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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Obviously this guy was a law-abiding gun owner who was stable enough to pass a background check... :roll:

Man charged with shooting wife at Texas base

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — A man suspected of shooting his wife at a Texas Army base was charged Tuesday with domestic violence.

A federal criminal complaint filed by prosecutors alleges that Alvin Roundtree, 51, carried a .45-caliber pistol onto Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio on Monday and got into an argument with his common-law wife. He then allegedly shot her multiple times. His wife, who is on active duty, was in stable condition Tuesday at the San Antonio Military Medical Center, a statement released by the U.S. attorney's office said...

...The incident took place at the Army Medical Department Center and School, where the victim is an instructor. Authorities said the shooter went into the victim's office and began talking to her. The pair then continued a discussion on a veranda outside the building, where the shooter eventually fired multiple shots, Col. Jim Chevallier, vice commander of 502 Air Base Wing, said...

...Chevallier said the shooter got in his car and drove from the medical center. He later parked and tried to run while still within the base, but thought better of it. San Antonio police arrested Roundtree and turned him over to military police...

http://news.yahoo.com/man-charged-shoot ... 44761.html


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:03 pm 
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http://www.policymic.com/articles/20891 ... save-lives

Oregon Gun Owner Stops Clackamas Shooting Spree, Proving Guns Save Lives

Since no crisis can be allowed to go to waste, never expect the media to do anything other than demand more gun control legislation any time a whacko (or a patsy) kills people with a gun. Case in point: on Tuesday night, a complete idiot walked into a Portland, Oregon mall and began firing. Obviously the shooter, Jacob Roberts, was an imbecile to start with, since he managed to kill only two people before turning a gun on himself, but that's not the whole story.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Gun Saves Lives of California Phar macy Owner and Mother

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/cr ... and-mother


If the gun-grabbers — now feeling their oats after mass shootings in Colorado, Wisconsin, and Connecticut — had their way, Tuesday would indeed have been the last day for both the 40-year-old Lee and his 68-year-old mother, Sophie. The two were working in Lee’s Almond Avenue *SPAM* when, around 6:30 p.m., two men in ski masks burst into the *SPAM* by the back door, which Lee had left unlocked for a customer, and began shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:06 pm 
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30 days of guns saving lives: A collection of true stories of self-defense

http://www.examiner.com/article/30-days ... lf-defense


In February and March of 2013, the Little Rock Gun Rights Examiner started a series that was unofficially called 30 Days of Guns Saving Lives. The series was in response to a weeklong series aired by NBC which “investigated” “gun violence” in America.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Just figured I'd clog up the forum with the ' other ' side of the coin.

That ok with you SB ?

Thought it would be :lol: :lol: :lol:

:wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Doesn't change the facts....


10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.

By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.


Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.

Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.

Sources - Small Arms Survey, Congressional Research Service


Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements.

Sources - Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.

Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.
• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.
• In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides.


Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.

Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5


Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.


Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.

Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.


Myth #7: Guns make women safer.

Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.


Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.

Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

Per capita spending on video games - USA = $44 / Japan = $55

Civilian firearms per 100 people - USA = 88 / Japan = 0.6

Gun homicides in 2008 - USA = 11,030 / Japan = 11


Sources - PricewaterhouseCoopers, Small Arms Survey, UN Office on Drugs and Crime


Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.

Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population.
About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun.
• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each.


Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.
Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement that the Senate approve nominees.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Four shot, including three teen girls, while sitting in SUV in Nashville

Four people, including three 14-year-old girls, were wounded when a barefoot man walked up to their SUV and shot them Friday in Nashville, Tenn., police said. Three of the victims were in critical condition...

...The case is being investigated as a possible case of domestic violence, police said. They said Moore should be considered armed and extremely dangerous...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06 ... ville?lite


There should be mandatory life sentences for straw purchasers who peddle guns to criminals. Something has to be done, and those in the industry need to be held accountable.


Last edited by SPACEBROTHER on Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:49 am 
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I always thought Meredith Hunter was a rather convincing argument for the failure of guns to protect you in a sticky situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qTKsylrpsg

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:05 am 
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Well for all you anti gun for protection folks, you may want to channel your displeasure of guns towards the IRS as Obamas admin is having them train with hand guns for us citizen home visits. Now first; the gov thinks guns will protect the irs agents and second how you like your tax dollars going to this, as now they will be at our doors armed to collect for obama care.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:59 am 
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Join the IRS free handgun training woop woop woop

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:06 pm 
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In todays gun wacko news...

