Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:13 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1270 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 ... 51  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 174
Bullies can be remarkably adept at playing the victim, too. Even unto the Houses of legislation.

Pedro and anybody else, may not be aware they do it even while completely denying it. And that can be tragic.
For them and their loved ones especially.
But misery loves company and unfortunately, playing/being the victim can hurt so much, people feel the need to share that too.
Shared victimhood spreads fear. And that fear is a tool for controlling people.
Fear leads to hatred, etc.

For example, in Colorado last week, recall elections threw out a couple state legislators, including the leader of the Dem party in the state.
They were specifically targeted because of their prior votes putting some restrictions on amounts of ammunition and a couple other small measures endorsed by law enforcement with regards to guns and their use in the state.
In the lead up, proponents of the recall drives were taped explaining to their followers that what they needed to generate was fear, a 'wave of fear' to start in Colorado but spread thru-out the country to any legislator that might think of voting on gun regulations in their state.
It was on Rachel Maddow this week. She does play both the victim and the bully, but manages to quash this 'wave of fear' by revealing it to a wider audience. At least she doesn't make shit up. It's also real difficult to misinterpret what's being said.
The tape starts at 9:40 in this video, the story starts at 2-3 minutes into this clip.

Since these recalls happen nowadays more frequently with lots of outside $$ too, these off-year elections seem especially significant.
If more people were informed, and saw reasonable discussion of the issues, I believe, more people would vote. If more voted, more would be able to vote. More voters, more civic engagement which leads to more awareness of what's actually going on, rather than reflections/reactons of fevered dreams of some people's fear. For example, "Noun-Verb-Benghazi!"
If more people were aware of how this work, they might see, for one, just how money corrupts the process of government and might vote to do something about it. But if they don't they will become even less civically engaged and more cynical, apathetic. And more fearful.

Make sure you can Register. So you can make sure to Vote.

_________________
"... gonna jump outta the subcommittee and get ya!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3042
Location: Between the Badges
calvin2hikers wrote:
I didn't even read either's replies here in any depth. You don't have to write a dissertation on each post to know that there's not much actual debating going on. And I don't care to take sides. If that's what is "inferred" by what I posted, that's wasn't my aim.

I see you post this perspective alot. You imply that if only we were able to actually solve the Gun Debate or whatever the topic is at the time, then it would be ok to fight about it. But, since this is alot of hot air and no world peace, then its a waste of time. I entirely disagree. If this is how people work out their opinions, such as they are, then so be it.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 14859
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
I didn't even read either's replies here in any depth. You don't have to write a dissertation on each post to know that there's not much actual debating going on. And I don't care to take sides. If that's what is "inferred" by what I posted, that's wasn't my aim.

I see you post this perspective alot. You imply that if only we were able to actually solve the Gun Debate or whatever the topic is at the time, then it would be ok to fight about it. But, since this is alot of hot air and no world peace, then its a waste of time. I entirely disagree. If this is how people work out their opinions, such as they are, then so be it.


Okay Arkay, you've misinterpreted what I said twice, so I won't say anymore.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3042
Location: Between the Badges
Misinterpreted? I have an opinion as do you. That's no big deal.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 8106
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Firearm Link
Researchers in the United States say they have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide. Their study, published yesterday in the American Journal of Public Health, challanges the National Rifle Association's claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate rose by 0.9 percent. The study which was led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
At least 12 killed in shooting rampage at Washington Navy Yard, chief says

A man brandishing an assault rifle, shotgun and handgun opened fire Monday inside a building at the Washington Navy Yard. The city police chief said 12 people were killed.
...
The rampage was the deadliest mass shooting in the United States since the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., last December, and the worst at a military installation since 13 people were killed at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2009.

The number of injured was not clear.
...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09 ... -says?lite

May the victims families, friends and co-workers find comfort in this time of tragedy.

Shameful that as a result of this, that the gun industry and their advocacy groups are going to laugh all the way to the bank and make bigger profits on the blood of these people, just like they did with all of those children at Newtown, enlisted at Fort Hood, civilians at Aurora, kids at Columbine and every other mass shooting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3042
Location: Between the Badges
I was listening to a radio show earlier today and heard a great quote. I can't remember the exact wording, though I wish I could, but the guest said something like:

Don't fight the NRA. The NRA has deep pockets and wants you to fight them. No matter how well you state your case, the NRA knows how to turn it around so they can point to you and tell their base: "See, we aren't paranoid. They are coming after us! Write a check, please."

