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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:25 pm 
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33 pages of debate. 0 minds changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:40 am 
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Quoted from another thread...

MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
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Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

Jason Clayworth, The Des Moines Register 1 a.m. EDT September 8, 2013

No one questions the legality of the permits, but some officials worry about public safety.


DES MOINES, Iowa -- Here's some news that has law enforcement officials and lawmakers scratching their heads:

Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind.

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it's a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.

On one side: People such as Cedar County Sheriff Warren Wethington, who demonstrated for The Des Moines Register how blind people can be taught to shoot guns. And Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. That federal law generally prohibits different treatment based on disabilities

On the other side: People such as Dubuque County Sheriff Don Vrotsos, who said he wouldn't issue a permit to someone who is blind. And Patrick Clancy, superintendent of the Iowa Braille and Sight Saving School, who says guns may be a rare exception to his philosophy that blind people can participate fully in life.

Private gun ownership — even hunting — by visually impaired Iowans is nothing new. But the practice of visually impaired residents legally carrying firearms in public became widely possible thanks to gun permit changes that took effect in Iowa in 2011.

"It seems a little strange, but the way the law reads we can't deny them (a permit) just based on that one thing," said Sgt. Jana Abens, a spokeswoman for the Polk County Sheriff's Department, referring to a visual disability.

Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes



It never ceases to amaze how willingly so many people compromise common sense and wisdom on behalf and for the benefit of higher profit margins for those in the gun industry and membership dues paid to advocacy groups who are laughing all the way to the bank. Whether it's through higher taxes for police protection, higher insurance and medical costs relating to and/or just being shot by some gun wielding wacko and/or irresponsible idiot, I shouldn't be forced to have to pay for your stupid fucking hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Some people would also claim that spewage from feeble minded distortion advocates like you , that have sub educational delusions , also cost taxpayers money.

Primarily in the re education of idiots like you.

States like Colorado are looking for stooges like you.

:P

One quick question assbro , do you like the gang mentality ?
I would assume that it doesn't bother you a bit since you haven't posted anything about the rampant gun violence from gangs in all your posts.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:25 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
One quick question assbro , do you like the gang mentality ?
I would assume that it doesn't bother you a bit since you haven't posted anything about the rampant gun violence from gangs in all your posts.

:roll:

I'll do it. Gangs use guns to kill each other, and that's bad. Whew, I'm all verklempt now. WTF Pedro?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:36 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
33 pages of debate. 0 minds changed.

No one ever changes his/her mind. The only way minds ever get changed is through personal experience, not argument. If some guy intervened and shot someone who was brutally attacking me, I might possibly change my mind. Or, if some pro-gun person became a quadraplegic because a severely mentally ill dude with an automatic weapon went to town on him, he might change his mind too. Stands to reason. But the minds they aren't a changin' on an internet forum, that's for sure.

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Last edited by Ronny's Noomies on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:54 pm 
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As far as the gun industry and their advocacy groups who collect due's are concerned, gang members are regular customers. That's why the industry and the NRA would rather arm terrorists than make it harder for them to get armed.

It's painfully obvious that a person lacks wisdom and common sense, who would make a statement like "come to a few neighborhoods in my town and we'll see just how many gun barrels fit into your mouth", would resort to name calling, personal attacks and make threats. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:08 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
33 pages of debate. 0 minds changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:00 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
As far as the gun industry and their advocacy groups who collect due's are concerned, gang members are regular customers. That's why the industry and the NRA would rather arm terrorists than make it harder for them to get armed.


Gang members don't get their weapons from gun advocacy groups , nor do they belong to the NRA , you fucking simpleton.
Gang members are not ' regular customers' and I doubt any of them pay ' dues ' to either group.
What the fuck world do you live in ?

Ronny's Noomies wrote:
I'll do it. Gangs use guns to kill each other, and that's bad. Whew, I'm all verklempt now. WTF Pedro?