Gunmaker's Newtown comments spark outrage
The CEO of Freedom Group, the maker of Bushmaster rifles, finally speaks about the Connecticut massacre and only adds to the controversy.


Freedom Group chief executive George Kollitides has kept a low profile since the Newtown, Conn., elementary school massacre, in which 20 young children and six teachers were killed by a gunman using one of his company's Bushmaster rifles (pictured).

Six months after Adam Lanza opened fire on the school with one of Freedom's semiautomatics, Kollitides is commenting on the attack...

"It's very easy to blame an inanimate object. Any kind of instrument in the wrong hands can be put to evil use. This comes down to intent -- criminal behavior, accountability and responsibility," Kollitides told the Washington Times.

In his view, he added, "only two things could have potentially stopped (Lanza): his mother locking up her guns and an armed guard. Even then, he could have driven his stolen car into a playground full of kids."

http://money.msn.com/now/blog--newtown- ... rk-outrage


His statements fall under these pro-gun myth catagories:


Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements.

Sources - Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention



Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Another “Accidental” Shooting. Another Child Dead...

In May, a 10-year-old Virginia girl named Margaret “Maggie” Hollifield was accidentally shot and killed at her home by an unnamed boy. While details of the incident were initially scarce, an official report on the shooting is in, and it’s heartbreaking. As it turns out, Hollifield was shot by her 13-year-old brother, who had been fixing his shotgun in the family’s living room when it suddenly discharged. Though the boy had forgotten to remove a shell that was in the chamber, the report notes that he was normally very cautious with his gun—he had received it as a present from a relative...

In Virginia you can’t drive until you’re 16, plus three months. You can’t drink until you’re 21. But for some reason you can own a basic shotgun at any age...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/0 ... _have.html


Five dead in two weekend shooting sprees in Omaha

A 30 minute shooting spree in south Omaha Saturday afternoon ends in a shoot-out with police. Police Chief Todd Schmaderer says the suspect had killed two men and wounded two others before a shoot out with Omaha police.

At 2 pm Saturday, the first shooting happened in south Omaha at 31st and Hascall. 31 year old Aaron Anderson was found wounded and rushed to a hospital in critical condition. About 25 minutes later, 46 year old Angel Cabrera was found shot at 33rd and D Streets. He was also in critical condition.

The next two shootings were deadly. Just before 2:30, 25 year old Anthony Vazzano was shot a few blocks away at 34th and F Streets. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The final deadly shooting happened at 2:32 at 33rd and E Streets. That victim is identified as 25 year old Pascual Bautista-Raymundo.

Immediately after that shooting Omaha Police Officer Coral Walker arrived at the scene. The suspect then turned and fired shots at the cruiser hitting it several times. Officer Walker returned fire and shot and killed the suspect. His name has not been released but he is described as a Hispanic male.

Police continue to search for Anderson’s 1995 Ford Thunderbird. His vehicle was stolen from the location of the first shooting and police believe there could be a second suspect.

Also over the weekend two teenagers were shot in killed early Sunday morning in north Omaha. Police say 18 year old Brendon Ford and 17 year old DMarco Pope were attending a party at a residence when shots were fired. Police believe this shooting was gang related.

http://nebraskaradionetwork.com/2013/06 ... ng-sprees/


1 dead, 2 injured in Clear Lake shooting

CLEAR LAKE—

Attorney General Marty Jackley says a man shot and wounded two people before killing himself in the northeastern South Dakota city of Clear Lake.

Authorities were called to a home about 9 p.m. Sunday for a reported double shooting. Jackley says two people were flown to a hospital while the man alleged to have shot them, 40-year-old Brett Pommer, barricaded himself inside the residence.

Law officers tried but failed to make contact with him. SWAT team members eventually entered the home and found Pommer dead of what Jackley said was a self-inflicted gunshot wound...

http://www.aberdeennews.com/news/aan-1- ... 5742.story


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Talk your smack when the armed Irs comes to your place, or do you trust the training they will get.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:55 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:45 am 
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more gun wacko news...

Pennsauken doctor's office shooting leaves two dead

PENNSAUKEN — For some of Michelle Liggio’s patients, a trip to the Pennsauken doctor’s office Tuesday seemed every bit routine.

