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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:56 am 
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Posts: 22
Hi everyone,

I wasn't driven away, just haven't posted for a while!

My original question (am I wrong?) was a tongue in cheek way of asking whether I liked something that was not necessarily popular amongst other fans. I'm not seeking to argue its correct place in the canon, but was genuinely curious about what other fans thought, especially as I know from the Real FZ Book that he was not fond of the LSO stuff.

One thing that I absolutely love about Zappa's music is that I can hear something I may have heard a dozen times before and suddenly I 'get it', it just fits in where previously it was just not doing it for me. LSO suddenly did that for me, and I listened to it more, hence the post.

Who knows, maybe my next revelation will be with Uncle Meat... :lol:

polydigm wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
Read ChrisPaul's quote again. He is asking if he is wrong to have LSO be his favorite FZ orchestral album. In my book, that's a silly question. Who are we to tell him what his personal tastes/favorites should be? If he likes LSO best, then so be it.
I agree, but only if Chris meant that literally, I think it's just a turn of phrase. You know, the way some people say "Am I right" when others say "You know?" or whatever? It's very easy to take the piss in a loose conversation.
FalseDichotomy wrote:
If people want to discuss why they like/dislike certain songs/albums, I'm all for that.
I believe that's all Chris wanted to do and he was probably driven away by the name calling thing.
FalseDichotomy wrote:
What I dislike is when such discussions degenerate into Trendmongeresque assumptions about composer's intent, etc. This thread started out great, then turned into shit on page three, so I posted my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
That wasn't Chris's fault. It started to degenerate when someone decided to call Balint stupid. I think he eventually made a good account of where he was coming from in spite of an unclear start. If the thread started well and then went a bit awry, why jump in and add to it? Now that you've actually made it clear why you did that it makes much more sense to me and you probably should have said that in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
There you go.

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:07 am 
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ChrisPaul wrote:
Who knows, maybe my next revelation will be with Uncle Meat... :lol:

Maybe this could warm you up to the quasi-baroque surrealism of Uncle Meat --

http://www.amazon.com/The-Zappa-Album/dp/B0043XQ158/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:34 am 
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I too think LSO is a fine album and surely underrated by many fans. Although the rehearsals and recording were unususal and strained, a lot of fine music was made during those sessions. The account of a happy Zappa at the party afterwards is probably true, and it's possible that he believed he had recorded enough to make perfect edits of all the tracks. Only later did he find out that some sections would never be as good as he had envisioned. This is obvious from the notes to the albums, particularly the bitingly acidic comments to Vol. 2 (the LP). During Strictly Genteel the trumpets are way down in the mix in the beginning, which is a compromise, considering that they carry the main melody theme. Of course he couldn't be happy with solutions like that. But still it's a pretty fine sounding record, and there are many classic recordings from the orchestral world with just as many or more mistakes. Leonard Bernstein's own recording of West Side Story comes to mind. It is legendary, but full of audible mistakes from the trumpet section and others.

David Ocker probaly has the most accurate account of what happened during the LSO sessions. His story is well worth reading, if you haven't already --

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andymurkin/Resources/MusicRes/ZapRes/LSO.html

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 152
I don't have a favorite album, just preferred pieces.

Bogus Pomp from Orchestral Favorites
Revised Music... from Studio Tan
Sad Jane from LSO
Perfect Stranger title track
Overture to 200 Motels
Lumpy Gravy... er, maybe I do have a favorite?


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:37 am
Posts: 522
You know.....as much as I love the PERFECT STRANGER and Yellow Shark I'm kind of digging the LSO cd right now...
There's something about the new transfer....
I know it wasn't remastered but the "pacing" and "timing" seems better than the RYKO.
I might be listening through the whiskey but it does sound......"clearer" or something.

They did a hell of a good job recording this stuff originally.
It was one of the very first digitally recorded orchestral albums, was it not?