And that's exactly my point , Noomis. You two idiots want to ban every fucking gun that a LEGAL gun owner holds , but you don't say jack shit about the ILLEGAL activity. Proof of your lame thinking is in the statements your space brother made. You two beat the dead horse back alive and never say anything about the criminal aspect of ILLEGAL gun ownership. I don't have the stats for this ( I'll bet they are easily found ) , but I bet that only about 3% of LEGAL gun ownership is correlated with criminal activity , while probably 93% of crime can be associated with ILLEGAL gun ownership.
Why is all your vile projected at just LEGAL gun ownership and why do you feel the need to restrict even more with more governmental control ??

Prove me wrong and I'll give you a public apology. But until then , you two dipsticks are fast becoming advocates for the DUMBEST downed population group.


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
It's painfully obvious that a person lacks wisdom and common sense, who would make a statement like "come to a few neighborhoods in my town and we'll see just how many gun barrels fit into your mouth", would resort to name calling, personal attacks and make threats. :roll:



Like I said before , asshole. I never personally threatened you in any way and you really need to grow a pair.
I stand by that statement above and as far as name calling , I call them as I see them .
As far as personal attacks from you two ? Gimme a fuckin' break . :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Today's fun fact:
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Ronald Reagan was left handed...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:39 pm 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Today's fun fact:
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Ronald Reagan was left handed...

...and under handed too! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:04 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
And that's exactly my point , Noomis. You two idiots want to ban every fucking gun that a LEGAL gun owner holds , but you don't say jack shit about the ILLEGAL activity. Proof of your lame thinking is in the statements your space brother made. You two beat the dead horse back alive and never say anything about the criminal aspect of ILLEGAL gun ownership. I don't have the stats for this ( I'll bet they are easily found ) , but I bet that only about 3% of LEGAL gun ownership is correlated with criminal activity , while probably 93% of crime can be associated with ILLEGAL gun ownership.
Why is all your vile projected at just LEGAL gun ownership and why do you feel the need to restrict even more with more governmental control ??

Prove me wrong and I'll give you a public apology. But until then , you two dipsticks are fast becoming advocates for the DUMBEST downed population group.:
This is why I don't engage with you any more Pedro. Do you remember that I'm not a huge anti-gun guy? Certainly less than SB. Stereotyping people works for you I guess.

Last spring I said this: I must be pretty boring; I think guns should be legal but tracked as much as is feasible. So I'm for law enforcement keeping gun registries...

I also said this: SB and I are different people, with different ideas. There's a large array of lefties, just like conservatives.....I want one law passed, and that's a criminal background check at purchase point, with oversight to make sure the checks actually happen....

I'm not the guy you think I am, I keep telling you. I'm not an absolutist about this issue, like both you and SB seem to be. I don't even visit this thread all that often. How can anyone have a basic conversation with you when you simply DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS TO YOU?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:10 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Gang members don't get their weapons from gun advocacy groups , nor do they belong to the NRA , you fucking simpleton.

Where and when exactly did I say that they did? :roll:
pedro2 wrote:
Gang members are not ' regular customers' and I doubt any of them pay ' dues ' to either group.

Again, where and when did I say that they do? :roll: ...and yes, they are regular customers. Where else will they get the ammo. Are you going to claim that gang members who own guns make their own ammo?
pedro2 wrote:
What the fuck world do you live in ?

The same one you live in. :roll:

pedro2 wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
I'll do it. Gangs use guns to kill each other, and that's bad. Whew, I'm all verklempt now. WTF Pedro?


And that's exactly my point , Noomis. You two idiots want to ban every fucking gun that a LEGAL gun owner holds , but you don't say jack shit about the ILLEGAL activity. Proof of your lame thinking is in the statements your space brother made. You two beat the dead horse back alive and never say anything about the criminal aspect of ILLEGAL gun ownership. I don't have the stats for this ( I'll bet they are easily found ) , but I bet that only about 3% of LEGAL gun ownership is correlated with criminal activity , while probably 93% of crime can be associated with ILLEGAL gun ownership.
Why is all your vile projected at just LEGAL gun ownership and why do you feel the need to restrict even more with more governmental control ??