But rather than seeing their “bubbly” doctor, patients wept at the news the 47-year-old had been killed shortly after noon in the very place she treated them.

Dr. Liggio was gunned down by her 58-year-old husband, Christopher, in her Maple Professional Center office, authorities said. He then fatally shot himself.

It all began with a disturbance call at about 12:30 p.m., according to the Camden County Prosecutor’s Office. The murder-suicide appears to have followed a dispute between the Mount Laurel couple.


http://www.courierpostonline.com/articl ... r-s-office



Ex-convict accused in shooting due in court

...Police say Orvil Grimes, 62, walked into a liquor store on Boulder Highway on Sunday at 5:15 p.m. A female clerk approached Grimes to help him, saying, "Happy Father's Day."

It was then, according to the victim, that Grimes said "Sorry, I have to do this," before reaching into his pocket, pulling out a gun, loading it and pointing it directly at the clerk's chest...

Grimes then allegedly casually walked out of the store...

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/22626900 ... to-do-this


Gun-loving heckler Tasered after harassing shooting survivor

A gun enthusiast was tackled, Tasered and arrested by police at a Concord, New Hampshire gun control rally on Tuesday night after he repeatedly harassed a speaker who was calling for all gun buyers to undergo background checks.

The man that Daniel Musso, 52, was interrupting is John Cantin, a survivor of gun violence who was shot while attempting to save his daughter before her estranged husband murdered her in 2009. He became an anti-domestic violence activist who promotes gun safety measures, and on Tuesday Cantin hand-delivered a list to Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) bearing the names of more than 6,000 people who have been killed by gun violence since the mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut last December.

The rally was staged by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which is conducting a bus tour to drum up support for gun control measures supported by the vast majority of Americans, according to recent polls. Those measures include limiting magazine size for military-style assault weapons and forcing every gun buyer to undergo a criminal background check, along with expanding the background check database...

... As Cantin spoke, just moments after delivering the names of the dead to Sen. Ayotte, Musso began to get agitated. “Why are you shaking talking about this?” WMUR-TV, which had a reporter on the scene, quoted him as saying. “You’re not the truth!” The Concord Monitor added that he kept asking Cantin to elaborate on what kind of gun was used to kill his daughter...

The interruptions continued for several more minutes before Musso walked away, but police had already arrived on the scene and decided they’d seen enough. A struggle ensued, lasting about 90 seconds before officers deployed a Taser and took him to the ground. A gathering of about 60 counter-protesters, many of whom were openly carrying firearms according to The Union Leader, appeared disappointed, but Cantin was unmoved. “They just weakened their cause and strengthened ours,” he told the paper...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/19/g ... -survivor/


It's shameful that these pro-gun wacko's with their open carry permits think they are entitled to show up at gun control rallies with the sole purpose to intimidate and threaten the victims of gun violence and their families.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:19 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
more gun wacko news...




It's shameful that these pro-gun wacko's with their open carry permits think they are entitled to show up at gun control rallies with the sole purpose to intimidate and threaten the victims of gun violence and their families.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:33 pm 
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"I can teach you how to shoot so close to a raccoon that it'll lose all it's bodily fluids" ~ Sheldon Coopers Father.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:40 am 
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You do not need a permit to carry unconcealed, it is for concealed in most states

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:14 am 
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I thought I would re boot the original reason I gave when I strated the thread since many here have de-evolved into a for against conversation when the original intent was to ask:

New discussion we all know it would be a far safer in the US without guns, but the Gun Genie Escaped the Bottle long ago. Lets set aside the fact that the 2nd Amendment was not designed to give people guns, but to give them the ability to battle the Government if they ever needed, intent is everything when it comes to Rights. People I know that own multiple guns have pistols mostly for home defense, shot guns and long rifles for hunting, and at least (1) assault weapon for fighting the big fight they hope never comes.

Now we are going to pass a law and collect an estimated 350,000,000 weapons from 150,000,000 people of which as many as 70,000,000 are assault weapons. Logistically how are you going to do this, what resources will be used, how long would this take, what do you do with people who have perfect track records that refuse?

Many many logistical questions and don't forget that the assault weapons were purchased and maintained to stop the Government from taking away rights, like the 2nd Amendment...