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Posts: 152
I think the Telarc label had FZ's LSO album beat by several years, but it is a great recording.
I'm happy with my Ryko CDs.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:37 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
I too think LSO is a fine album and surely underrated by many fans. Although the rehearsals and recording were unususal and strained, a lot of fine music was made during those sessions. The account of a happy Zappa at the party afterwards is probably true, and it's possible that he believed he had recorded enough to make perfect edits of all the tracks. Only later did he find out that some sections would never be as good as he had envisioned. This is obvious from the notes to the albums, particularly the bitingly acidic comments to Vol. 2 (the LP). During Strictly Genteel the trumpets are way down in the mix in the beginning, which is a compromise, considering that they carry the main melody theme. Of course he couldn't be happy with solutions like that. But still it's a pretty fine sounding record, and there are many classic recordings from the orchestral world with just as many or more mistakes. Leonard Bernstein's own recording of West Side Story comes to mind. It is legendary, but full of audible mistakes from the trumpet section and others.

David Ocker probaly has the most accurate account of what happened during the LSO sessions. His story is well worth reading, if you haven't already --

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andymurkin/Resources/MusicRes/ZapRes/LSO.html


That was a really interesting story, thanks DC Boogers

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:12 am 
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You're welcome, the nosy drip :smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:29 am 
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There's an old Letterman clip up on YouTube when FZ was a guest plugging the LSO album.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:58 am 
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It's a shame you can't get a lot of the original, treated mix of these sessions on CD (to date, I've not been a vinyl listener). I appreciate the general consensus appears to be that the 'remix' is preferred, but, regardless of that, and/or whether I'd, myself, feel the same, I'd like to hear it in this form too.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Location: Texas (Lido Hotel)
I'm in love with Sad Jane.

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Posts: 68
I need to listen to this one more. I've probably only listened to it 3 times my entire life.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:06 am 
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Location: Austin, TX (wherever I am)
Can anyone comment on the sound of the original Vol. 1 LP?

I am familiar with the Vol. 2 LP and, compared to both LSO CDs, I find very little to recommend it.

However, I have heard some good things about the Vol. 1 LP, but don't know if it is that much better than the original (1986) CD for "Sad Jane" and "Mo & Herb's Vacation". Also, I haven't heard the original mixes of "Pedro's Dowry" or "Envelopes", so I don't know if they are all that much better than the mixes on the current (1995) CD.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:59 am 
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I'd like to help, but although I have the LSO 1 LP I've never heard the CDs.


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:39 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Almost all of FZ's classical/orchestral/chamber music is enjoyable to me. But The Yellow Shark takes the cake. Outrage At Valdez is perfection. And the re-arrangements of The Dog Breath Variations & Uncle Meat are extraordinary. And as others have pointed out, The Ensemble Modern liked his music enough to want to perform it well, unlike the indifferent attitude of most other orchestras he worked with...


As soon as I heard DOG/MEAT I knew I was in for something truly special. It sounds perfect to me and I prefer it to UM.
I really need to listen to LSO 1 & 2. I just remember him saying he edited the albums so much that it is only 70% accurate to what it should be and it put me off. He was honest though and very annoyed with how much The LSO didn't care about what they did.

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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:11 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
As soon as I heard DOG/MEAT I knew I was in for something truly special. It sounds perfect to me and I prefer it to UM.

It's interesting to read that, I'll check that carefully later - I've always thought of the Yellow Shark version (Dog/Meat) as my least favorite, as the worst. Okay, it doesn't mean that it is that bad, but somehow it lacks all the liveliness I experience in all the other versions. To me the trumpets are not very clear and accurate, the orchestra seems to be too big and somehow "lazy" for this tune, closing my eyes all I can see is "serious people looking at scores". It was just a week ago that I felt like listenning to Uncle Meat and the opening of the album just blew me: full of life, the richness of the texture... I loved it - just as I love the '74 version, the version from 1973 with the long opening (Sydney), etc. But the Yellow Shark version is just something I rarely think of. (On that album my favorites are the really new tunes: Get Whitey, Outrage at Valdez [uhh... it seems I only have 2 favorites?...:-) ] - but playing-wise the LSO always sounded much-much better to me...)


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 Post subject: Re: LSO
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:03 pm 
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To me it just sounds oh so rousing and the percussion is great. I would say the Dog Breath part is much better. Listening to it at the kitchen at work it always gets me in a great mood. BUT I am not as familiar with UM as I am with YS and may just be more used to it.

Check it out again.

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