Prove me wrong and I'll give you a public apology. But until then , you two dipsticks are fast becoming advocates for the DUMBEST downed population group.
can't and won't speak for RN, but I can state that not all gun deaths are caused by criminals (or gang members as you bring up) committing crimes. Not even half...in fact...

*In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.
*73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.
*Firearms were the third-leading cause of injury-related deaths nationwide in 2010, following poisoning and motor vehicle accidents.
*Guns were used in 11,078 homicides in the U.S. in 2010, comprising almost 35% of all gun deaths, and over 68% of all homicides.
*Firearms were used in 19,392 suicides in the U.S. in 2010, constituting almost 62% of all gun deaths...
*More than 75% of guns used in suicide attempts and unintentional injuries of 0-19 year-olds were stored in the residence of the victim, a relative, or a friend.
*People of all age groups are significantly more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries when they live in states with more guns per capita, relative to states with fewer guns per capita.
*On average, states with the highest gun levels had nine times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states with the lowest gun levels.
*A federal government study of unintentional shootings found that 8% of such shooting deaths resulted from shots fired by children under the age of six


Consider yourself proven wrong. Your numbers are way off. Feel free to apologize.


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
It's painfully obvious that a person lacks wisdom and common sense, who would make a statement like "come to a few neighborhoods in my town and we'll see just how many gun barrels fit into your mouth", would resort to name calling, personal attacks and make threats. :roll:



pedro2 wrote:
Like I said before , asshole. I never personally threatened you in any way and you really need to grow a pair.
I stand by that statement above
You stand behind your statement that you will stick a gun in my mouth if I show up in your town? Wow.

pedro2 wrote:
and as far as name calling , I call them as I see them .
The last refuge of a failure to have a civil discussion about a serious issue.
pedro2 wrote:
As far as personal attacks from you two ? Gimme a fuckin' break . :roll:



You may, or may never accept the statistical facts that are proven beyond any and all reasonable doubt by multiple sources because of what you have been programmed to believe. Feel free to make that public apology anytime, that is if you are a man of honor.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:46 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
33 pages of debate. 0 minds changed.

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Actually I did change my mind at least on one aspect of this question. I did find the argument on the practicality of disarming a whole load of armed Americans quite convincing and it made me rethink my own position somewhat.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:21 pm 
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I've come to the painful realization that this is not a forum for debate , but rather a clique of like mined individuals that like to prey on others.

Take for instance the Nommis guy. Doesn't matter who I respond to on the forum , Ron/Ronnie/Ronald always has to chime in.

Then take this Spaced out guy who seems to think threats are made to him out of thin air , when no such thing ever occurred.

Yep , I've figured out that this really isn't a place for me. I think I'll leave it to the fools .

It's all yours , have fun children.

Oh wait , I do have to offer an apology it seems.

To the parents and family of Nomis and Space Ass ... I am truly sorry. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:16 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
33 pages of debate. 0 minds changed.

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And nobody wasted that is a miracle :mrgreen:

You dig :P

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Groovy Cleon. Groovy!

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:55 pm 
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All You Need Is Guns

There's no one you can shoot that can't be shot
there's no one you can buy that can't be bought
there's nothing to be told once you've shot 'em full of holes
it's easy

there's no one you can kill who will not die
there's no one you can grill who will not fry
there's nothing left to prove, if your piece is oiled smooth
it's greasy

all you need is guns
all you need is guns
all you need is guns guns
guns is all you need



Mydnyte Music 2013





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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Nice DM. :lol:


Happiness is a warm...yes it is... gun a un. Don't you know that happiness is a warm gun momma! :|

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:18 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
I've come to the painful realization that this is not a forum for debate , but rather a clique of like mined individuals that like to prey on others.