What say you?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:54 am 
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In a day and age when the gov't has fighter jets, helecopters, cruise missles, drones, nuclear bombs, tanks, battle ships, bunker busting bombs ect....an uprising by the people against the gov't is a lost cause. Besides, the gun wacko's are more prone to us their weapons against other citizens whom they don't like or disagree with then they are the gov't. The people who are being intimidated and threatened by the gun nuts with their arms brandished at gun control rallies are citizens, not govt employees. They don't like the views of the gun control crowd, or the victims and their famliy members, so they are more likely to be attacked by gun wackos than the govt.

The gun industry and the NRA don't really care if criminals get guns. They are customers consuming their products. They also fight against every law and regulation that keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazy people.they also don't care if kids get their hands on guns. Like the cigarette industry of old, they are future consumers. It's pathetic and shameless of the gun industry's business practices.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:23 am 
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Sorry, Plook. Just like Spacebrother, I have no answer for your question either.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:02 am 
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For me SB diminishes the topic, especially since all he does is stereo type gun owners. SB has made his opinion very clear, so why beat a dead horse, is is utterly redundant. I am amazed at how uninformed so many are on the constitution the 2nd amendment was not put in the fight the government, for christ sake, there was very little law and the country was being explored, there were horse thieves and well a lot of law breaking. Claim jumping, thievery, and the need for guns was a necessity. These folks just came here to get away from governmental overreach. Jump to now, I posted a story of a gal that got raped way out in the country, where the sheriff's dept could physically respond , and a person should at least have the rite to protect them selves with a gun or knife or shovel. More people are killed yearly by drunk drivers, SB should focus all this hatred on that subject ,but that would mean prohibition. So far that I have seen no one has demanded that SB have a gun or that his opinion shouldn't be made but it has ad nauseum . Again most folks I know have so called assault weapons for fun, shooting targets is fun, and don't look now but shooting is an olympic sport.. There are much bigger issues to debate, SB is just trying to be political, imo. EX: I carry a pistol when hiking in the hills, protection from varmints, there is a bounty on coyotes here, also bird hunting a badger just about mauled my golden ...had to shoot it. I really hate posting on this subject but when I see such idiotic unfounded crap that some folks think then i have to respond. I should be more like JPD.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:39 am 
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Plook -
I'm glad you tried to restart this thread so it makes a bit of sense. Most "Gun Debate" is stupid as Hell as much of this thread proves. But, the question of removing people's guns and how it relates to the collection from citizens and retention of personal freedoms is always a good topic.
In the 1700s, one could reasonably expect that if they really wanted personal freedom, they could head into Western America and make a go of it on their own. This is no longer the same paradigm. Very few people in 3rd Wave Countries such as the US, in proportion, live off of the grid or anything similar to that. Freedom has a different meaning than it did back then and therefore Guns and their meaning in proportion to Freedom has changed. Flag-Wavers like to muddle this up and just yell Freedom as loud as possible to make people think that the only Freedom is complete Freedom, but this is stupid. I have little concern for armed US uprisings to revolutionize government unless the US gets taken over by another country. Anyone see that happening?
How do Guns relate to government? Let's see if we can list the ways...
1. Protection from Criminals - I have no problem with that for any firearm that anyone wants to prove themselves responsible enough to use.
2. Protection from Government - Paranoia. Some people see themselves as a prophet, saving the world... Who knows what the future brings. Either way, I don't need this rationalization as I have #1.
3. Fun - Has nothing to do with the Government unless one counts questions about deer population etc...
Anything else that Guns are good for?
Seems to me that #1 is the only category of interest (to me). Should certain high-power Guns be registered and traced? Imo, yes. Training, Certification, Traceability and how long it takes people to figure this out are the only parts of this debate that interest me any more.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:35 am 
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I agree with most of that, but target shooting is fun, and I am not sure how much predation control you refer to besides deer, but is a need for traps and guns ,as far as the government and fun you are vague, to some say ciggys are fun but gov. regulated, fast motorcycles are fun but regulated, the average assault rifle is NOT high power, as the HK 416, used to kill osama, most high power rifles are now regulated registered, and thus traceable, unless on the black market, like fast and furious! And training great bring it on, the NRA emphasises training as with 4-H shooting sports, and me. In 1962 I went through nra training as a youth to be legal to hunt. You know nobody thought Japan would bomb the shit out of Pearl, to day one big dirty bomb could cause chaos in a city causing looting and so forth. Most gun owners I know don't loose sleep over that possibility like SB would have you believe, and finally that is why he has NOT brought sensibility to the subject, just hype times 10 to the 8th. History 1700's; the east coast was still largely being discovered if you will but you are correct many going west needed guns as with the east, just to eat! My 5 great grand father was in western Pa. in 1740 and lost his dad and mom to indians on the monongahela river.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:49 am 
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OK, cool. Sounds like you agree with training - good.
Japan - Sounds like you are preparing to be invaded. Not a bad thing, but I believe the US to be at least reasonably safe. I choose not to fear attack, nor base civilian gun policy on said fear.
So, what about Traceability? Do you fear the government knowing who has access to extreme weaponry? Personally, I want to know if psychopaths have such weapons and look forward to people being held responsible for owning weapons over time, not just at point-of-purchase. If someone gets checked out of the Mental Ward, I want to know that someone did a check to find out if that guy is going home to a get a gun and take out some agression on percieved enemies.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:57 am 
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Plook wrote:
I thought I would re boot the original reason I gave when I strated the thread since many here have de-evolved into a for against conversation when the original intent was to ask:

