM/LG CD from the 80's. It did no harm. That said, yes, if you want the original get the 1995 or 2012 release.

I'm less fond of the bombastic Broadway singing FZ had Thana Harris overdub on the Sleep Dirt tracks but reportedly there would have been similar vocals on the original release, if he could have found a singer in the 70's to do it. A diplomatic approach would have been to reissue the original album and add the vocal versions as bonus tracks, but that wasn't his style.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:16 am 
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After looking into another thread I feel I should dive into some Flo & Eddie stuff. Any recommendations where to start?

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:57 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
I'll have to give it a listen I suppose to make my own mind up. I'm worried I might like it and be shunned on this board.. :smoke:
A lot of people on this board like the vocal versions, including me. We just don't shout about it. The fact is, that you can have both anyway, so you're not forced one way or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:31 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
After looking into another thread I feel I should dive into some Flo & Eddie stuff. Any recommendations where to start?


Considering that there isn't a whole lot of it....I'd start with "Chunga's Revenge" or "Live at the Filmore." I started with Filmore, it captures the comedy aspect of the live show, plus you get to hear Frank's obsession with the mud shark. The live version of "Peaches En Regalia" is pretty slamming.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I am collecting FZ's discography in chronological order in a cd case. I'm all the way up to Broadway The Hard Way. The version of Sleep Dirt I have is the vocal-ized version, and I have no problem with it. I'm worried about getting the instrumental version and not knowing where to put it! :?


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:10 pm 
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To easy... :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:49 am 
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Hello Nuclear Prostate and welcome

If you are serious about collecting FZ's music I recommend you start with this brief list, some of which I see you already have. This tells me you are a musically decearning, some would say stern but would be totally misusing the word, individual.

Please note I've held off with my starter set for a day or two while I analyised the albums you own so far. Here is a "starter set" just for you.

See how you go with these, here we go in no particular order:

Freak Out!, Absolutely Free, which you have, Lumpy Gravy and We're Only in It for the Money, then give Cruising with Ruben & the Jets, Uncle Meat, Mothermania a listen. You have Hot Rats and Burnt Weeny Sandwich so you are keen. Order up Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Chunga's Revenge, Fillmore East – June 1971 and the music of the movie, thats right movie! 200 Motels. Once you have returned from therapy, theres the must have Just Another Band from L.A., Waka/Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo. You already have Over-Nite Sensation, Apostrophe (') and Live at the Roxy & Elsewhere but you may need to take a little break before you take on and One Size Fits All. After you return from the mandatory pigrimage to Montana by way of Sun Village and have got yourself a new apartment, the next semister will need to include Bongo Fury, after which we may need to discuss some Captian Beefheart albums, but back to Frank ummm Zoot Allures, Zappa in New York, Studio Tan and Sleep Dirt. You have already switched on the mirror ball for Sheik Yerbouti, so you may need to get a presciption for some antidepressants and push play on Joe's Garage Acts I, II & III. Then lets see Tinsel Town Rebellion, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar Some More, and of course Return of the Son of Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar. You Are What You Is, Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch, The Man from Utopia, and the music to another of Franks movies, yes moviessss Baby Snakes, London Symphony Orchestra, Vol. I and a II and a, oh then a little Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger and if you like that theres Orchestral Favourites and plucked from obscurity but in the same vain Francesco Zappa. Now get a second job, or remorgage the apartment and then buy Them or Us, Thing-Fish, and if you can afford it The Old Masters, Box I, Box II and why not Box III. Now, and Gail Zappa will love you for this, you need to purchase the following in one large transaction Frank Zappa Meets the Mothers of Prevention and just for a laugh Does Humor Belong in Music? Jazz from Hell, Guitar, You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore, Vol's. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and since you've got Vol. 5 you better get Vol. 6. Now that bunch of albums needs to be played on heavy rotate for around six weeks, no excuses. Ahhh where were we oh yes, you will need to cash in your retirement fund, because once you've heard the 88 band, you just have to get Broadway the Hard Way, The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life and Make a Jazz Noise Here. Now after you have abosorbed those albums and read some related books, you will have to resist the strong urge to take out a hit on Ed Mann. I would council you to several doses of Playground Psychotics then move on, I say again move on and try the under rated Ahead of Their Time. Then this next one will come as no surprise as you already have it and its also ahead of it's time, even though it came out late The Yellow Shark then the one you've read about in Rollingstone, and yes it is true Civilization Phaze III. I enjoyed The Lost Episodes, Läther and one of my favourites the poignant Frank Zappa Plays the Music of Frank Zappa: A Memorial Tribute, sob sob sob, snap out of it...then just for the hell of it get Have I Offended Someone? and as an artifact the Mystery Disc. Now depending on your financial situation and the state of your health both physical and mental switch off the lights and give Everything Is Healing Nicely a spin, then an album that is close to my home FZ:OZ. Now you must turn this one up loud enough to initiate a noise control call out, if they don't threaten to seize your sound system, then you did not play Halloween loud enough! I must now mention that theres four more Joe's, Joe's Corsage, Domage, XMASage and Menage. Having come this far you can't stop now. Trust me on this, if you haven't got one already, rush out and get your self a decent dvd player with surround sound, you may need to speak to uncle Luigi and pay twice the vig but get QuAUDIOPHILIAc. Now the next bunch are a bit of a mixed bag, but by now you love it, it's a way of life so inhale Imaginary Diseases, The MOFO Project/Object (2-CD set) and for the complitionist, yes thats you, The MOFO Project/Object (4-CD set). You will need to change gears a little for Trance-Fusion and Buffalo then theres the very special The Dub Room Special! Wazoo, One Shot Deal, Lumpy Money, Philly '76, now this next one will suprise you, Greasy Love Songs. As you already know about FZ's dealings with congress and this is another one for the completionist Congress Shall Make No Law... This next ones a blast from the past, Hammersmith Odeon and the one after is a blast into the future Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison. Then a history lesson with Carnegie Hall, Road Tapes, Venue #1. Now if at this stage your a little confused, just to recap theres Understanding America, and then just to round out your starter set theres Finer Moments.