Take for instance the Nommis guy. Doesn't matter who I respond to on the forum , Ron/Ronnie/Ronald always has to chime in.

Then take this Spaced out guy who seems to think threats are made to him out of thin air , when no such thing ever occurred.

Yep , I've figured out that this really isn't a place for me. I think I'll leave it to the fools .

It's all yours , have fun children.

Oh wait , I do have to offer an apology it seems.

To the parents and family of Nomis and Space Ass ... I am truly sorry. :cry:

Are you being serious? Are you leaving? Dare I hope that it's true?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
pedro2 wrote:
I've come to the painful realization that this is not a forum for debate , but rather a clique of like mined individuals that like to prey on others.

Take for instance the Nommis guy. Doesn't matter who I respond to on the forum , Ron/Ronnie/Ronald always has to chime in.

Then take this Spaced out guy who seems to think threats are made to him out of thin air , when no such thing ever occurred.

Yep , I've figured out that this really isn't a place for me. I think I'll leave it to the fools .

It's all yours , have fun children.

Oh wait , I do have to offer an apology it seems.

To the parents and family of Nomis and Space Ass ... I am truly sorry. :cry:

Are you being serious? Are you leaving? Dare I hope that it's true?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Your making it the place, not to be for you. Don't rationalize it and blame the forum. Grow some and at least hang around. This announcing "I'm leaving" sounds like your taking your Tonka Toys and going home because we don't play with them like you want us to! :roll:
I still love ya man! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:40 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Oh wait , I do have to offer an apology it seems.

To the parents and family of Nomis and Space Ass ... I am truly sorry. :cry:

My parents, rest their souls, were quite proud of me, even though they were staunch conservatives. I'm crazy about my wife and son. He is, after 17 years of good upbringing, going off to school next year . I have a great life and someone like you can't even touch me.

Did you leave yet? Hope so. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:25 pm 
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This is why I hate these discussions. I understand about getting your point across, but when it ends like this it sucks. I like most everybody that engage in these, Noomies, DB, Spacebrother, rope, downer, pedro. If discussions can't be adult, intelligent affairs that doesn't make people hate each other at the end of the day, then what good are they?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:15 pm 
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I do wish Pedro2 would continue posting as I am interested in his point of view, even though I don't necessarily agree with it, as indeed I am in the opinions of all the people Calvin names above.
I still see the problem in the fact when discussion (an exchange of views in which one points out arguments/evidence of which the others are possibly unaware) often develops into debate (a competition that is to be won; basically what those nerdy debating clubs were for at school). The latter all too often descends into personal insult concerning someone's mental state, or, at it's worst their background or family.
I can enjoy a good slanging match if it is amusing. If it just turns into straight abuse, I think it's only socially redeeming value would appear to be as a vent for the participants.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:44 am 
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Cal, I imagine you meant well with your post, but other than that you make it look like you are giving credence to pedro's assertion that Ronnys is stalking him. Ronnys spars politically as does pedro himself, so if pedro wants to cry about that, then boo hoo. Pedro is fully capable of taking care of himself and never one to hold back, so if he wants to leave, that's on him. It is in no way indicative of anything relative to the behavior of anyone else on this forum. I would be disappointed if a single forum member changed in any way in response to pedro leaving.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:41 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Cal, I imagine you meant well with your post, but other than that you make it look like you are giving credence to pedro's assertion that Ronnys is stalking him. Ronnys spars politically as does pedro himself, so if pedro wants to cry about that, then boo hoo. Pedro is fully capable of taking care of himself and never one to hold back, so if he wants to leave, that's on him. It is in no way indicative of anything relative to the behavior of anyone else on this forum. I would be disappointed if a single forum member changed in any way in response to pedro leaving.


I didn't even read either's replies here in any depth. You don't have to write a dissertation on each post to know that there's not much actual debating going on. And I don't care to take sides. If that's what is "inferred" by what I posted, that's wasn't my aim.

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