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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:28 pm 
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This was the 1st FZ album I bought in 1985 with money from my first job after leaving school . This is what started the whole FZ experience for me (as I'd heard "Sheik" a few years earlier but was spending my money on the likes of U2 back then!).Still have the album and think the artwork is one of the best of all the FZ collection.As for the musical content what can you say - "Fine Girl","Easy Meat","Bamboozled"&"Brown Shoes" all absolute classics.Luv it!!!!!! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:03 pm 
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The drums on "Pick Me, I'm Clean" is my favorite music on the album, but what I remember most about TTR when I first bought it were the sleeves that contained the precious vinyl.  <br><br>In large letters the sleeve asked: "Are You Hardcore?" beside which a picture of FZ was smirking, smoking a cigarette, as if to say: "You're not THAT hardcore . . . you just bought this for the dirty words . . ."  <br><br>I kept reading: "What it is . . . What they are . . . What the?"  Of course, further reading invited us to order the three SU-N-PYG albums.  Ever since I'd listened to "Redunzl" for the first time, I'd loved FZ's guitar playing.  So now I was being invited to buy three ENTIRE albums featuring HIM on the guitar.  I was soooooo there so I ordered the records.  This is what I learned: So THAT'S what a rhythm section is supposed to do during a guitar solo.<br><br>Each record had the same picture that appeared on the TTR inner sleeve, but this time it was saying: "Ahhh yes . . . so you are THAT hardcore."<br><br><br>VCF

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:07 pm 
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I have always wondered exactly what the "Blue Light" is...is it the light a scuba diver sees when emerging from the deep? Is it a drug thing? What? What?

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:11 am 
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Yepp, Blue Light is a very stange but beautiful tune. It was played in 1982, too. Bur never heard a bootleg of it or so.<br>Do you filks have the 1998 remastered Cd of TTR? It is amust have! I used to play the 1990 Cd version, where they somehow fucked up the EQ-balances or what. Horrible! <br>Another highlight to me is Bob Harris playing these tiny trumpet lines in the title track and on Pick Me. GREAT!

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 6:35 pm 
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[quote author=Them link=board=albums;num=1036354009;start=45#55 date=12/10/02 at 00:07:07]I have always wondered exactly what the "Blue Light" is...is it the light a scuba diver sees when emerging from the deep? Is it a drug thing? What? What?[/quote]<br><br>I don't know what the blue light is, but I can deepen the mystery....<br>'Where the stumblers gonna go,<br>to watch the lights turn blue' - from 'Village of the Sun'.<br>Conceptual continuity? or nonsense? You decide...

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:00 pm 
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Posts: 185
Location: Upstate NY
A favorite FZ album that I admit forgetting about. I have the 1995 Ryko version and it's sadly plagued by poor EQ, distortion and very subtle sound dropouts. It's a better CD to hear on the speakers...the headphones reveal too many imperfections.<br><br>What a great album though! The cover art is wonderful CAL quality. PEACHES III is great fun, and this album has the first 'other version' of BROWN SHOES DON'T MAKE IT that I ever heard. BAMBOOZLED BY LOVE and EASY MEAT are favorites as well as the DANCE CONTEST > BLUE LIGHT sequence. (I got yo sequence hangin boy!)

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I searched the forum to find an answer to my question, found this thread but no discussion on my topic. I love this album, I do, but does anyone besides me think the soloing is a lot different on this as well as some of Joe's Garage? Was it the xenochrony thing? Was he just trying a different style? I admit, when I first heard TTR, I was sort of worried that maybe this style of lead guitar would continue that way for the duration of his discography. Thankfully, it didn't. I have definitely grown to love the album though.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Don't know about the soloing (it is all good to me), but it is a fucking great band. Listening to Buffalo right now, and a FZ band with Vinnie and Artie is simply tremendjous...

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Last edited by Mr_Green_Genes on Wed May 15, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:49 pm 
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I think the guitar solo on Pick Me is one of Frank's best, and I agree what someone said way back then about the drums: they are indeed great. I'm not sure what you are thinking of..... Perhaps the solo inserted into Easy Meat, or that the Pick Me solo was excised from another concert and plugged into this album's version?

It's one of my favorites too. Love of My Life is great, the demented version of Peaches, Tell Me You Love Me, Now You See It....... All cool pieces. A lot of folks don't like this one much, but I think it's the fuckin' bee's knees.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:51 pm 
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So you dig The Man From Utopia, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:27 am 
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No xenochrony on Tinseltown Rebellion.


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Hm.. Good to know!

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:12 am 
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Nor are the TTRB or Buffalo albums with exactly the same band, but, hey, Zappa, Vinnie & Artie, what is there to understand? It is just plain ass kicking!

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:05 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Nor are the TTRB or Buffalo albums with exactly the same band, but, hey, Zappa, Vinnie & Artie, what is there to understand? It is just plain ass kicking!


About half of Tinseltown Rebellion is with the same band as Buffalo.


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:06 pm 
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That's a good band.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:10 pm 
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I can remember around the time of the release of TTR thinking that Zappa's soloing style had changed for the worse. But I later changed my view about it. My introduction to his soloing repertoire was Fillmore East and Band from LA, then Overnite Sensation then Roxy. Then I got into some of his early Mothers stuff and could see where that Roxy stuff was coming from.