Now once you have made your way through these albums, and you have paid uncle luigi in full and retrived the family jewels from the pawn shop there are a quite number of bootlegs you may enjoy.

PS Dive right on in and enjoy, thats what it is there for. :mrgreen:


Last edited by Gray_Ghost on Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:15 am 
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What about Cucamonga? Or maybe he should buy the 5CD highlights from Paul Buff's archive instead - or as a budding completist rather plunge straight to the 35 DL album collection...

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:54 am 
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See what ya did there G_G. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:27 am 
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I'm quite transparent AV, and yes DC, Cucamonga, I thought I'd bring that to the man with the glowing prostates attention during the upcoming bootleg discussions, after his release from prison, for running a ponzi scheme to finance stage one of the "known" bootleg purchases.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:43 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
So I have been a casual Zappa fan for a few years. Listening to his more crude and poppy/hard rock music on youtube and all that good stuff. About a 4 months ago I found myself suddenly obsessed and reading and researching the man himself and what he was like and what he did against congress. Seeking out documentaries and all that. It spurred me on to really dive into his discography.

As his discography is daunting I needed a place to start so the first album I got was Apostrophe(') and I enjoyed it lots, mostly listening to it at work (I spent my life there, only chance I get to listen to work).

Now I own:

Absolutely Free
Hot Rats
Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Over-Nite Sensation
Apostrophe(')
Roxy & Elsewhere
Sheik Yerbouti
The Yellow Shark

I am going to buy Joe's Garage (I,II,III) tonight. But I ask the question, what next for me? I'm thinking Zoot Allures, YAWYI & WOIIFTM.
I'm still unsure if I should dive into his 80's material yet because I know it is a very mixed bag.

:mrgreen:

I have a preference for the live albums that is what hooked me try the "You Can't Do that On Stage Anymore" series (there's six 2-CD volumes), but whatever you choose will be a gem without a doubt; in fact this holds true for any of the upward of 100 official releases - you'll want them all eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:17 am 
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I do plan on getting them all. It will take a long time but it will happen.

I think my next purchases will be ZA, BF, WOIIFTM, UM, CWRATJ, WRMF & YCDTOSA 2&6.