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
Guns make people crazy...

2 Michigan drivers dead after road rage shooting

Police say two motorists are dead following a road-rage-fueled shooting at a car wash in Ionia.

The Sentinel-Standard of Ionia reports a 43-year-old man and a 56-year-old man pulled their vehicles into the driveway of the Wonder Wand Car Wash about 7 p.m. Wednesday and exchanged gunfire with handguns.
...
The victims have been identified as 56-year-old Robert Taylor and 43-year-old James Pullum. Both of the dead men are from Ionia, about 30 miles northwest of Lansing.

Police say the shooting stemmed from an earlier confrontation while they were driving in the area.

Investigators say both men had valid licenses to carry concealed weapons...

http://www.freep.com/article/20130919/N ... e-shooting


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3529
I haven't looked closely at this information but it seems it needs posting here pronto:

Calling For A Data-Driven Approach To Gun Violence
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/c ... n-violence

did anyone else see the recent study on how educated people suddenly have "bad math" skills when they are confronted with statistics/data they don't like? I can't fnd the article now...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
brainpang wrote:
I haven't looked closely at this information but it seems it needs posting here pronto:

Calling For A Data-Driven Approach To Gun Violence
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/c ... n-violence

did anyone else see the recent study on how educated people suddenly have "bad math" skills when they are confronted with statistics/data they don't like? I can't fnd the article now...


I don't know about the educated part, but the "bad math" skills fits a certain poster here who is an outspoken Libertarian supposedly from Canada who is currently fighting with several people over the merits (or lack-there-of) the band U2.


The main data to pay attention to is and always will be that the places with highest numbers of guns owned per capita and the highest crime rates per capita.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:37 pm
Posts: 338
Image

_________________
Banned
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/banned


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
Image

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm
Posts: 5692
Location: echoing through the canyons of your mind
Another senseless school shooting that was avoidable...

Nevada school shooting shows limits of security

Another school. Another firearm. Another shooter. In this case, a shooter too young even to be called a gunman. The result, unfortunately, is yet another senseless episode of gunshot injuries and death.

On Monday morning, just before the start of classes at the middle school in Sparks, Nev., a 12-year-old boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two fellow students, also both 12, before turning the gun on himself. The teacher, identified as Michael Landsberry, has been called a hero for his valiant attempt to convince the armed youngster to surrender.

The specific location of the shooting spree — on the playground within the school's campus — points out the limitations of many of the security-minded proposals that have been debated in the months since last year's Newtown, Conn., elementary school massacre. No form of access control — be it a metal detector, school ID cards, or locked doors and windows — is sufficient to protect the lives of innocent children and staff members. No threat of armed resistance, such as a school resource officer or teachers with loaded guns in their desk drawers, can deter this type of senseless violence.

In January, the National Rifle Association, hoping to deflect criticism as well as efforts to tighten gun control laws, promoted a "more guns" national strategy for school safety. The so-called "School Shield Program" would furnish every school in America, regardless of size or grade level, with trained sharpshooters. In subsequent months, lawmakers in as many as six states have sponsored legislation to arm school teachers and train them to shoot. A new South Dakota law, for example, created "school sentinels" — teachers, administrators, security guards and even volunteers from the community — empowered to carry guns inside of schools to protect the student population.

But what about the ball fields and playgrounds, like the one on the Sparks Middle School campus where Monday's shooting occurred? Are we going to arm gym teachers and referees in case some student gets out of hand? And what about the fleets of yellow school buses? Are we to equip bus drivers with licenses to kill on sight?

This past weekend also witnessed another tragic accident involving a firearm. In Fayetteville, N.C., a two-year-old girl found her father's loaded .22-caliber pistol under the living room couch and shot herself with the newly discovered shiny "toy."...