New discussion we all know it would be a far safer in the US without guns, but the Gun Genie Escaped the Bottle long ago. Lets set aside the fact that the 2nd Amendment was not designed to give people guns, but to give them the ability to battle the Government if they ever needed, intent is everything when it comes to Rights. People I know that own multiple guns have pistols mostly for home defense, shot guns and long rifles for hunting, and at least (1) assault weapon for fighting the big fight they hope never comes.

Now we are going to pass a law and collect an estimated 350,000,000 weapons from 150,000,000 people of which as many as 70,000,000 are assault weapons. Logistically how are you going to do this, what resources will be used, how long would this take, what do you do with people who have perfect track records that refuse?


Theoretically, if guns were banned and a mandatory collection were to take place, it would have to happen in steps. It would have to start from the top and on down, beginning with the manufactering industry, then the sellers and then collections.

The collections themselves would have to happen in steps as well. Again, starting from the top and on down, beginning with certain types of guns and ammo. Likely a buy back program. Most gun transactions are documented, so the vast majority could be traced and wouldn't take much to collect. If fines and accummulative penalties are in place, the vast majority of legal and responsible law-abiding gun owners would turn theirs in.

Before the gun nuts pile on with their blatant hatred towards me, I stated this as theoretical.

Plook wrote:
Many many logistical questions and don't forget that the assault weapons were purchased and maintained to stop the Government from taking away rights, like the 2nd Amendment...

What say you?

:smoke:


Assault weapons aren't going to stop tanks, helecopter gun ships, fighter jets, cruise misss, armed drones ect ect. As I stated in my last post, thoseo are mots likely to be victims from people with assault weapons are citizens, not the gov't.


As I also stated earlier in this thread, to much hatred, anger and bitterness from the pro-gun crowd, two things...after the assault weapons ban was passed, gun crime rates diminished, after it was allowed to expire, gun crime rates have been steadily climbing....and the gun laws work were they are implemnted and enforced. The states with the strictest laws and lowest gun ownership per captita have lower gun crime rates and accidents per capita, where the states with the weakest laws and highes ownership per capita havehigher gun crime rates ad cidents per capita. Thats the bottom line. No excuses or attempted pro-gun reasoning changes the statistical data into the favor.


I'm sure some of the pro-gun folks here will get defensive and attack me for once again, pointing out the proven factual statistical data.


I'll state here that at one time in my life, I supported full gun owneship...until I had some first hand experiences with people who were incapable of handling the responsibility of legal gun ownership.

The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
OK, cool. Sounds like you agree with training - good.
Japan - Sounds like you are preparing to be invaded. Not a bad thing, but I believe the US to be at least reasonably safe. I choose not to fear attack, nor base civilian gun policy on said fear.
So, what about Traceability? Do you fear the government knowing who has access to extreme weaponry? Personally, I want to know if psychopaths have such weapons and look forward to people being held responsible for owning weapons over time, not just at point-of-purchase. If someone gets checked out of the Mental Ward, I want to know that someone did a check to find out if that guy is going home to a get a gun and take out some agression on percieved enemies.


There have been instances where people on terrorist watch lists and no fly lists of being able to legally obtain firearms.


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