At the time, he talked about this change at length, saying he didn't want to play blues any more and was working hard at developing a new soloing style. I came to like many of his later solos, the one in Pick Me I'm Clean on TTR is a particularly good example. St Etienne on Jazz from Hell is one of his best ever and I think it demonstrates quite well his departure from the blues.

I still find though that the key element in Zappa solos that really kick ass is his particular style of blues. He gets a unique flavour of speed by incorporating a wide variety of scrapes across multiple notes and some very complex pull-off/hammer-on combinations. For example, I can play fast, ish, but I was never able to play that tricky fast flourish in the Dirty Love riff until I worked out how to do it with the scrapes he was using - and cunning ones they are.

I mean, for me, blues is ordinarily pretty boring. In my early youth I was initially impressed by guitarists like Tony Iommi, Jimmy Page and Dave Gilmour, but Zappa is something else altogether. I think he floundered a little when he decided to make that change, but by the time Drowning Witch came along he was well on top of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:15 am 
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The solos on TTR are about the only thing I like - apart from the cover, which is Schenkel at his best...

There are several reasons why I think it's a fairly crap album --

- Zappa's particular take on misogynism ("women should be women, not ladies") loses its bite when almost every song insists on it and is hard to take as anything else than a pretty dated, Fifties attitude

- the whole point of the shocking transition from stupid lyrics to a sublime solo is lost in Easy Meat with the little dialogue that breaks it up into two distinctly separate entities

- with the possible exception of Peaches En Regalia, all the old songs are weaker than in their original versions, and this is inexcusable on the FIRST Zappa record that consists substantially of rehashed material

- the new songs (TTR, The Blue Light) are OK, but generally more cerebral, constructed artifacts than really strong songs

- the audience participation bits and "raps" are really lame - compare the preambles of Roxy & Elsewhere to the Panty Rap f'rinstance

- the album is a poor simulation of a Zappa concert - halfway through side two Frank is still introducing the band, when a good live album should be in full flight already

All in all it's a frustrating listening experience (with some highlights) and IMHO Zappa's most redundant release. I much prefer Buffalo, which is a truer and more exciting representation of a 1980 concert, with strong material from all three 1981 albums/styles - TTR, SUAPYG and YAWYI. TTR on its own suffers because it was constructed according to (imagined) commercial potential. And it failed badly - the artistically uncompromising SUAPYG was also a better seller.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:08 am 
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- the whole point of the shocking transition from stupid lyrics to a sublime solo is lost in Easy Meat with the little dialogue that breaks it up into two distinctly separate entities

The Crush All Boxes version has a better, clearer mix, and does not feature that break. And, during FZ solo, Bob Harris adds some nice trumpet flourishes. The best version of "Easy Meat" to these ears.


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:04 am 
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For the TTR version of "Easy Meat" FZ decided to use the solo and ending from Santa Monica where they played the song at a faster tempo than the Philadelphia version several months earlier. It probably wasn't possible to make a smooth edit between the two, hence the dialogue bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:40 am 
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I quite like that "free-jazz"/dialogue disruption: remember, the "free-jazz" bit is taken from the Orchestral Favorites concerts and strangely enough, that's the only bit that consequently has a bit of brass/woodwind (other than Harris' occasional trumpet) on the album (let alone, Terry Bozzio!). You hear so much of Mars' Electrocomp/Emu/CS80 parts (and overdubs) that when some saxes start wailing away for about 5 seconds, then it's in a way a breath of fresh, if tempered, air. :)

Speaking of brass/woodwind, it appears that in 1980 FZ appeared to be ready to accept a bit of horn playing in his touring bands again. Bob Harris may have explained that his gig was a falsetto guy and he could not play the keys like Tommy Mars, but FZ also encouraged Harris to pick up his trumpet again. It was possibly used only on songs that can be counted on one hand, but better than nothing. I like what Harris adds on "Pick Me" and "TTR". And then he had Bobby Martin on sax, an even more accomplished wind player. And then suddenly pieces like "The Black Page 2" had a saxophone part in them. For a while in 1984 Napoleon made a return. Which is not as remarkable for the vocal aspect, but for the fact that a number of tunes had two saxophone parts. Some of which Napoleon played on alto and baritone saxes, as opposed to his customary tenor. Bruce Fowler also sat in for the July 22nd gig. So anyone wondering whether 1984 band is worth bothering at all, please do download the concert recording from that date for "Chunga's Revenge" alone! I believe Aynsley is on drums there too, taking over from Wackerman for that number.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:10 am 
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TTR is worth the money spent just for the cool version of Peaches.

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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:57 pm 
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TTR is a hodgepodge (two songs left over from Crush All Boxes, one from Shut Up N Play Yer Guitar, a few from Warts & All) but about half of it ranks with the best rock material FZ put out in the 80's.


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 Post subject: Re: Tinseltown Rebellion
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:11 pm 
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I freakin' love The Blue Light. I don't think it's appeared on any other album. I just went to verify that on IINK and that site was all slow for some reason, but I think that's right. The meltdown section holds together so well, I don't know how much of that was actually planned beforehand and how much was improvised that one night.

edit - now I do remember hearing a show from '80-ish that had that song, and it was more or less the same, but memory is hazy here.

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