...In both the Sparks and Fayetteville shootings, the guns belonged to a parent. The only solution to tragedies such as these is to require "smart gun" technology so that it is not possible for an adolescent, child, or toddler to have unauthorized access to a loaded firearm — that is, anyone but the properly licensed and sufficiently trained gun owner. We must close the "beg, borrow or steal" loophole, whereby immature, trigger-happy minors acquire dangerous weapons from irresponsible adults. Too many bad things can happen when handguns get into the wrong hands.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... s/3148421/


There are no more valid excuses or arguments left for gun owners, the businesses that manufacture and sell them and the advocacy groups that promote them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:44 am
Posts: 28
Too many Darwin awards to be won, don't restrict firearms!!! Seriously, that there is no gun control in the US is beyond me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 3409
Location: St-Hyacinthe, Québec, Canada
Oh yeah, that Second Amendent !

A 250 years old paper for those who are still 250 years back in their head. :roll:

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 8106
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Jury convicts Dunn of attempted murder

A Florida jury has convicted a white, middle-aged man of three counts of attempted murder for opening fire on a car of black teenagers during an argument over loud rap music, but could not reach a verdict on a murder charge for the killing of a 17-year-old in the car.

Michael Dunn, a 47-year-old software engineer, fired 10 rounds at a vehicle carrying four teens in a Jacksonville gas station parking lot in November 2012, killing black teen Jordan Davis.

The jury deadlocked on the most serious charge of first-degree murder against Dunn, forcing Judge Russell Healey to declare a mistrial on that count.

The failure to reach a verdict on the first-degree murder charge is a blow for the prosecution and the Davis family. But Dunn still faces at least 60 years in jail for the attempted murder convictions against the three other teens, legal analysts said.

Prosecutors told a press conference after the verdicts were read that they plan to retry Dunn, who has been in jail since his arrest in 2012, on the first-degree murder charge.

The jury also found Dunn guilty on a fifth count of firing into an occupied vehicle.

The trial has drawn international attention because of racial overtones and Dunn’s claims of self-defence.

The case has drawn comparisons to the self-defense trial of George Zimmerman, the former central Florida neighbourhood watch volunteer who was acquitted last year of murder in the shooting of an unarmed, black 17-year-old, Trayvon Martin.

Attorney Cory Strolla said Dunn and his family are devastated by the four guilty verdicts. ‘‘He never saw it coming, not one bit,’’ Strolla said.

Dunn, who had no prior convictions, testified earlier this week that he began shooting in a state of panic after he thought he saw the barrel of a gun in the back window as Davis started to get out of the car.

Prosecutors said Davis, who had no arrest record, had used foul language when confronting Dunn after the argument broke out, but was unarmed and never posed a physical threat.

‘‘The self-defence argument made some headway. The jury, or some of them, believed he saw a muzzle of a gun,’’ said David Weinstein, a former state prosecutor, now in private practice in Miami.

Mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines in Florida for crimes committed with a gun mean that Dunn faces 20 years for each of the three counts of his conviction.

‘‘It has been a long, long road and we’re so very happy to have just a little bit of closure,’’ Davis’ teary mother, Lucy McBath, told reporters. ‘‘It’s sad for Mr. Dunn that he will live the rest of his life in that sense of torment. I will pray for him,’’ she said.

‘‘But we are so grateful for the charges that have been brought against him, we are so grateful for the truth, we are so grateful that the jurors were able to understand the common sense of it all,’’ she added.

Ad Feedback ‘‘(Teenagers) shouldn’t have to worry about walking around, worrying about if someone has a problem with them,’’ said Davis’ father, Ron Davis.

‘‘We don’t accept a law that would allow our children to be regarded as collateral damage.’’

THE FINAL THREE BULLETS

Earlier on Saturday, the judge said questions posed by the 12-member jury indicated they thought Dunn was initially justified in firing the first seven bullets to defend himself from Davis, but then went too far by continuing to pull the trigger as the fleeing teens drove off.

The judge speculated that jurors felt Dunn overstepped the limits of self-defence law by shooting a final volley of three bullets after he got out of his car, when the teens no longer represented any kind of threat.

‘‘They may say justifiable use of deadly force was in play to (a) certain point and then it went away. There was no justification for those last set of shots,’’ the judge said.

Critics of US gun laws were quick to react on Saturday.

‘‘The jury did their very best but they were hamstrung by Florida’s Stand Your Ground law,’’ said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a non-profit group created in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012.