Then I'll really start to dig deep. Am I the only person who just can't get into FREAK OUT!? I have listened to it a few times and there are moments of pure magic and I like the flow, especially the later part of the disc but it doesn't do much for me. I'll give it another listen tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:48 am 
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Freak Out is one of my least favorite Zappa albums.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:46 am 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
Freak Out!, Absolutely Free, which you have, Lumpy Gravy and We're Only in It for the Money, then give Cruising with Ruben & the Jets, Uncle Meat, Mothermania a listen. You have Hot Rats and Burnt Weeny Sandwich so you are keen. Order up Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Chunga's Revenge, Fillmore East – June 1971 and the music of the movie, thats right movie! 200 Motels. Once you have returned from therapy, theres the must have Just Another Band from L.A., Waka/Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo. You already have Over-Nite Sensation, Apostrophe (') and Live at the Roxy & Elsewhere but you may need to take a little break before you take on and One Size Fits All. After you return from the mandatory pigrimage to Montana by way of Sun Village and have got yourself a new apartment, the next semister will need to include Bongo Fury, after which we may need to discuss some Captian Beefheart albums, but back to Frank ummm Zoot Allures, Zappa in New York, Studio Tan and Sleep Dirt. You have already switched on the mirror ball for Sheik Yerbouti, so you may need to get a presciption for some antidepressants and push play on Joe's Garage Acts I, II & III. Then lets see Tinsel Town Rebellion, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar, Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar Some More, and of course Return of the Son of Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar. You Are What You Is, Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch, The Man from Utopia, and the music to another of Franks movies, yes moviessss Baby Snakes, London Symphony Orchestra, Vol. I and a II and a, oh then a little Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger and if you like that theres Orchestral Favourites and plucked from obscurity but in the same vain Francesco Zappa. Now get a second job, or remorgage the apartment and then buy Them or Us, Thing-Fish, and if you can afford it The Old Masters, Box I, Box II and why not Box III. Now, and Gail Zappa will love you for this, you need to purchase the following in one large transaction Frank Zappa Meets the Mothers of Prevention and just for a laugh Does Humor Belong in Music? Jazz from Hell, Guitar, You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore, Vol's. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and since you've got Vol. 5 you better get Vol. 6. Now that bunch of albums needs to be played on heavy rotate for around six weeks, no excuses. Ahhh where were we oh yes, you will need to cash in your retirement fund, because once you've heard the 88 band, you just have to get Broadway the Hard Way, The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life and Make a Jazz Noise Here. Now after you have abosorbed those albums and read some related books, you will have to resist the strong urge to take out a hit on Ed Mann. I would council you to several doses of Playground Psychotics then move on, I say again move on and try the under rated Ahead of Their Time. Then this next one will come as no surprise as you already have it and its also ahead of it's time, even though it came out late The Yellow Shark then the one you've read about in Rollingstone, and yes it is true Civilization Phaze III. I enjoyed The Lost Episodes, Läther and one of my favourites the poignant Frank Zappa Plays the Music of Frank Zappa: A Memorial Tribute, sob sob sob, snap out of it...then just for the hell of it get Have I Offended Someone? and as an artifact the Mystery Disc. Now depending on your financial situation and the state of your health both physical and mental switch off the lights and give Everything Is Healing Nicely a spin, then an album that is close to my home FZ:OZ. Now you must turn this one up loud enough to initiate a noise control call out, if they don't threaten to seize your sound system, then you did not play Halloween loud enough! I must now mention that theres four more Joe's, Joe's Corsage, Domage, XMASage and Menage. Having come this far you can't stop now. Trust me on this, if you haven't got one already, rush out and get your self a decent dvd player with surround sound, you may need to speak to uncle Luigi and pay twice the vig but get QuAUDIOPHILIAc. Now the next bunch are a bit of a mixed bag, but by now you love it, it's a way of life so inhale Imaginary Diseases, The MOFO Project/Object (2-CD set) and for the complitionist, yes thats you, The MOFO Project/Object (4-CD set). You will need to change gears a little for Trance-Fusion and Buffalo then theres the very special The Dub Room Special! Wazoo, One Shot Deal, Lumpy Money, Philly '76, now this next one will suprise you, Greasy Love Songs. As you already know about FZ's dealings with congress and this is another one for the completionist Congress Shall Make No Law... This next ones a blast from the past, Hammersmith Odeon and the one after is a blast into the future Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison. Then a history lesson with Carnegie Hall, Road Tapes, Venue #1. Now if at this stage your a little confused, just to recap theres Understanding America, and then just to round out your starter set theres Finer Moments.


This was extremely helpful. I have gone through this and have written down all the albums and have created an Amazon basket, I'll buy what I can when I can. Especially looking forward to Buffalo now, heard a few bits from it and it is awesome.

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Last edited by NuclearProstate on Tue May 21, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:39 am 
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Excellent pleased I could help :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Freak Out! had to grow on me. My earliest albums were Live in New York, Filmore East, and Make a Jazz Noise Here. Freak Out! was next, it didn't grow on me until I read Frank's book and started to hear how his music started to evolve. Now I freaking love it and can't get enough. I suggest looking for some other tracks by artists from that era on YouTube and then play some tracks from FO! and then repeat this process. Try to put yourself there when it happened in 66 for the first time. The local music shop owner was a huge Zappa fan (store was 'Cosmic Debris') and suggested that trick. It didn't hurt though :mrgreen:

To bad his business got shut down.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Yeah, that's some bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:28 am 
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Anybody know if you can get Uncle Meat without the 'penalty tracks'? I would like to listen to the entire album at work without having to skip tracks.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa starter set
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:43 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Anybody know if you can get Uncle Meat without the 'penalty tracks'? I would like to listen to the entire album at work without having to skip tracks.


Try scooping up a used vinyl. Which is what I did. I was also thinking if it was possible to buy the original tracks off iTunes, but I did a research and while it's doable, you'll end up spending virtually twice the money that way than buying the whole package, as each track is .99 and it adds up if you multiply by 28! So I dunno, maybe buy the whole Uncle Meat as it currently stands from iTunes and delete the penalty tracks?

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