‘The law basically legalises armed vigilantes,’’ Watts said.

Florida’s Stand Your Ground law allows persons who believe they are in imminent danger of serious bodily injury to use deadly force to defend themselves, even if, despite their subjective belief, no real threat exists.

‘‘A person in that position doesn’t have to see something (an actual weapon), but there has to be reasonable fear. That’s the way Florida law reads,’’ said State Attorney Angela Corey after the verdict.

Since Florida passed its law in 2005, more than half the states have passed similar laws with the backing of the gun lobby.

‘‘The mistrial further sends a chilling effect to parents in the 23 states that have the Stand Your Ground law or laws similar,’’ said civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton, president of the National Action Network.

‘‘It requires the Civil Rights community to head into Florida, which is now ground zero for a national fight to change that law,’’ he added.

The sequestered jury of eight whites, two blacks, one Asian and one Hispanic, began deliberating on Wednesday afternoon after a week of testimony and spent more than 30 hours trying to reach a verdict.

- Reuters


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 3409
Location: St-Hyacinthe, Québec, Canada
Guns, racial issues, shooting, young black kid dead...
Nothing new.
Wonder if that would have happened if the car was loaded with white teenagers ?

Still the same stupid idea of giving guns right to anyone, morons included, giving the same stupid result.
The rest of the World watching Americans killing Americans.
Some applausing.

Only in America, someone said...

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:18 pm
Posts: 512
Location: Over there! (last)
Mij wrote:
Only in America, someone said...

Image

_________________
Image Nothing is permanent but change.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 3409
Location: St-Hyacinthe, Québec, Canada
I was refering to Mr. Zappa
But anyway, I didn't know about Mr. Smirnoff.
I googled him and found out he's a funny guy !

I'm always in for a funny time, thanks ! 8)

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 8106
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Hungry, need a gun and a religious top up?, well you're in luck

Churches Give Guns As Prizes
Baptist churches in Kentucky are giving away guns as prizes in the southern US state in hopes of drawing wayward locals to Christ. Lone Oak First Baptist Church is hosting the next "faith and firearms" event on Thursday and has invited the townsfolk of Paducah to come by for a free steak dinner and a chance to win one of 25 handguns, long guns and shotguns which have been donated as prizes. The purpose is to "point people to Christ" while also celebrating gun rights and the great outdoors, the church said. Preacher Chuck quick draw McAlister - who once hosted a popular hunting show and is a member of the Kentucky Baptist Convention's executive team - will be the guest speaker.

So bring your whole god damn family down to 3601 Lone Oak Road, Paducah on Thursday, oh and don't forget your Kevlar.....Ol' quick draws mighty jumpy these days...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 3409
Location: St-Hyacinthe, Québec, Canada
Church, guns and steak ?!
Only in America for sure !

Will the preacher misquote the old standard Chist's words ?
"Those who live by the guns..."

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 1334
Location: Huntingdon, TN
Try living with these Southern Baptists. I have to listen to the shit they spew every day. :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 4756
Location: in deepest, darkest Germany
Those Baptist priest are probably using Apocryphical books of the Bible. Here some recently discovered excerpts...

"And Jesus wandered out of the Gardens of Gethsemane with a Luger and did shoot off a few rounds in frustration and there was much rejoicing."

"And Lo! Moses came down from the mountain to find the followers of Aaron worshipping a golden calf. So he shot a whole bunch of the fuckers with his Kalashnikov."

"Daniel found himself amongst the lions and was thus much afeared. But the Lord's holy bazooka did smite them verily."

"Noah grew tired of the floods after 40 days and 40 nights and shotteth the raven, shotteth the dove and shotteth a hole in the Ark. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth."

""My God, my God; why hast thou foresaken me?" cried the Lord and put himself out of his misery with a quick blast from the Beretta, clenched between his divine teeth, into the holy testicles.

_________________
"I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2233
I can do everything through Him who gives me a gun.

In the beginning God created the heavens, the earth and guns.

For it is by guns you have been saved —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many guns in this city.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gun Control?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 14859
Homer Simpson: "When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power... like God must feel when he's holding a gun."

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1270 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 ... 51  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group